Tory Leadership contest 2022

[Karl Masks]

I don't buy that in the slightest.

Only country that's ever used nukes in anger is the USA, of course. They're the fuckers to watch out for.

Weren't used in anger. It was to send a message to Uncle Joe and kick off the cold war.

 

[Sasaferrato]

My understanding of the deterrence principle was simply that any power which was prepared to use a first strike did at least have to factor in the consequences of the retaliatory strike.

Arguably, without that threat, we'd probably have had a nuclear war by now. I can't help thinking that if Russia did not have to contend with the nuclear deterrence issue, it could be tempted to use battlefield nuclear weapons to achieve its aims without severe consequences. Let's hope so, anyway.

Had the Warsaw Pact come West, battlefield nukes were scheduled for about day six.

 

[rubbershoes]

Weren't used in anger. It was to send a message to Uncle Joe and kick off the cold war.

I'm sure there was an element of beating Japan too, or am I naive to think that

 

[SpookyFrank]

I'm sure there was an element of beating Japan too, or am I naive to think that

Japan had already agreed to surrender before the bombs were dropped.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

Sunak says it was a mistake to ‘empower scientists’ during Covid pandemic

Ex-chancellor admits being furious about school closures, adding trade-offs of lockdowns were not properly considered by experts

www.theguardian.com

Fuck off, then fuck off some more.

Truss is at this now too! They are trying to out tory each other. She says under her watch there would be no lockdown, science be damned. Won't somebody think of the economy?

Not spunking away billions on shit deals with tory mates might have saved a few billion.

 

[Pickman's model]

Weren't used in anger. It was to send a message to Uncle Joe and kick off the cold war.

how curious that the start of the cold war is traditionally taken to start after the end of the second world war, a couple of years after the end of the second world war, and not in august 1945. and while it may be as you say, to send a message to uncle joe, the americans were sending a rather different message at the time with the transfer of us navy vessels to the soviet union under project hula Project Hula - Wikipedia not to mention the other largesse which had been sent their way throughout the period of the great patriotic war. perhaps you have some of that handy documentary evidence with which to bolster your case.

 

[rubbershoes]

Japan had already agreed to surrender before the bombs were dropped.

Debatable

 

[SpookyFrank]

My understanding of the deterrence principle was simply that any power which was prepared to use a first strike did at least have to factor in the consequences of the retaliatory strike.

Arguably, without that threat, we'd probably have had a nuclear war by now. I can't help thinking that if Russia did not have to contend with the nuclear deterrence issue, it could be tempted to use battlefield nuclear weapons to achieve its aims without severe consequences. Let's hope so, anyway.

Lets game theory it out then. Say Putin drops a 'tactical' nuke on some Ukrainian city. The world at large sucks its teeth in disapproval, some fingers hover near some buttons for a second, and then everyone remembers the deterrence principle. If we nuke Russia, Russia will nuke us back. We're right back where we started, only Ukraine now has one city fewer than it had this morning.

The deterrence principle doesn't mean that nobody can use nukes. It means the opposite.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Japan had already agreed to surrender before the bombs were dropped.

No.

Did the Japanese offer to surrender before Hiroshima? (Part 1)

Did the Japanese offer to surrender before Hiroshima? Short answer: no. Long answer: also no, but it's a bit complicated.

blog.nuclearsecrecy.com

 

[Sasaferrato]

Debatable

Not debatable. Didn't happen.

 

[Sasaferrato]

When I look at the two candidates, I wonder, could two worse options be on offer?

 

[Pickman's model]

When I look at the two candidates, I wonder, could two worse options be on offer?

theoretically yes

 

[rubbershoes]

When I look at the two candidates, I wonder, could two worse options be on offer?

Yes. Throw a dart at the current cabinet and you'd hit a worse candidate. And that's not saying anything good about these two

 

[SpookyFrank]

When I look at the two candidates, I wonder, could two worse options be on offer?

If only people had not been voting tory all these years.

Still, nobody's to blame for that. Benefit of hindsight and all that. Can't expect people to take ownership of the consequences of their actions or anything.

 

[Sasaferrato]

If only people had not been voting tory all these years.

Still, nobody's to blame for that. Benefit of hindsight and all that. Can't expect people to take ownership of the consequences of their actions or anything.

Don't know about you, but I have never voted to try and elect a Conservative MP in my life. I vote for the Labour candidate.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Yes. Throw a dart at the current cabinet and you'd hit a worse candidate. And that's not saying anything good about these two

Who would you choose if you could?

 

[rubbershoes]

Who would you choose if you could?

Put them all on a bus to the party conference. As it's going past a lime pit, a sniper takes out the driver and the bus swerves into the pit, disintegrating them utterly.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Put them all on a bus to the party conference. As it's going past a lime pit, a sniper takes out the driver and the bus swerves into the pit, disintegrating them utterly.

Interesting, but doesn't answer the question. Note that I said 'Who', not which Conservative.

 

[souljacker]

Don't know about you, but I have never voted to try and elect a Conservative MP in my life. I vote for the Labour candidate.

??

https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/im-on-ur-boardz-wasting-ur-bandwidthz-pt-5.261392/post-17043233

 

[Sasaferrato]

??

https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/im-on-ur-boardz-wasting-ur-bandwidthz-pt-5.261392/post-17043233

And where does that say that I have ever voted for a Conservative candidate for MP? It doesn't, and it wouldn't, because I never have.

A vote for a Conservative Westminster (or Holyrood for that matter) candidate is a wasted vote. I vote for the Labour candidate.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Put them all on a bus to the party conference. As it's going past a lime pit, a sniper takes out the driver and the bus swerves into the pit, disintegrating them utterly.

can we not get them to try out a driverless bus?

 

[SpookyFrank]

can we not get them to try out a driverless bus?

Init. This country can ill afford to spare a bus driver right now.

 

[Artaxerxes]

Boris is to recreate Joe Pescis exit in Casino once this is over

 

[Pickman's model]

Boris is to recreate Joe Pescis exit in Casino once this is over

View attachment 340348

Every time I see an open grave I know it's longing for Boris Johnson's penguin-pecked corpse

 

[Santino]

And where does that say that I have ever voted for a Conservative candidate for MP? It doesn't, and it wouldn't, because I never have.

A vote for a Conservative Westminster (or Holyrood for that matter) candidate is a wasted vote. I vote for the Labour candidate.

The reason I vote Conservative ( a wasted vote in this constituency ) is to see lower taxes, smaller government and conditions that foster business expansion with the concomitant rise in employment.

 

[Tanya1982]

I've always been of the view that neither the UK, or any other NATO member would engage in a nuclear first strike.

So, if you are not going to use it first, why have it? Sure, when the Russian or Chinese or North Korean missiles are in the air, you can retaliate, but to what purpose? It isn't going to help a glowing London by creating a glowing Moscow or Beijing. The only reason that we hold on to nuclear weapons is to maintain our position as a permanent member of the UN Security Council.

I always presumed the motivation was revenge. I might not agree with it, but I understand it.

Having said that, I've never found myself dying in a radioactive wasteland - if I did, it's conceivable that I too would want whoever was responsible to find themselves equally up shit creek.

 

[Artaxerxes]

I always presumed the motivation was revenge. I might not agree with it, but I understand it.

Yes, it’s to ensure that in any scenario where the UK is invaded or endangered the other side has to choose if it’s worth losing a substantial portion of its citizens and infrastructure.

I don’t agree with Nukes but I understand the logic.

 

[Louis MacNeice]

Can someone explain to me how the current proposals to extract more oil and gas out of the North Sea will help in the current cost of living crisis.

Surely it will take a while to get the extra gas and oil?

Surely the gas and oil will be owned by the energy extraction companies who will trade it internationally to the highest bidder?

Surely it will contribute to global warming which is currently threatening millions in Pakistan?

I must be missing something.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

 

[Smangus]

Can someone explain to me how the current proposals to extract more oil and gas out of the North Sea will help in the current cost of living crisis.

Surely it will take a while to get the extra gas and oil?

Surely the gas and oil will be owned by the energy extraction companies who will trade it internationally to the highest bidder?

Surely it will contribute to global warming which is currently threatening millions in Pakistan?

I must be missing something.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice

It won't, takes about 25-30 years to start extraction. At best its about mid term old tech energy security. Oh and maintenance of some share prices.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I always presumed the motivation was revenge. I might not agree with it, but I understand it.

Having said that, I've never found myself dying in a radioactive wasteland - if I did, it's conceivable that I too would want whoever was responsible to find themselves equally up shit creek.

Whoever's responsible will be in a bunker somewhere. Any 'revenge' would be against the innocent.