Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[Miranda Yardley]

You're invalidating people's experiences on a two-for-one special here. Firstly by denying that gender transition is real

Not really. I did a video debate with Rya Jones on whether gender transition could be achieved, my point was that males attain only a thin understanding of women's culture and it's the thick cultural ideas that shape what it is to be a woman. Much of the transgender argument is less about what it is to be a woman, and more about what it is to be a man.

and also by implying that people who transition and become 'officially' female weren't, in truth, female all along.

Well, clearly they were not! Unless you're going to argue that, for example, Kellie Maloney and Caitlyn Jenner were female while they were fathering their children...

 

[Pickman's model]

Please explain where I have got this wrong.

i can explain it to you but i cannot understand it for you

 

[SpookyFrank]

Not really. I did a video debate with Rya Jones on whether gender transition could be achieved, my point was that males attain only a thin understanding of women's culture and it's the thick cultural ideas that shape what it is to be a woman. Much of the transgender argument is less about what it is to be a woman, and more about what it is to be a man.



Well, clearly they were not! Unless you're going to argue that, for example, Kellie Maloney and Caitlyn Jenner were female while they were fathering their children...

Well I don't know. You'd have to ask someone who has experienced transition. And when you do, maybe don't open by telling them that you've already decided that they're full of shit.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

The answer to that, at least in present-day UK law, is apparently, 'by making it needlessly difficult for people to change their legally recognised gender'.

It's not difficult at all. Are you actually familiar with this process???

The process for which, as noted elsewhere, is dependant upon the entirely subjective judgements of entirely subjective humans based on an entirely arbitrary set of characteristics for 'male' and 'female'.

Reproductive class makes females distinguishable from males. How is it arbitrary to classify humans or other mammals in this way?

 

[Miranda Yardley]

i can explain it to you but i cannot understand it for you

Go ahead, please explain. I think you're bluffing.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

Well I don't know. You'd have to ask someone who has experienced transition. And when you do, maybe don't open by telling them that you've already decided that they're full of shit.

I've experienced transition first hand, and know and have known many many people who have done the same.

 

[TopCat]

Interesting use of the word 'bigot'. Like it or not, Blanchard's typology reflects reality more than any other theory about transsexualism or transgender identity.



This is a DIRECT QUOTE from the study. It's neither taken out of context nor cherry-picked.

Second, regarding any crime, male-to-females had a significantly increased risk for crime compared to female controls (aHR 6.6; 95% CI 4.1–10.8) but not compared to males (aHR 0.8; 95% CI 0.5–1.2). This indicates that they retained a male pattern regarding criminality. The same was true regarding violent crime.​

Who is claiming this is essential to male identity? Do you have something against males?

Self hating liberal man.

 

[SpookyFrank]

What does "invalidating people's experiences" actually mean? Is it just an IDpol way of saying disagreeing with someone? Am I 'invalidating a christian's experience' by saying I don't believe in God?

It's not just a disagreement. Telling people that they're not who they say they are is invalidating them as people, and it has nothing to do with their beliefs or opinions or actions. I disagree with Miranda Yardley on possibly 80% of all known fields of human understanding, but I have not suggested that Miranda Yardley is anything other than Miranda Yardley, or that Miranda Yardley's beliefs as expressed here are not genuine.

 

[Pickman's model]

Go ahead, please explain. I think you're bluffing.

i have explained it.

every quote is by definition selective -> cherry-picked. this isn't rocket science, it's not even fucking arithmetick, but it's beyond you.

 

[bimble]

..implying that people who transition and become 'officially' female weren't, in truth, female all along.

What does this bit mean ? Are you saying that someone who transitions and now identifies as female was in fact female from the moment they were born? That seems ..quite extreme. There's a bit in the netflix show 'transparent' where the main character (MtF who transitions in later life) sends all their childhood photographs off to be re-gendered so that they get a whole album of pictures showing a parallel childhood, an alternate reality where they got to grow up as a girl with long hair etc. That's fiction though.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I've experienced transition first hand, and know and have known many many people who have done the same.

But you just said transition isn't a real thing. So what was it you and your friends experienced?

 

[Red Cat]

If we cannot define 'gender identity' how can we protect it in law?

Have you read this?

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10481889909539349?journalCode=hpsd20

Why post a link to an abstract in a journal of a specialist discipline?

 

[Miranda Yardley]

i have explained it.

every quote is by definition selective. this isn't rocket science, it's not even fucking arithmetick, but it's beyond you.

Rocket science is easy, it's just Newtonian mechanics. You up for a discussion on general relativity? How's your tensor calculus?

Thank you for showing clearly that you have no substantive argument against the point I was making as supported by the source, which you appear to be unable to repudiate.

 

[Pickman's model]

Rocket science is easy, it's just Newtonian mechanics. You up for a discussion on general relativity? How's your tensor calculus?

Thank you for showing clearly that you have no substantive argument against the point I was making as supported by the source, which you appear to be unable to repudiate.

oh, i haven't tried to repudiate it you stupid stupid cunt.

i was taking issue with your claim that your quote wasn't cherry-picked. as i've said three or four times now.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

But you just said transition isn't a real thing. So what was it you and your friends experienced?

We undergo a medical and social transition, both have limitations. This may help you understand my position more:

‘Transwomen’ are not Women

 

[MochaSoul]

What is 'gender identity'?

It's that "feeling" men and women like me don't have in our heads (or can't find it), and which, said lack, I mean, in theory, should categorize us as "asexual". Because, I and others, have come to terms with being thrown into the "woman condition" actually makes us "cis". Whether I want it or not, whether I believe it or not.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

you stupid stupid cunt.

Wow. What a charmer!

 

[Miranda Yardley]

Why post a link to an abstract in a journal of a specialist discipline?

It is pertinent to the conversation, it looks at Stoller's definitions of 'gender identity' and references trans individuals.

 

[bimble]

you stupid stupid cunt.

How's your new years resolution going?

 

[Miranda Yardley]

It's that "feeling" men and women like me don't have in our heads (or can't find it), and which, said lack, I mean, in theory, should categorize us as "asexual". Because, I and others, have come to terms with being thrown into the "woman condition" actually makes us "cis". Whether I want it or not, whether I believe it or not.

I see what many describe as 'gender identity' as just old-fashioned sexism.

 

[Pickman's model]

It is pertinent to the conversation, it looks at Stoller's definitions of 'gender identity' and references trans individuals.

and the full text, can you supply that?

 

[Pickman's model]

How's your new years resolution going?

don't do the cross-thread thing, bimble.

 

[elbows]

Wow. What a charmer!

I'm sure that to be a charmer requires at times either 'lying' or at least moderating your own beliefs so they dont kill the charm for others.

As such I am surprised the concept of charm even shows up on your radar.

 

[bimble]

I see what many describe as 'gender identity' as just old-fashioned sexism.

Me too. The message I'm getting lately is that if I see things this way then I should simply self identify as 'agender', job done.

 

[Red Cat]

It is pertinent to the conversation, it looks at Stoller's definitions of 'gender identity' and references trans individuals.

I can see that, but I can't access it, and most other people won't be able to either. I can also see it's a specialist journal publishing American psychoanalytic ideas that have their own history/political context and require some background. If I can get access I'll read it but if you could summarise what you find interesting I'd like to hear that.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

and the full text, can you supply that?

http://sci-hub.la/http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/10481889909539349?journalCode=hpsd20

See, I'm nice to you, even though you mostly sound like a sociopath.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

I can see that, but I can't access it, and most other people won't be able to either. I can also see it's a specialist journal publishing American psychoanalytic ideas that have their own history/political context and require some background. If I can get access I'll read it but if you could summarise what you find interesting I'd like to hear that.

Published a link below.

 

[elbows]

I see what many describe as 'gender identity' as just old-fashioned sexism.

Much better to fight against old-fashioned sexism using a range of wacky ideas that introduce new forms of sexism into the mix eh. Taken as a whole your output is bad comedy.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

I'm sure that to be a charmer requires at times either 'lying' or at least moderating your own beliefs so they dont kill the charm for others.

As such I am surprised the concept of charm even shows up on your radar.

Just when we seemed to be getting on too. Please show me anything abusive I have said to anyone here or elsewhere.

 

[Miranda Yardley]

Much better to fight against old-fashioned sexism using a range of wacky ideas that introduce new forms of sexism into the mix eh. Taken as a whole your output is bad comedy.

Ideas like what?