discokermit
Well-Known Member
yeh yeh squaddy cunt. go and play with your little war boner.
The war and "the left" - what do "we" do?
- Thread starter hitmouse
- Start date
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
So you voted against all UK government action discokermit. Including taking refugees and/or providing medical aid at the border then?
discokermit
Well-Known Member
i voted for what was nearest my position.
uk government should allow all refugees from anywhere.
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
Lavrov’s got a place round the corner from here, penthouse flat. Would love to hang a massive Ukrainian flag off the top of it. Unfortunately it appears not to have a handy external fire escape to get up there. Anybody got the number for Fathers for Justice?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Fathers 4 Justice - Contact us
Men and boys urgently need an equal voice representing their interests. We ask the government to act now to ensure men and boys receive the support they deserve and need.
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
There's a phone number for a London squatters' network here:
www.squatter.org.uk
I dunno if you can ring them up and order squatters though?
Networking | Advisory Service for Squatters
www.squatter.org.uk
Dogsauce
I’ve got Skol but I’m not a Scholar
It’s a posh place with a concierge so not sure how easy to get access. Plus they’d have to get the Megabus over to Bristol. Plenty of inventive squatter here already mind.There's a phone number for a London squatters' network here:
I dunno if you can ring them up and order squatters though?Networking | Advisory Service for Squatters
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
One thing the left could be campaigning for is campaigning for for example more protection for ordinary Russians trying to leave and against aspects of the sanctions that are going to hit ordinary people and not Putin/the elite. Speak out against hate crimes committed against russians or Ukrainian refugees etc. Campaigning to make it easier for opponents of Putin and economic refugees to come settle here.
I don't really have much faith that 'the left' has anything to say of value on the geopolitical aspects of it all.
I don't really have much faith that 'the left' has anything to say of value on the geopolitical aspects of it all.
bluescreen
tofu eating wokerati
BristolEcho
Well-Known Member
To be watchful of anti-Russian civilian sentiment and to challenge this. This morning there were debates on TV about banning all Russians from sport and how quickly that narrative can become toxic towards normal Russian people even when it's caveated with "I don't mean all Russians but...."
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
One good bit of workers’ action here - Tanker of Russian gas diverted after Kent dockers refuse to unload it
Yuwipi Woman
Whack-A-Mole Queen
As a practical matter, if you let sanctions make the lives of ordinary Russians worse, they're more likely to line up behind Putin. It allows Putin to claim that the rest of the world is against Russia, and Russians with more credibility. You can create a lot of group cohesion with themes of victimization.
It looks like this is IDC policy.
eta: at least this is something we should all be able to agree on supporting.
Last edited:
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
This is very long, but a good friend just wrote it on the subject being discussed here, and I think it's a very thoughtful and useful contribution, so here ya go (posted with their permission)...
--------------------
When Picasso painted his depiction of the victims of the bombing of the Spanish town of Guernica in the civil war he poured onto the canvas his anger and humanity. Now rage and compassion are not enough. The Spanish people were defeated and subjected to decades of dictatorship because working class militants were mostly forced to abide by Stalin's policies of collaboration with the 'democratic' bourgeoisie.
So cool heads must prevail and discussions must be held to try to see how the working class can act over Ukraine. The discussion must be comradely and self critical since no-one around at present has shown that they have got clear answers. But, having said all this, if we are not filled with rage right now, moved by compassion, then nothing we say or do will amount to much and it will not find the necessary connection with the working class around us.
Virtually every person I meet as I go to the shops, catch a bus etc is talking about Ukraine and they are Angry and despairing. A man I met yesterday, who never usually talks politics, said first thing, 'Why can't someone get in and assassinate Putin?' and another person asked 'Why Doesn't NATO bomb that convoy outside Kiev?'
Some 'revolutionaries' will be horrified at the request for NATO to bomb. They will explain about NATO's own imperialism. For me this man's request is the kernel of the future wrapped in the shell of the present. Inside his plea is his feeling of common humanity and, given the total absence of a working class response to Ukraine, he sees no other way to prevent further massacres. And, sadly, he is right.
Across the world Governments are being forced to change their policies everyday because of this popular outrage. Even the Para Olympic committee has to do an about turn in 24 hours. Football manager say that winning matches is not as important as supporting Ukraine.
This is one of those very rare moments of upheaval in public thinking and we are trying to catch up with it or, in some cases , failing to even recognise what is happening and the possible opportunities for action. This huge swell of popular feeling, largely devoid of jingoism, erupts but of course can only find articulation in forms that ultimately cannot provide a way out and which governments will seek to turn to their own interests.
It is the job of working class militants to try to find ways to turn this outburst into something that can rebuild working class internationalism. As so often happens these days, the working class acts within a cross class movement. Militants have to find how to develop an independent working class action. But if you don't share and are not motivated by this widespread anger the 'militant' will just go about his routine as if nothing much is happening. They will only see the conformist 'shell' of public anger and not the radical 'kernel'.
In the last piece I wrote I asked the rhetorical question, 'What would you do if you were in Ukraine, pick up a gun or what?' But I raised this in relation to my proposal that we try to start a campaign of solidarity. I wish I hadn't asked the question because it has given rise to a discussion completely separated from the question of what to do. Now this might be a useful discussion but we are not in Ukraine and it's not our urgent question. The question for us is what do we do? It's only within this discussion that the other one might be useful.
In the responses to my question about what you would do if you were in Ukraine there is the suggestion that the best thing to do would be get out. Live to fight another day. Preserve your revolutionary outlook. Yes, in moments of great defeat the revolutionaries may have no other option but to try and get away.
This was also said to me in relation to the war in Bosnia – the only thing to do would be get out. Two reasons this is wrong. First a practical one. I helped translate a biography of a man who lived in a town that got ethnically cleansed. He and two mates stayed hidden in an outhouse. For three months they survived surrounded by ethnic cleansers, living on food in a freezer but eventually the electricity failed and the food rotted. They had to make a run for it and managed to get to a nearby town which was also under control of the ethnic cleansers but his brother in law was chief of police who hid them in his garden shed. But they were living on borrowed time and so over the coming months they, and several other people similarly trapped, tried to cross over the border. All of them were killed apart from the author who finally made it to Germany.
And he was alone. Imagine you have a wife and kids or elderly parents?
My second objection to this 'get out' perspective was that within the free territories of Bosnia there was every opportunity for a militant to conduct socialist activity. The working class, emerging from 40 years of Stalinism, was very confused but certainly a real presence within the war. Why would you want to get out? And likewise in Ukraine. I'm only going over this question, which I've said is a secondary concern, because I think this 'get out' attitude feeds into how we act as militants here in the UK. Doesn't it morph into an attitude that nothing can really be done in the present situation.
Doesn't the rather individualistic approach of 'get out' and survive to fight another day, by implication, deny the right of the mass of people trapped in the cities to 'live and fight' another day, unless they surrender. Surrender to what? Organise and continue working class struggles under the occupier?
I don't want to get into another great area of pointless speculation about what's the best outcome for the Ukrainian working class, but if you think there might be better circumstances to organise the working class post defeat than in the present defence, then just look at Chechnya or Alleppo or above all, the Donbass. Yes there is nothing glorious about the emergence of the gun, whoever is in control of it. The gun is always, in one way or another, a disaster for workers, even when they have to take it up and direct it. It's always the barbarism of dying capital. And the Donbass is a good example of this. The men with the gun rule and there and, I'm told, enforce slave labour, Every Ukrainian knows this and it is partly what underpins their resistance.
But we are not in Ukraine, it's not our decision to stay and fight or not. But that is what people have done and now we have to help them. The resistance in Ukraine has no clear radical perspective but is there nothing within the Ukrainian defence with which we can identify? Is it all flag waving and patriotic shouting led by the bourgeoisie who want to defend their property and right to make money. Is it all just about NATO expansionism? Are all workers there just passive objects of the schemes of capitalists and nationalists? I don't know Ukraine society at all, but on the radio I hear over and over their call for the defence of democracy and freedom. Of course the Western 'revolutionaries' will sneer at this. Don't you know that western democracy is just the dictatorship of capital and the fight of Amazon to exploit you? Don't you know that the 'west' welcomes you to join the reserve army of labour, to fill the ranks of low paid workers?
TBC...
--------------------
When Picasso painted his depiction of the victims of the bombing of the Spanish town of Guernica in the civil war he poured onto the canvas his anger and humanity. Now rage and compassion are not enough. The Spanish people were defeated and subjected to decades of dictatorship because working class militants were mostly forced to abide by Stalin's policies of collaboration with the 'democratic' bourgeoisie.
So cool heads must prevail and discussions must be held to try to see how the working class can act over Ukraine. The discussion must be comradely and self critical since no-one around at present has shown that they have got clear answers. But, having said all this, if we are not filled with rage right now, moved by compassion, then nothing we say or do will amount to much and it will not find the necessary connection with the working class around us.
Virtually every person I meet as I go to the shops, catch a bus etc is talking about Ukraine and they are Angry and despairing. A man I met yesterday, who never usually talks politics, said first thing, 'Why can't someone get in and assassinate Putin?' and another person asked 'Why Doesn't NATO bomb that convoy outside Kiev?'
Some 'revolutionaries' will be horrified at the request for NATO to bomb. They will explain about NATO's own imperialism. For me this man's request is the kernel of the future wrapped in the shell of the present. Inside his plea is his feeling of common humanity and, given the total absence of a working class response to Ukraine, he sees no other way to prevent further massacres. And, sadly, he is right.
Across the world Governments are being forced to change their policies everyday because of this popular outrage. Even the Para Olympic committee has to do an about turn in 24 hours. Football manager say that winning matches is not as important as supporting Ukraine.
This is one of those very rare moments of upheaval in public thinking and we are trying to catch up with it or, in some cases , failing to even recognise what is happening and the possible opportunities for action. This huge swell of popular feeling, largely devoid of jingoism, erupts but of course can only find articulation in forms that ultimately cannot provide a way out and which governments will seek to turn to their own interests.
It is the job of working class militants to try to find ways to turn this outburst into something that can rebuild working class internationalism. As so often happens these days, the working class acts within a cross class movement. Militants have to find how to develop an independent working class action. But if you don't share and are not motivated by this widespread anger the 'militant' will just go about his routine as if nothing much is happening. They will only see the conformist 'shell' of public anger and not the radical 'kernel'.
In the last piece I wrote I asked the rhetorical question, 'What would you do if you were in Ukraine, pick up a gun or what?' But I raised this in relation to my proposal that we try to start a campaign of solidarity. I wish I hadn't asked the question because it has given rise to a discussion completely separated from the question of what to do. Now this might be a useful discussion but we are not in Ukraine and it's not our urgent question. The question for us is what do we do? It's only within this discussion that the other one might be useful.
In the responses to my question about what you would do if you were in Ukraine there is the suggestion that the best thing to do would be get out. Live to fight another day. Preserve your revolutionary outlook. Yes, in moments of great defeat the revolutionaries may have no other option but to try and get away.
This was also said to me in relation to the war in Bosnia – the only thing to do would be get out. Two reasons this is wrong. First a practical one. I helped translate a biography of a man who lived in a town that got ethnically cleansed. He and two mates stayed hidden in an outhouse. For three months they survived surrounded by ethnic cleansers, living on food in a freezer but eventually the electricity failed and the food rotted. They had to make a run for it and managed to get to a nearby town which was also under control of the ethnic cleansers but his brother in law was chief of police who hid them in his garden shed. But they were living on borrowed time and so over the coming months they, and several other people similarly trapped, tried to cross over the border. All of them were killed apart from the author who finally made it to Germany.
And he was alone. Imagine you have a wife and kids or elderly parents?
My second objection to this 'get out' perspective was that within the free territories of Bosnia there was every opportunity for a militant to conduct socialist activity. The working class, emerging from 40 years of Stalinism, was very confused but certainly a real presence within the war. Why would you want to get out? And likewise in Ukraine. I'm only going over this question, which I've said is a secondary concern, because I think this 'get out' attitude feeds into how we act as militants here in the UK. Doesn't it morph into an attitude that nothing can really be done in the present situation.
Doesn't the rather individualistic approach of 'get out' and survive to fight another day, by implication, deny the right of the mass of people trapped in the cities to 'live and fight' another day, unless they surrender. Surrender to what? Organise and continue working class struggles under the occupier?
I don't want to get into another great area of pointless speculation about what's the best outcome for the Ukrainian working class, but if you think there might be better circumstances to organise the working class post defeat than in the present defence, then just look at Chechnya or Alleppo or above all, the Donbass. Yes there is nothing glorious about the emergence of the gun, whoever is in control of it. The gun is always, in one way or another, a disaster for workers, even when they have to take it up and direct it. It's always the barbarism of dying capital. And the Donbass is a good example of this. The men with the gun rule and there and, I'm told, enforce slave labour, Every Ukrainian knows this and it is partly what underpins their resistance.
But we are not in Ukraine, it's not our decision to stay and fight or not. But that is what people have done and now we have to help them. The resistance in Ukraine has no clear radical perspective but is there nothing within the Ukrainian defence with which we can identify? Is it all flag waving and patriotic shouting led by the bourgeoisie who want to defend their property and right to make money. Is it all just about NATO expansionism? Are all workers there just passive objects of the schemes of capitalists and nationalists? I don't know Ukraine society at all, but on the radio I hear over and over their call for the defence of democracy and freedom. Of course the Western 'revolutionaries' will sneer at this. Don't you know that western democracy is just the dictatorship of capital and the fight of Amazon to exploit you? Don't you know that the 'west' welcomes you to join the reserve army of labour, to fill the ranks of low paid workers?
TBC...
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Part 2...
--------------
I was in the Kosovan mining town of Mitrovica when the NATO forces entered, with the miners, who had been locked out of the gold mines for ten years by the Serbian government. As Serb troops withdrew the miners rushed to try to take control of their mines, only to find that the gates were now blocked by French paratroopers. Later that evening the city turned into an open air party, I sat with a group of young students who were dancing and drinking and asked them about their feelings towards the NATO troops who were everywhere. 'We know what NATO are, they will come to rule us and exploit us, but tonight we are dancing because in our lifetimes, under the Serb regime, we have never been free to go out at night.'
I worked with the Kosova miners union. When they began to ask for NATO intervention to stop the massacres I said to them, look, NATO got you in this terrible situation. When the Dayton peace agreement was signed it explicitly said Kosova would remain under the rule of Belgrade – the Serbian capital. But the Serbian leader ,Milosevic, had long ago hitched his wagon to the extreme Serbian nationalists. These rabid racists saw Dayton as a green light to begin to kill the Albanians, a long term dream of Serb nationalism. This created havoc and NATO, fearing that Milosevic was loosing control of Kosova, started their bombing. The miners listened to me and agreed but asked who else could now save them from destruction apart from NATO? There was no international working class response to their plight, just our little convoys of solidarity, and so what could I do but continue to work with them, disagreeing with their NATO requests, and continuing to try to get a working class response to their dire situation.
So back to the Ukrainians defence of 'democracy'. They rightly compare life in the west and even recent life in Ukraine with their collective memory of life under the USSR or life, now, under Putin in the Donbass. Are they stupid to fight for the defence of this 'democracy'? You have to see the difference for a worker to live 'free' to be exploited by Amazon and the prospect of life under the gun in the Donbass.
As I say I am totally ignorant of Ukraine life and how people see things but clearly the way that Ukrainian express their opposition to Putin colours how people here react to them. Our 'left' chums in things like 'Stop the War' and everyone who has a tinge of 'our enemies enemy is our friend' only see the NATO 'shell' and not the 'kernel' of the real desire for freedom. They direct all their fire at NATO, remain a bit quiet about Putin and can't get enthusiastic about helping the Ukrainians or going on their demonstrations here because they are waving flags and not shouting 'long live the working class.'
It is extremely hard to see how, at present, independent working class solidarity can be developed but we should be using every minute to investigate how this might be done. I've already suggested a tiny thing – regular European wide demonstrations outside Russian embassies showing support for the anti-war protesters, thousands of whom have now been arrested. Putin has just brought in 15 year jail sentences for anyone telling the truth about his atrocities in Ukraine. Let's show these people their voices are being heard. Lets stand with them. I've written this morning to some UNITE members who are actively seeking ways to show support to say why don't you demand your 'international' department asks the Labour Party to raise the plight of the Syrian, African and other people who are either being denied entry into the EU or attacked by racists when they cross the border. Demand they be given asylum in the UK. Such tiny steps but this was how we got the Workers Aid convoys to Bosnia going. We had a demonstration where 15 people marched, but it was by raising the banner of worker' solidarity that we began to assemble the network of people that organised the convoys into the war.
We must assume that the war, occupation etc will continue for a long time. We have to be in this for the long haul. I know that even as Ukraine is being bombed life in many ways has to go on for everyone outside. We still have to go to work, fight our boss, feed our children etc., but if the anger is missing, if the outrage doesn't prompt you to change priorities, if you just proceed with business as usual, if you cannot find a way to turn this huge public outcry into some form of working class solidarity then as militants you are not much use.
--------------
I was in the Kosovan mining town of Mitrovica when the NATO forces entered, with the miners, who had been locked out of the gold mines for ten years by the Serbian government. As Serb troops withdrew the miners rushed to try to take control of their mines, only to find that the gates were now blocked by French paratroopers. Later that evening the city turned into an open air party, I sat with a group of young students who were dancing and drinking and asked them about their feelings towards the NATO troops who were everywhere. 'We know what NATO are, they will come to rule us and exploit us, but tonight we are dancing because in our lifetimes, under the Serb regime, we have never been free to go out at night.'
I worked with the Kosova miners union. When they began to ask for NATO intervention to stop the massacres I said to them, look, NATO got you in this terrible situation. When the Dayton peace agreement was signed it explicitly said Kosova would remain under the rule of Belgrade – the Serbian capital. But the Serbian leader ,Milosevic, had long ago hitched his wagon to the extreme Serbian nationalists. These rabid racists saw Dayton as a green light to begin to kill the Albanians, a long term dream of Serb nationalism. This created havoc and NATO, fearing that Milosevic was loosing control of Kosova, started their bombing. The miners listened to me and agreed but asked who else could now save them from destruction apart from NATO? There was no international working class response to their plight, just our little convoys of solidarity, and so what could I do but continue to work with them, disagreeing with their NATO requests, and continuing to try to get a working class response to their dire situation.
So back to the Ukrainians defence of 'democracy'. They rightly compare life in the west and even recent life in Ukraine with their collective memory of life under the USSR or life, now, under Putin in the Donbass. Are they stupid to fight for the defence of this 'democracy'? You have to see the difference for a worker to live 'free' to be exploited by Amazon and the prospect of life under the gun in the Donbass.
As I say I am totally ignorant of Ukraine life and how people see things but clearly the way that Ukrainian express their opposition to Putin colours how people here react to them. Our 'left' chums in things like 'Stop the War' and everyone who has a tinge of 'our enemies enemy is our friend' only see the NATO 'shell' and not the 'kernel' of the real desire for freedom. They direct all their fire at NATO, remain a bit quiet about Putin and can't get enthusiastic about helping the Ukrainians or going on their demonstrations here because they are waving flags and not shouting 'long live the working class.'
It is extremely hard to see how, at present, independent working class solidarity can be developed but we should be using every minute to investigate how this might be done. I've already suggested a tiny thing – regular European wide demonstrations outside Russian embassies showing support for the anti-war protesters, thousands of whom have now been arrested. Putin has just brought in 15 year jail sentences for anyone telling the truth about his atrocities in Ukraine. Let's show these people their voices are being heard. Lets stand with them. I've written this morning to some UNITE members who are actively seeking ways to show support to say why don't you demand your 'international' department asks the Labour Party to raise the plight of the Syrian, African and other people who are either being denied entry into the EU or attacked by racists when they cross the border. Demand they be given asylum in the UK. Such tiny steps but this was how we got the Workers Aid convoys to Bosnia going. We had a demonstration where 15 people marched, but it was by raising the banner of worker' solidarity that we began to assemble the network of people that organised the convoys into the war.
We must assume that the war, occupation etc will continue for a long time. We have to be in this for the long haul. I know that even as Ukraine is being bombed life in many ways has to go on for everyone outside. We still have to go to work, fight our boss, feed our children etc., but if the anger is missing, if the outrage doesn't prompt you to change priorities, if you just proceed with business as usual, if you cannot find a way to turn this huge public outcry into some form of working class solidarity then as militants you are not much use.
ska invita
back on the other side
"Ukrainians" have been asking for a no fly zone - should we support that?
No, we shouldnt.
Which opens the door for weighing up which other military requests we shouldn't support.
ska invita
back on the other side
This does seem like a good suggestion, not least becomes it also has the effect of countering anti-Russian public sentiments. Russian people are victims in this too.
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
Our branch committee just voted to donate to the Red Cross Ukraine appeal and to support in principle the idea of donating to a group doing anti-war/anti-repression work in Russia. Considering the difficulties we've had in trying to donate to a registered and certified UK trade union, I reckon us being able to donate to Moscow ABC is probably unlikely, but something like Rights in Russia might be doable?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
Yeah, the war will be 'won' by what happens internally in Russia as much as Ukraine I think. Maybe you'd be happier providing weapons to Russian resistance movements.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
I went to my CLP meeting last night - which doesn't really count as part of 'the left' except in the vaguest sense, but this still seems like the most suitable thread, so....
Fuck me but it was depressing. Our MP achieved a new level of absolute useleseness. Normally she just drones on about how Labour are in opposition so we cant do anything. This time was just an 'oh my god isn't it awful? Those poor Ukrainians. What can we do? I think NATO are going to have to do something about it.' And that was it. The discussion following was just a string of similar cries of horror and madman narrative bollocks until someone did mention that we should be a bit critical of NATO too and be careful they dont exacerbate the situation further. I bet you can guess how well that went down, NATO are the only ones who can save us! Are you saying that plucky little Ukraine doesn't have the right to ask to join NATO? Christ, even pointing out how the demonstrators in Russia could be arrested under Patel's Police, Crime & Policing Bill was unacceptable!
I walked out, but that doesn't really make much of an impression in a zoom meeting and your camera was already off.
Fuck me but it was depressing. Our MP achieved a new level of absolute useleseness. Normally she just drones on about how Labour are in opposition so we cant do anything. This time was just an 'oh my god isn't it awful? Those poor Ukrainians. What can we do? I think NATO are going to have to do something about it.' And that was it. The discussion following was just a string of similar cries of horror and madman narrative bollocks until someone did mention that we should be a bit critical of NATO too and be careful they dont exacerbate the situation further. I bet you can guess how well that went down, NATO are the only ones who can save us! Are you saying that plucky little Ukraine doesn't have the right to ask to join NATO? Christ, even pointing out how the demonstrators in Russia could be arrested under Patel's Police, Crime & Policing Bill was unacceptable!
I walked out, but that doesn't really make much of an impression in a zoom meeting and your camera was already off.
Nikkormat
Well-Known Member
Fuck leftist westplaining - Freedom News
Earlier this week, the Polish parliamentary progressive left party, Razem, issued a statement in which they announce that they are cutting ties with two European organisations: Progressive International and DiEM25. “The Russian aggression in Ukraine demands a lot of work from us and-...
freedomnews.org.uk
Apologies if this has been posted before. From my observations in Czech Republic and of Polish anarchist friends, the above article is pretty much right on.
ska invita
back on the other side
good rantFuck leftist westplaining - Freedom News
Earlier this week, the Polish parliamentary progressive left party, Razem, issued a statement in which they announce that they are cutting ties with two European organisations: Progressive International and DiEM25. “The Russian aggression in Ukraine demands a lot of work from us and-...
Apologies if this has been posted before. From my observations in Czech Republic and of Polish anarchist friends, the above article is pretty much right on.
The key question within it, I think, is: "Further, you talk about how you desire to stop “NATO expansion” but you don’t really mention what, exactly, would be a viable alternative to it."
-I think at this point there is no alternative to a massive pile up of arms on the NATO eastern border. The question of alternatives is over for decades to come, and a new arms curtain will be in place.
The question of what could've been done differently preceding this has may answers and possibilities. Of course there were alternatives, politics isn't an immutable force of nature. To discuss those earlier alternatives is now academic as the immediate military defence of other eastern european countries is now an unstoppable conclusion. Though it is worth thinking about them, and concluding that there were options. To not do so is to fall into the imperial-endless-war-ideology trap.
rekil
to menny cranks
Fuck leftist westplaining - Freedom News
Earlier this week, the Polish parliamentary progressive left party, Razem, issued a statement in which they announce that they are cutting ties with two European organisations: Progressive International and DiEM25. “The Russian aggression in Ukraine demands a lot of work from us and-...
Apologies if this has been posted before. From my observations in Czech Republic and of Polish anarchist friends, the above article is pretty much right on.
It's by this Zosia Brom.
beeley said:
hitmouse
so defeated, thinks it's funny
There's several threads this could go on, but here's one of them: day of protests called for Sunday March 6, endorsed by Stop the War, under the slogan: "Stop the War in Ukraine. Russian Troops Out. No to NATO expansion."
www.peaceinukraine.org
I realise some people may not be particularly enthusiastic about that framing or set of organisers, but this Sunday is also a big day called by the Russian anti-war movement:
Spring Is Coming: Take to the Streets against the War
So, I guess, feel free to make your own decision about whether that seems like something you want to support?
Peace in Ukraine
www.peaceinukraine.org
I realise some people may not be particularly enthusiastic about that framing or set of organisers, but this Sunday is also a big day called by the Russian anti-war movement:
Spring Is Coming: Take to the Streets against the War
So, I guess, feel free to make your own decision about whether that seems like something you want to support?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
russia out of ukraine, johnson into jailThere's several threads this could go on, but here's one of them: day of protests called for Sunday March 6, endorsed by Stop the War, under the slogan: "Stop the War in Ukraine. Russian Troops Out. No to NATO expansion."
Peace in Ukraine
I realise some people may not be particularly enthusiastic about that framing or set of organisers, but this Sunday is also a big day called by the Russian anti-war movement:
Spring Is Coming: Take to the Streets against the War
So, I guess, feel free to make your own decision about whether that seems like something you want to support?
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
There's several threads this could go on, but here's one of them: day of protests called for Sunday March 6, endorsed by Stop the War, under the slogan: "Stop the War in Ukraine. Russian Troops Out. No to NATO expansion."
Peace in Ukraine
I realise some people may not be particularly enthusiastic about that framing or set of organisers, but this Sunday is also a big day called by the Russian anti-war movement:
Spring Is Coming: Take to the Streets against the War
So, I guess, feel free to make your own decision about whether that seems like something you want to support?
I had a look at their website earlier, and also saw calls for Galloway's Workers Party to distribute leaflets there (won't link to them, but you can imagine the content) and there is no way in hell I would go to those StW demos. I honestly think the main people involved in them are absolute fucking poison and need a good kicking. CND and any other organisations working with them should get a grip of themselves.
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dessiato
🇪🇸 my spirit is crying for leaving
I've thought long and hard about this. A big part of me would volunteer if I were younger and fit enough. It reminds me too much of how, prior to WW2, there was too much appeasement until things got far too bad to ignore.
If the Russians aren't stopped now, or shown that this is not acceptable, where will they stop?
If the Russians aren't stopped now, or shown that this is not acceptable, where will they stop?
discokermit
Well-Known Member
you could still be useful im sure. dont let age stop you, you are as young as you feel! you would soon get fit with the rigours of military life and you could maybe get put in a less intense post. like cooking or summat. every little helps. it really is your duty, if you believe the russians are about to roll over europe.
dessiato
🇪🇸 my spirit is crying for leaving
Heart problems, COPD, cataracts, overweight, old, can’t see anyone accepting me.
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