Transgender is it just me that is totally perplexed?

[Shechemite]

If you perform the gendered role according to your biological sex then you are cis.

So where does this leave biological men who perform the masuline role but internally identify as a woman?

 

[MochaSoul]

MochaSoul This story in the news today reminded me of what you'd written about your friend.
The female NHS nurse I asked for came with stubble

Thanks bimble . I had thought it might only be a matter of time but I didn't think it would be this soon. Aargh! It's hard for me though not to see this as a case of bad faith. I may need to be disabused here but **in my day to day** when I say "man" I don't really include transmen and when I say "woman" I don't really include transwomen. Has common parlance changed already? If it has, fair enough, I'm more behind the times than I thought. If it hasn't, it sounds rather like the service has taken for granted that patients will follow its politics and has not even bothered to issue guidelines to the effect of "asking patients themselves".

I dread to think yet another burden to be shouldered by women like my friend will be that of making sure the wording on these kind of requests prevents a conflation of sex with gender (as reflected in the nurse's response) but I don't think transgender women should bear that burden either. I don't think it's that difficult for whoever receives this sort of request to ask the patient if they would mind being attended to by a transgender woman/man.

 

[Cacadores]

Ok so now the definition has changed from a gender identity to a gender role. Unless you’re conflating a (conceptual) gender identity with gender roles/expectations.

By this definition those who defy gendered expectations are - by definition - trans. Which isn’t true is it?

Your use of the word 'defy' is interesting. And true. There is certainly an act of rebellion involved with the activists on this subject. The truth is that most so-called 'trans' people don't want to defy anyone. They want to be quiet and to slide into their preferred sexual identity without confrontation. It's the activists who think that the definitions are important. Because altering sex or gender definitions by use of legislation is brainwashing and has already happened in Canada and New York where you can face prosecution if you correctly identify the sex of self-proclaimed 'trans' person. And it's about to happen here.

The words are an attempt at brainwashing. Activists use the word 'trans' deliberately. We used to have the words transvestite and transsexual. Now we have 'trans' which attempts to conflate the two. And deliberately so.

We might think a transsexual who has had a permanent operation to alter their body is in a terrible bind if people insist on describing them by their chromosomal sex. And is therefore deserving of accommodation. But we shouldn't forget that operations only alter appendages. They don't alter the chromosomes that make a man who was born a boy into a female, no matter how many hormone suppressors they take. Their brain remains a man's brain. Which rather contrasts the oft-repeated idea that 'I always knew I was a girl inside'. Which is why it's near impossible for transsexual men to compete as women in Olympic sports. Most authorities require a testosterone count of 2 or 3 whereas transexuals manifesting as men are showing counts of 7 to 10. There is, of course, a move to raise the limit. By transsexual activists. Which could push real women out of their own sport. Something that already happening in American women's kick boxing or cage fighting.

The brainwashing comes in because the vast majority of 'trans' people have never had the operation. The whole world was lead to believe that Katlin Jenner hadva sex change. He didn't. His appendages are intact but at least he's on mild hormone therapy. Yet proposed British legislation could make it illegal for authorities to identify a man as man merely because he says he is woman. He wouldn't even have to dress as a woman.

This stuff doesn't just come from nowhere. Columbia University did employ staff sent over from the Frankfurt School. Which was funded by Communists. Then by the Rockefeller organisation. And they produce the literature used in our universities and extended by Marxist lecturers in the humanities which is driving this stuff. And the Tavistock Institute in London took on their ideology and is giving it medical cover. Marx didn't advocate destroying the family on a whim. He had a reason.

Until what seems a few minutes ago, gender dysmorphia was an illness. And no wonder when true dysmorphic transvestitism is a predictor of suicide. Post-op or pre-op it makes no difference.

We're messing with things we don't understand.

 

[Shechemite]

sent over from the Frankfurt School. Which was funded by Communists. Then by the Rockefeller organisation. And they produce the literature used in our universities and extended by Marxist lecturers in the humanities which is driving this stuff. And the Tavistock Institute in London took on their ideology and is giving it medical cover. Marx didn't advocate destroying the family on a whim. He had a reason.

.

Lol fuck off.

 

[campanula]

O Dear.
Damn, I was just heading off to bed...

 

[Athos]

Your use of the word 'defy' is interesting. And true. There is certainly an act of rebellion involved with the activists on this subject. The truth is that most so-called 'trans' people don't want to defy anyone. They want to be quiet and to slide into their preferred sexual identity without confrontation. It's the activists who think that the definitions are important. Because altering sex or gender definitions by use of legislation is brainwashing and has already happened in Canada and New York where you can face prosecution if you correctly identify the sex of self-proclaimed 'trans' person. And it's about to happen here.

The words are an attempt at brainwashing. Activists use the word 'trans' deliberately. We used to have the words transvestite and transsexual. Now we have 'trans' which attempts to conflate the two. And deliberately so.

We might think a transsexual who has had a permanent operation to alter their body is in a terrible bind if people insist on describing them by their chromosomal sex. And is therefore deserving of accommodation. But we shouldn't forget that operations only alter appendages. They don't alter the chromosomes that make a man who was born a boy into a female, no matter how many hormone suppressors they take. Their brain remains a man's brain. Which rather contrasts the oft-repeated idea that 'I always knew I was a girl inside'. Which is why it's near impossible for transsexual men to compete as women in Olympic sports. Most authorities require a testosterone count of 2 or 3 whereas transexuals manifesting as men are showing counts of 7 to 10. There is, of course, a move to raise the limit. By transsexual activists. Which could push real women out of their own sport. Something that already happening in American women's kick boxing or cage fighting.

The brainwashing comes in because the vast majority of 'trans' people have never had the operation. The whole world was lead to believe that Katlin Jenner hadva sex change. He didn't. His appendages are intact but at least he's on mild hormone therapy. Yet proposed British legislation could make it illegal for authorities to identify a man as man merely because he says he is woman. He wouldn't even have to dress as a woman.

This stuff doesn't just come from nowhere. Columbia University did employ staff sent over from the Frankfurt School. Which was funded by Communists. Then by the Rockefeller organisation. And they produce the literature used in our universities and extended by Marxist lecturers in the humanities which is driving this stuff. And the Tavistock Institute in London took on their ideology and is giving it medical cover. Marx didn't advocate destroying the family on a whim. He had a reason.

Until what seems a few minutes ago, gender dysmorphia was an illness. And no wonder when true dysmorphic transvestitism is a predictor of suicide. Post-op or pre-op it makes no difference.

We're messing with things we don't understand.

Fucking he'll!

 

[Shechemite]

Fucking he'll!

When alt/far right types go on about ‘cultural Marxism’, what they’re alluding to is the conspiracy theory elaborated above.

Of course it’s ‘Marxism’ without the materialism or class struggle, which is a funny sort of Marxism.

 

[mojo pixy]

What's heartening about U75 is that no matter posters' differences on a matter, we always manage to set that shit aside and unite to fuck conspiracist imbeciles off

 

[Cacadores]

So where does this leave biological men who perform the masuline role but internally identify as a woman?

'Internally identify.... " What can that possibly mean?

Identification means pointing out something your external senses perceive. And if it's internal no one else can ever know. There is no line between describing something with no material basis and pretence. Some men pretend to be women by dressing up as them.

If you want to pin-point lie, then ask yourself where the utility is. A man who acts or dresses like a woman is pretending. But the pretence can have a utility if it fulfills a purpose I.e. to reduce others' expectations, to live a calmer life or to fullfil a desire to wear flamboyant dress. Especially if you can get others to go along with the pretence.
But doing that Internally has no utility and it means nothing. It's no more than a whim untested by reality that others can know nothing about.

 

[Shechemite]

'Internally identify.... " What can that possibly mean?

Identification means pointing out something your external senses perceive. And if it's internal no one else can ever know. There is no line between describing something with no material basis and pretence. Some men pretend to be women by dressing up as them.

If you want to pin-point lie, then ask yourself where the utility is. A man who acts or dresses like a woman is pretending. But the pretence can have a utility if it fulfills a purpose I.e. to reduce others' expectations, to live a calmer life or to fullfil a desire to wear flamboyant dress. Especially if you can get others to go along with the pretence.
But doing that Internally has no utility and it means nothing. It's no more than a whim untested by reality that others can know nothing about.

Your New Years must be a right blast

 

[Cacadores]

When alt/far right types go on about ‘cultural Marxism’, what they’re alluding to is the conspiracy theory elaborated above.

Of course it’s ‘Marxism’ without the materialism or class struggle, which is a funny sort of Marxism.

The Frankfurt School is a real school and set of principles with a real history. With search engines at your fingertips there's really no excuse for ignorantly dismissing fact.

As for Marxism, culture was indeed one of Marx's concerns. Which of Marx's books have you read? A limited number I would guess. This does not avoid the fact that 'cultural marxism' is a name given to a set of conclusions reached at by the Critical Theorists. Derrida and others using Deconstruction methodologies in France which had, and are still having, a profound influence on the way humanities are taught in Western universities. And the link to the Frankfurt School, Marx, societal breakdown and Cultural Theory is pretty well-attested.

A willingness to dismiss something you don't know anything about shows an insane lack of curiosity, wouldn't you say?

 

[bimble]

Fuck off Cacadores , take your ‘degenerate culture’ bollocks elsewhere.
Happy New Year everyone else

 

[Cacadores]

Fuck off Cacadores , take your ‘degenerate culture’ bollocks elsewhere.
Happy New Year everyone else

Now why would you pretend to be incapable like that? Inhumane and divisive? And spout hate speech?

Are you trying to play the victim card?

Because this time of year is for people to come together. So Happy New Year to you.

Isn't that much nicer?

 

[Shechemite]

Now why would you pretend to be incapable like that? Inhumane and divisive? And spout hate speech?

Are you trying to play the victim card?

Because this time of year is for people to come together. So Happy New Year to you.

Isn't that much nicer?

lol. Opaque.

 

[Humberto]

Now why would you pretend to be incapable like that? Inhumane and divisive? And spout hate speech?

Are you trying to play the victim card?

Because this time of year is for people to come together. So Happy New Year to you.

Isn't that much nicer?

go and fuck off with your 'hate speech' shit.

 

[Shechemite]

The Frankfurt School is a real school and set of principles with a real history. With search engines at your fingertips there's really no excuse for ignorantly dismissing fact.

As for Marxism, culture was indeed one of Marx's concerns. Which of Marx's books have you read? A limited number I would guess. This does not avoid the fact that 'cultural marxism' is a name given to a set of conclusions reached at by the Critical Theorists. Derrida and others using Deconstruction methodologies in France which had, and are still having, a profound influence on the way humanities are taught in Western universities. And the link to the Frankfurt School, Marx, societal breakdown and Cultural Theory is pretty well-attested.

A willingness to dismiss something you don't know anything about shows an insane lack of curiosity, wouldn't you say?

What ‘fact’ am I ignorantly dismissing darling?

And do elaborate on this Marxism without class struggle/materialism, and how the Frankfurt School wasn’t merely an academic grouping, but the origin of the decline of the West.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

The Fabian Society are shit.

 

[Shechemite]

?

 

[smokedout]

Your use of the word 'defy' is interesting. And true. There is certainly an act of rebellion involved with the activists on this subject. The truth is that most so-called 'trans' people don't want to defy anyone. They want to be quiet and to slide into their preferred sexual identity without confrontation. It's the activists who think that the definitions are important. Because altering sex or gender definitions by use of legislation is brainwashing and has already happened in Canada and New York where you can face prosecution if you correctly identify the sex of self-proclaimed 'trans' person. And it's about to happen here.

The words are an attempt at brainwashing. Activists use the word 'trans' deliberately. We used to have the words transvestite and transsexual. Now we have 'trans' which attempts to conflate the two. And deliberately so.

We might think a transsexual who has had a permanent operation to alter their body is in a terrible bind if people insist on describing them by their chromosomal sex. And is therefore deserving of accommodation. But we shouldn't forget that operations only alter appendages. They don't alter the chromosomes that make a man who was born a boy into a female, no matter how many hormone suppressors they take. Their brain remains a man's brain. Which rather contrasts the oft-repeated idea that 'I always knew I was a girl inside'. Which is why it's near impossible for transsexual men to compete as women in Olympic sports. Most authorities require a testosterone count of 2 or 3 whereas transexuals manifesting as men are showing counts of 7 to 10. There is, of course, a move to raise the limit. By transsexual activists. Which could push real women out of their own sport. Something that already happening in American women's kick boxing or cage fighting.

The brainwashing comes in because the vast majority of 'trans' people have never had the operation. The whole world was lead to believe that Katlin Jenner hadva sex change. He didn't. His appendages are intact but at least he's on mild hormone therapy. Yet proposed British legislation could make it illegal for authorities to identify a man as man merely because he says he is woman. He wouldn't even have to dress as a woman.

This stuff doesn't just come from nowhere. Columbia University did employ staff sent over from the Frankfurt School. Which was funded by Communists. Then by the Rockefeller organisation. And they produce the literature used in our universities and extended by Marxist lecturers in the humanities which is driving this stuff. And the Tavistock Institute in London took on their ideology and is giving it medical cover. Marx didn't advocate destroying the family on a whim. He had a reason.

Until what seems a few minutes ago, gender dysmorphia was an illness. And no wonder when true dysmorphic transvestitism is a predictor of suicide. Post-op or pre-op it makes no difference.

We're messing with things we don't understand.

It would be a shame to derail this discussion but you should definitely start a thread about the Frankfurt School.

Ideally on a different internet forum.

Happy New Year everyone.

 

[Magnus McGinty]

?

They’re cultural Marxists.

 

[Shechemite]

Right

 

[Cacadores]

go and fuck off with your 'hate speech' shit.

If you want to understand the culture you're in, then try reading the Book of John.

There is an alternative to hatred.

 

[Humberto]

I know the book of John just fine thanks

 

[Humberto]

Listen, I don't know who you are listening to, Alex Jones, David Icke or whoever, but you need to fuck them off. Read your bible properly if that is what you are into. Who ended up in heaven, Lazarus who fed off crumbs he didn't get, or the rich man?

 

[Humberto]

fucking derail apols

 

[Cacadores]

What ‘fact’ am I ignorantly dismissing darling?

And do elaborate on this Marxism without class struggle/materialism, and how the Frankfurt School wasn’t merely an academic grouping, but the origin of the decline of the West.

Well, I asked you which of Marx's works you've read and then we can start from there. Or shall we assume you haven't?

Also, why would I elaborate on Marxism without class struggle? If you read my post carefully you'll find that was your proposition, not mine.

Nor did I ever suggest the Frankfurt School wasn't an academic grouping. Again, that would be your proposition, not mine.

As for ignorantly dismissing, that would be everything in post-No. 3782. Not saying you are ignorant, but to dismiss a fact simply by associating it with an ill-defined group you don't like, and which, as far as we know, isn't here; rather than adressing the argument or facts does strike one as a rather ignorant way to argue. Or do you disagree?

So why not start there. Tell me what you disagree with.

That is, something I actually wrote this time as opposed to you disagreeing with what you wrote. Which never ends well,
dear.

 

[Humberto]

Yer basically a representative for Icke/Jones DvD merchants

So fuck off

 

[TopCat]

This is by far the most interesting thread on the site. Happy New Year!

 

[Sunset Tree]

Referring to aspects of liberalism as cultural marxism is quite common among conspiracy theorists of the right. Although it's associated with the far-right it's quite common with youtube 'rationalists', libertarians, that side of the internet culture wars.

 

[Shechemite]

And Tory councillors it seems