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The war and "the left" - what do "we" do?

Which of the following would you support?

  • Oppose all actions by the UK govt/NATO, whatever they can do will only fuck things up worse

    Votes: 22 21.4%

  • Support them sending troops in

    Votes: 11 10.7%

  • Oppose them sending troops in but support non-military actions, eg sanctions, other?

    Votes: 48 46.6%

  • Support military aid to forces resisting the invasion

    Votes: 56 54.4%

  • Don't ask the govt to do anything but send direct aid and assistance to resistance forces

    Votes: 28 27.2%

  • Other, please expand

    Votes: 8 7.8%
  • Total voters
    103
Don't see the point or have the time/inclination in having argument lasting days on this forum!
Made my position pretty clear on other thread(s)!
Too busy building Stop The War Coalition in Oxfordshire and supporting genuine anti imperialists and anti fascists actively!
 
Nigel said:
Don't see the point or have the time/inclination in having argument lasting days on this forum!
Made my position pretty clear on other thread(s)!
Too busy building Stop The War Coalition in Oxfordshire and supporting genuine anti imperialists and anti fascists actively!
Click to expand...
How is Putin?
 
Possibly of interest, a critique of a Berlin demo:

Private Site

enoughisenough14.org
Along with another text in German:

Kontrapolis » Gegen jeden Krieg! Aus anarchistischer, feministischer, antikolonialer Sicht: Kritik an Demoaufruf und Bündnis „No War but Class War!“

kontrapolis.info kontrapolis.info
The demo itself sounds like a strange beast, the list of sponsors seems to have some anarchist and antifa groups along with the German section of Workers' Power and the youth section of the DKP:

No War but Class War!

nowarbutclasswar.noblogs.org
 
Wilf said:
Hello Nigel, you've said you don't want to engage in long discussions on here, so here's a quick one for you. There may be other urbanites active in the stwc, but you are the most prominent currently: would you support George Galloway being expelled from the stwc?
Click to expand...
Whether I'd like to see George Galloway thrown out or if I would support his expulsion are two different things!
I find his Strasserite politics despicable, however have admiration for standing by his opinion and political stance, even in such an egomanical way!
I'm glad that Melanchon has told his followers and supporters not to vote for Marine Le Pen; he was arguing that Melanchon supporters back the crypto fascists and back her!

In my opinion Galloway has stated some things that go directly against STWC and there would be reason to take him to tribunal and/or some disciplinary process, on some of the comments he has made & opinions taken!

If such a judgement was made that he either retracts some of his more Pro Putin reactionary positions or face expulsion; I'm sure with many others there would be few tears shed on Gorgeous George departing ways with STWC.
Another point, his hubristic and egomanical nature is poison for almost any organisation he was or is involved with; RESPECT is a good example and his bedfellows in Workers Party and the way he operates severeley diminish electorial success form whichever political platform or persuasion thay come from!
 
Interesting development as some posters on here were discussing Workers Aid in 1990's!
Michael Pröbsting; head of RCIT has been active in re-establishing convoys, that are going to Ukraine taking aid!

The Sunflower Convoy from what I've been told has managed to find passage through Poland and are delivering aid in Ukraine in and around Social Centres!
Although the RCIT have capitulated to, at least sympathising with the proxy puppet regime of Zelensky and by default backing western imperialism, they have bridged ethnic divides according to email I was sent and following article, and working with Tartars and ethnic Russians in this project, alongside the more progressive Ukrainians!
www.workers-aid.net

Updates - Convoy | Workers Aid (Int)

SUCCESSFUL THIRD CONVOY. ***Mayday 2022*** The Sunflower Convoy from International Workers Aid was already twice on the road. In support of the Convoy and Conference, which was initiated by International Labour Network of Solidarity and Struggles (ILNSS) we organized the transport of donations...
www.workers-aid.net www.workers-aid.net
 
Nigel said:
Whether I'd like to see George Galloway thrown out or if I would support his expulsion are two different things!
I find his Strasserite politics despicable, however have admiration for standing by his opinion and political stance, even in such an egomanical way!
I'm glad that Melanchon has told his followers and supporters not to vote for Marine Le Pen; he was arguing that Melanchon supporters back the crypto fascists and back her!

In my opinion Galloway has stated some things that go directly against STWC and there would be reason to take him to tribunal and/or some disciplinary process, on some of the comments he has made & opinions taken!

If such a judgement was made that he either retracts some of his more Pro Putin reactionary positions or face expulsion; I'm sure with many others there would be few tears shed on Gorgeous George departing ways with STWC.
Another point, his hubristic and egomanical nature is poison for almost any organisation he was or is involved with; RESPECT is a good example and his bedfellows in Workers Party and the way he operates severeley diminish electorial success form whichever political platform or persuasion thay come from!
Click to expand...
Thanks for the reply.

You mention taking him to a tribunal. The thing is, pretty much like boris johnson, he doesn't fit into those rational processes and can rarely be skewered by them. And that's my problem with stwc, respect and others who wanted to run with his, yuk, 'star quality'. Everyone has always known he's an obnoxious shit, tailoring his views to meet his audience, but with a default of cosying up to monsters. And then there's the 'poor sexual etiquette', the chiselling and a thousand other shitty bits of behaviour. Even if there's a 50, 60, 70% overlap between his politics and your own, you should keep clear of the scummy mountebank.

'You' being the stwc and others, not you personally.
 
Wilf said:
Thanks for the reply.

You mention taking him to a tribunal. The thing is, pretty much like boris johnson, he doesn't fit into those rational processes and can rarely be skewered by them. And that's my problem with stwc, respect and others who wanted to run with his, yuk, 'star quality'. Everyone has always known he's an obnoxious shit, tailoring his views to meet his audience, but with a default of cosying up to monsters. And then there's the 'poor sexual etiquette', the chiselling and a thousand other shitty bits of behaviour. Even if there's a 50, 60, 70% overlap between his politics and your own, you should keep clear of the scummy mountebank.

'You' being the stwc and others, not you personally.
Click to expand...
100% agree!
However, without going through due process, you end up with victimising people and/or setting up prescedent therof or even setting up 'kangaroo courts' which is even worse!
Yeah. I'd distance myself and encourage others as well from not so Gorgeous George!
I'm finding it difficult enough getting on and working with SWP :oops:
 
hitmouse said:
Also, huh: IGD put up a piece strongly arguing for a strict NWBCW line (from a somewhat insurrectionist standpoint, as you might expect). I didn't agree with it but thought it was interesting and was going to share it here when I got a chance, but I now see it's been taken down. Huh. 🤨
Click to expand...
The article I mention is now up here:

No War But Class War: Against State Nationalism and Inter-Imperialist War in Ukraine – Abolition Media

abolitionmedia.noblogs.org abolitionmedia.noblogs.org

It's worth a read, a fairly well-argued and thoughtful setting out of a particular line. I also think it's deeply wrong, infuriatingly so in some places.
 
Interview with Taras Bilous.

commons.com.ua

“The Left in the West must rethink” — a conversation with Taras Bilous

Notes on the war from Kyiv – a conversation with Taras Bilous
commons.com.ua commons.com.ua
“If leftists continue to blame NATO for the Russian invasion, they only show that they have not grasped the changed situation,” says Taras Bilous. The editor of the left-wing Ukrainian magazine Commons wrote a letter to the left in the West shortly after the war began. In it, he criticized the fact that the people in the Eastern European states and their political ideas, but also Putin’s aggressive imperialism, do not seem to exist for the left in the West, which is fixated on NATO. Taras Bilous has stayed in Kyiv and joined an anarchist group that organizes aid activities and builds its own defense unit. In this interview, he talks about how the war has changed his political perspective, what possible developments he sees, and what the left in the West needs to rethink. The interview took place on March 8, Oksana Dutchak translated. Oksana Dutchak is a sociologist and researcher in the fields of labor issues and gender inequality and also an editor at Commons. She has left Kyiv and is currently in western Ukraine.
Click to expand...
 
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