torchwood

[Balbi]

Aye, he's a good character - a few off beat moments with him too,

When Ianto was on the run, "ah, but we're the only family he's got see" to Ianto's sister on why they should take care of him.

"Where's Ianto Jones"

*turns over in bed* "He's not going to be here is he, i'm a married man!"

 

[Iguana]

*turns over completely naked in bed* "He's not going to be here is he, i'm a married man!

 

[ViolentPanda]

Do not be at all surprised if 456 are what the hitchhikers grow up to become. Hence the reason they wouldn't give their real name.

Good point!

Are we to assume that the latest virus is a new one and not the virus they already had the antidote for in 1944.

1965, and I doubt it. The antidote was for a form of flu that was already in the population but hadn't gone pandemic, and there wasn't any mention of it killing people within minutes rather than the usual days to weeks it takes influenza. I suspect that whatever they used at Thames House was something they cooked up after they had access to nearly a dozen specimens of pre-pubescent humanity.

 

[Balbi]

Perfect character to kill off after 4 hours of builidng him up.

Yeah, and the 26 episodes before that

 

[BlueSquareThing]

Yeah, and the 26 episodes before that

Yes, but this series was a real Ianto build up job. Perfect really.

 

[fogbat]

The guy who plays Ianto must have invested in some acting lessons at some point between the second series and this one.

 

[London_Calling]

and Mis 'feed 'em the poor' need to die.

I just caught up with the tv State of Play a couple of weeks ago, she was only the Minister's sec in that one so a spot of promotion since.

What do they want them for !!??

 

[London_Calling]

The guy who plays Ianto must have invested in some acting lessons at some point between the second series and this one.

I thought he maybe had a slight Heath Ledger/Brokeback quality to his sexuality, quiet, unexpressive, and that.

 

[DotCommunist]

I just caught up with the tv State of Play a couple of weeks ago, she was only the Minister's sec in that one so a spot of promotion since.

What do they want them for !!??

I'd guess at a few things:

pleasurable symbiosis- as mentioned by others. They could be like a drug to the aliens: Octavia Butler and othe sci fi types have done this sort of idea.

A vector of some sort. Perhaps for breeding, perhaps necessary to a certain growth stage in the life cycle.

perhaps to harvest brain chemicals/hormones that they have no access too (for whatever reason) but are necessary to thier survival.

 

[Helen Back]

Anyone else notice a few similarities between this story and the early Pertwee one "The Ambassadors Of Death"? (Aliens kept in a glass holding area)

 

[London_Calling]

Blimey - hard core.


The boy who escaped - the mental patient now dead - might offer a clue; he seemingly didn't have anything to do with them back in 1965 yet they communicated with him as they have all the other children. That seems to undermine the dog whistle theory.

Another thing, why would the alien bring the child with him, unless he needed to . . .

Lastly, I wonder if there was a clue in the alien repeating 'you did last time' (or whatever), in an almost child-like way. Could it be that the alien is, in fact, one of the taken children, now partly assimilated DA DA !!!

 

[Stigmata]

Proper laugh out loud when he was hoying bricks at ianto's car 'we'll get em on the victory lap'

That bit where he told the local kids the government spooks were a pair of paedos was excellent.

 

[scifisam]

If we were to talk seriously about the preposterous for a minute; if a politician - obviously looking for the minimal political damage to themselves - had the choice between children at the bottom 10% of failing schools (regardless of the childs ability) or . . . children of a non-indigenous background, which of those would the politician think would be the most expedient, the most acceptable to the general population of the UK as it is today?

Reference the ‘middle brow’ tabloids and some red top tabloids. That would have been an interesting Cabinet discussion. Too brave for the BBC, I suspect.

As it is, morally speaking the whole 10% theme is already about a five minute bus ride from Auschwitz.

Talking seriously, I think people are far more likely to accept taking the bottom 10% of schools than going by race. It's also much easier to organise - that's one of the reasons they went for it.

Surely I didn't misunderstand - it is the lowest 10% of schools, not kids, isn't it? Everyone else in this thread seems to think it's the kids, but that'd be bloody difficult to arrange.

Donna's not dead!

Sorry - I meant killed the character off.

Looks like tonights episode is going to be scarily similar to the kind of nightmares I have. Running and fighting to keep my kids safe in a war type environment, I am going to be on the edge of my seat.

Heh. I have nightmares like that all the time too.

I sobbed. Sorry sam, but it was when Ianto died. I don't have kids, so perhaps that's why I didn't cry over that. I was disgusted, but also fascinated to watch them go down that road, where it becomes an acceptable option. The emphasis on spin was marvellous.

The Ianto thing affected me so much I dreamt about it last night. In my dream all those who died in Thames House came back to life, something to do either with an antedote or some alien magic thing. Anyway, of course this meant Ianto came back to life too.

I really, really hope that happens.

You could see it coming though. What with all the emphasis on their relationship this series.

I understand people being upset about Ianto dying, but I couldn't understand the way they seemed to forget that anything else happened in the episode at all.

Do not be at all surprised if 456 are what the hitchhikers grow up to become. Hence the reason they wouldn't give their real name.

Possibly. Doubt it, though, what with the aliens requiring a different atmosphere to us.

Blimey - hard core.


The boy who escaped - the mental patient now dead - might offer a clue; he seemingly didn't have anything to do with them back in 1965 yet they communicated with him as they have all the other children. That seems to undermine the dog whistle theory.

Another thing, why would the alien bring the child with him, unless he needed to . . .

Lastly, I wonder if there was a clue in the alien repeating 'you did last time' (or whatever), in an almost child-like way. Could it be that the alien is, in fact, one of the taken children, now partly assimilated DA DA !!!

It could be that, maybe.

I wonder why they need children at all - and need to keep them as children once they're melded with the alien bodies. It doesn't even seem to be pre-pubescent children, despite what Gwen said to Clem about why he was left behind.

 

[scifisam]

BTW, did anyone else notice that the PM decided to exclude the children and grandchildren of all those round this table? Yeah, fuck any kids connected to the secretaries sitting separately and the security guards at the door.

 

[llantwit]

Sorry - I meant killed the character off.

But she's not dead - he just wiped her recent memory and turned her back into an ordinary temp.
Nice echo in Lois Habiba being "just a temp" in the new Torchwood, too.
Also, it made me think of the linguistic connotations of "temp" as "time" in latinate languages, too. Clever stuff, this Whoniverse.

 

[madzone]

I'm going to get some nibbles and nice drinks in for this

 

[Balbi]

I'm going to watch it for breakfast tomorrow

 

[QueenOfGoths]

I'm going to get some nibbles and nice drinks in for this

You still taking about threesomes

 

[London_Calling]

Talking seriously, I think people are far more likely to accept taking the bottom 10% of schools than going by race. It's also much easier to organise - that's one of the reasons they went for it.

I just thought it a fascinating opportunity while we in the realm of fantasy horror. You speak from inner east London, I strongly suspect the views you hold aren't reflected across the shires and beyond. As a decision of political expediency . . .

As a writers device, I would really liked to have seen someone around that Cabinet table make the case - it's already bonkers mad, lets go all the way.

Surely I didn't misunderstand - it is the lowest 10% of schools, not kids, isn't it?

That's how I understood it, school league tables, not students - that's what was amusing. Inner London schools, etc, not private schools.

 

[Iguana]

As a writers device, I would really liked to have seen someone around that Cabinet table make the case - it's already bonkers mad, lets go all the way.

Actually what I think they would have done as soon as the aliens weren't willing to accept 6700 children is asked them if the 10% could come from anywhere in the world. If it was allowed they would have started contacting poorer nations and "bought" 325,000 children in exchange for debt forgiveness or trade agreements.

Every single sacrificed child would come from Africa, Asia and South America. And it would be spun in such a way as to give the impression that the lovely aliens had taken pity on the poorest children in the world and were taking them away to give them a better life. Any parents objecting would simply be shot.

 

[Stigmata]

That makes a lot of sense. The aliens were demanding a quota per country though, so it might not have worked.

 

[DotCommunist]

Actually what I think they would have done as soon as the aliens weren't willing to accept 6700 children is asked them if the 10% could come from anywhere in the world. If it was allowed they would have started contacting poorer nations and "bought" 325,000 children in exchange for debt forgiveness or trade agreements.

Every single sacrificed child would come from Africa, Asia and South America. And it would be spun in such a way as to give the impression that the lovely aliens had taken pity on the poorest children in the world and were taking them away to give them a better life. Any parents objecting would simply be shot.

Harsh, but likely.

But Doctor Who would save them in the end.

 

[London_Calling]

Mark my words, it's key that: 'you did it before' repeated - naive aliens, repeating exactly the tactic of before and not understanding the resistance.

 

[Iguana]

But Doctor Who would save them in the end.

Well I did say that Jack should have tried mentioning that Earth was under the Doctor's protection. It doesn't always work, but it scares the shit out of a lot of species.

 

[scifisam]

I just thought it a fascinating opportunity while we in the realm of fantasy horror. You speak from inner east London, I strongly suspect the views you hold aren't reflected across the shires and beyond. As a decision of political expediency . . .

As a writers device, I would really liked to have seen someone around that Cabinet table make the case - it's already bonkers mad, lets go all the way.

With two black ministers at the table, I don't think anyone would have tried to make the case. The spin doctor guy also saw the aliens as an opportunity to get rid of future 'drains on public resources,' caring more about money than race.

Besides, don't you think the public would be a bit quick to notice all the non-white kids disappearing? There are a LOT of non-white parents (from all different classes, many with money and power), and there'd be tons of resistance. OTOH, taking the kids from the worst performing schools wouldn't be immediately obvious, and those parents are generally the ones with the least power.

If stealing kids from other countries isn't an option, which is indicated by the numbers the kids said, then I can totally see 'take the future benefit claimants' being the decision made.

 

[Stigmata]

Class prejudice is more socially acceptable than racism these days anyway.

 

[London_Calling]

With two black ministers at the table, I don't think anyone would have tried to make the case. The spin doctor guy also saw the aliens as an opportunity to get rid of future 'drains on public resources,' caring more about money than race.

But you're the writer . . . the least radical idea here is to have a Cabinet without ethnic representation.

 

[Iguana]

The fact of the matter is, that if it did get out after the fact, most people would be disgusted but would also be relieved. Their method would have removed entire families for the most part, which leaves as many people as possible untouched. If you found out that the whole world was under threat but the government had a solution that would leave you and everyone you know and need untouched, deep down you'd be want them to go ahead with it. You'd know it was morally repugnant but everyone you love is ok and for most people that would be the over-riding feeling.

That was one of the things that was great about this episode. The woman who suggested their plan was initially the most desperate to find a way of not complying. She was the one calling them children and not units. But once convinced that they must comply she wanted to find the solution that would cause the least impact to her personally and her way of life.

 

[pigtails]

I'm going to watch it for breakfast tomorrow

me too!
I'm excited!!

 

[scifisam]

But you're the writer . . . the least radical idea here is to have a Cabinet without ethnic representation.

True, they could have written in an all-white cabinet.

It still just doesn't seem very likely to me that they'd go for taking all the non-white kids: it'd be difficult to organise in the time span they had, it'd be really obvious what they were doing, there'd be opposition from all quarters including some very wealthy and powerful non-white parents, and non-white kids wouldn't make 10%, anyway.

The writers weren't being cowardly by going for the class rather than the race option; they were being realistic.

The fact of the matter is, that if it did get out after the fact, most people would be disgusted but would also be relieved. Their method would have removed entire families for the most part, which leaves as many people as possible untouched. If you found out that the whole world was under threat but the government had a solution that would leave you and everyone you know and need untouched, deep down you'd be want them to go ahead with it. You'd know it was morally repugnant but everyone you love is ok and for most people that would be the over-riding feeling.

That was one of the things that was great about this episode. The woman who suggested their plan was initially the most desperate to find a way of not complying. She was the one calling them children and not units. But once convinced that they must comply she wanted to find the solution that would cause the least impact to her personally and her way of life.

Agreed. And yeah, she was an interesting character. They decided they had to get rid of some kids, so she pragmatically decided to get rid of the ones who were least likely to be 'productive members of society' in the future rather than just pick kids randomly.

Funnily enough, though, I wouldn't call them bad people for making sure their own kids were safe no matter what happened. Having to sacrifice other people's children is horrible enough in itself, but they'd have to be inhuman to be willing to sacrifice their own kids.