The US secret war
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Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Mears,
what you don't seem to realise is that many of us here are disgusted at these practices not just beacause they are cruel or counter productive.
We are also fearful of states that can lock up people they consider a threat and disappear them to secret camps without charge, evidence or trial. Its the signature of shitty, oppressive regimes throuhout history and more recently such bastions of freedom and democracy as Apartheid South Africa, Chile, the USSR, Burma, Iraq, Iran, North Korea and far too many others. Even more scary is that the US can pick up not just their own citizens in their own country, but anyone else in dozens of other countries.
Its not wet liberal nonsense, its a basic condition of being a free human being. Many thousands have fought and died, and continue to do so, to protect themselves and the rest of humanity from the depravity and oppression of states that can take total control of an individual's life (and often, death).
Nice to see which side of the fence you're on.
what you don't seem to realise is that many of us here are disgusted at these practices not just beacause they are cruel or counter productive.
We are also fearful of states that can lock up people they consider a threat and disappear them to secret camps without charge, evidence or trial. Its the signature of shitty, oppressive regimes throuhout history and more recently such bastions of freedom and democracy as Apartheid South Africa, Chile, the USSR, Burma, Iraq, Iran, North Korea and far too many others. Even more scary is that the US can pick up not just their own citizens in their own country, but anyone else in dozens of other countries.
Its not wet liberal nonsense, its a basic condition of being a free human being. Many thousands have fought and died, and continue to do so, to protect themselves and the rest of humanity from the depravity and oppression of states that can take total control of an individual's life (and often, death).
Nice to see which side of the fence you're on.
Red Jezza said:
We can debate the reasons why another attack has not been launched by Islamic radicals against the US but the fact remains that there has not been a terrorist attack since 9-11.
I think the CIA deserves some credit for this. Islamic radicals have attacked in places such as Bali, Spain, Egypt, Turkey, England and Indonesia since 9-11. Yet nothing in America.
George Bush and his administration must be doing something right.
mears said:
... because you never ever seem to start at the beginning. Nobody hates others for no reason at all. If people are prepared to strike at the USA, then why do you never look for any valid reasons? Why do you think they struck?
In my book you have been treated remarkably leniently by any 'terrorists'.
You're wiring is loose coz you just will not look at causes. Your CIA thugs have been causing fucking mayhem in many countries for decades now. Whatever good traits are in american people (and obviously they exist), your whole psyche is tainted by this urge to batter people, to win, to be number one.
It don't half look pathetic i'm afraid. A bit more compassion for folk would go a long way. You're condoning torture on fellow human beings. That is unforgiveable really. Harm nature and you harm yourself. You'd do well to consider that piece of wisdom.
And one more comment while i'm on it: a country that executes its citizens in cold blood, in pure acts of premeditation, can only, ONLY, be described as barbaric. USA, singapore, china, iran, saudi arabia... you have good company.
It's completely anti-human. Sort your fucking selves out man.
mears said:
NO, I'M FUCKING SORRY, but this is getting too distasteful for words. Why does your bloody world stop at the borders of the USA??? Yeah, bush is doing something right, in fact he's doing it so much better than when he was a mere governor thug, grinning salaciously as he denied final appeals from those on texan death row. Now he gets to kill THOUSANDS of humans, and even better, they don't have american blood, but hey, that's only a minor detail. After all blood is blood and it's all red.
Your CIA are the most disgusting example of humanity on our whole planet, and you're saying they should get some credit. You're fucking warped mate, WARPED. I've treated you with respect in the past, despite disagreeing with almost everything you say, but the things you're saying on this thread our simply anti-human. You need to find out what compassion and understanding mean. You're completely empty on them. You talk about humans in the same way as your leaders: like they are just figures in a game of maths. It's fucking sick man. Do yourself a favour, go away somewhere and do some serious thinking.
Harm nature and you harm yourself. You better start realising this so that you can wake up and get a life before you die. Coz you ain't got one now mate.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
mears said:
No, but just over (and possibly more than) 2 000 US troops have been killed since the beginning of the Iraq invasion - that must fill your heart with joy, you gutless wonder. Instead of killing Yanks on US soil, they kill them elsewhere...in places like Iraq and Afghanistan (we don't talk about that place anymore - do we?). Don't get too cocky, boyo....besides, Hurricane Katrina tore away the veil; the illusion has been shattered.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
mears said:
Bali is part of Indonesia you fucking knob.
For Mears
This a poem from someone who spent some time on the front lines in a different dirty USG/CIA affair, from the start of the American Holocaust in Central America, but perhaps Mears these words will entertain you...
Them days at least our government had the good sense to try and hide it; these days they're proud of it.
We as a nation have been hugely disgraced by the actions of GWB and his henchmen. Bush on so many things rises light-years above the threshold set by Republicans for "high crimes and misdemeanors" when they impeached Bill Clinton, their failure to act now reveals the base hipocrisy that underlies all they do.
How do you sleep at night, Mears? Ambien? Something stronger?
This a poem from someone who spent some time on the front lines in a different dirty USG/CIA affair, from the start of the American Holocaust in Central America, but perhaps Mears these words will entertain you...
RETURN
...go try on
Americans your long, dull story
of corruption, but better to give
them what they want: Lil Milagro Ramirez,
who after years of confinement did not
know what year it was, how she walked
with help and was forced to s*it in public.
Tell them about the razor, the live wire,
dry ice and concrete, grey rats and above all
who f*cked her, how many times and when.
Tell them about retaliation: Jose lying
on the flat bed trick, waving his stumps
in your face, his hands cut off by his
captors and thrown to the many acres
of cotton, still, and holding
the lasr few lumps of leeched earth.
Tell them of Jose in his last few hours
and later, many months later,
a labor leader was cut to pieces and buried.
Tell them how his friends found
the soldiers and made them dig him up
and ask forgiveness of the corpse, once
it was assembled again on the ground
like a man. As for the cars, of course
they watch you and for this don't flatter
yourself. We are all watched. We are
all assembled.
<snip>
And so, you say, you've learned a little
about starvation: a child like a supper scrap
filling with worms, many children strung
together, as if they were cut from paper
and all in a delicate chain. And that people
who rescue physicists, lawyers and poets
lie in their beds at night with reports
of mice introduced into women, of men
whose testicles are crushed like eggs.
That they cup their own parts
with their bedsheets and move themselves
slowly, imagining bracelets affixing
their wrists to a wall where the naked
are pinned, where the naked are tied open
and left to the hands of those who erase
what they touch. We are all erased
by them, and no longer resemble decent
men. We no longer have the hearts,
the strength, the lives of women.
Your problem is not your life as it is
in America, not that your hands, as you
tell me, are tied to do something. It is
that you were born to an island of greed
and grace where you have this sense
of yourself as apart from others. It is
not your right to feel powerless. Better
people than you were powerless.
You have not returned to your country,
but to a life you never left.
-- Carolyn Forche, 1980
Mears I seem to recall posting the above for you before, somewhere post 9-11, me bewildered then how any thinking human being in the US would even tolerate a discussion of a USG option for torture. It is simply and absolutely impermissible. But, fools that we are, the Salvadorean torturers Carolyn refers to in her poem were TRAINED at the School of the Americas, Ft. Benning, Georgia, with refresher courses throughout the eighties and early nineties....go try on
Americans your long, dull story
of corruption, but better to give
them what they want: Lil Milagro Ramirez,
who after years of confinement did not
know what year it was, how she walked
with help and was forced to s*it in public.
Tell them about the razor, the live wire,
dry ice and concrete, grey rats and above all
who f*cked her, how many times and when.
Tell them about retaliation: Jose lying
on the flat bed trick, waving his stumps
in your face, his hands cut off by his
captors and thrown to the many acres
of cotton, still, and holding
the lasr few lumps of leeched earth.
Tell them of Jose in his last few hours
and later, many months later,
a labor leader was cut to pieces and buried.
Tell them how his friends found
the soldiers and made them dig him up
and ask forgiveness of the corpse, once
it was assembled again on the ground
like a man. As for the cars, of course
they watch you and for this don't flatter
yourself. We are all watched. We are
all assembled.
<snip>
And so, you say, you've learned a little
about starvation: a child like a supper scrap
filling with worms, many children strung
together, as if they were cut from paper
and all in a delicate chain. And that people
who rescue physicists, lawyers and poets
lie in their beds at night with reports
of mice introduced into women, of men
whose testicles are crushed like eggs.
That they cup their own parts
with their bedsheets and move themselves
slowly, imagining bracelets affixing
their wrists to a wall where the naked
are pinned, where the naked are tied open
and left to the hands of those who erase
what they touch. We are all erased
by them, and no longer resemble decent
men. We no longer have the hearts,
the strength, the lives of women.
Your problem is not your life as it is
in America, not that your hands, as you
tell me, are tied to do something. It is
that you were born to an island of greed
and grace where you have this sense
of yourself as apart from others. It is
not your right to feel powerless. Better
people than you were powerless.
You have not returned to your country,
but to a life you never left.
-- Carolyn Forche, 1980
Them days at least our government had the good sense to try and hide it; these days they're proud of it.
We as a nation have been hugely disgraced by the actions of GWB and his henchmen. Bush on so many things rises light-years above the threshold set by Republicans for "high crimes and misdemeanors" when they impeached Bill Clinton, their failure to act now reveals the base hipocrisy that underlies all they do.
How do you sleep at night, Mears? Ambien? Something stronger?
Well......
Six tales of rendition and torture printed in the Guardian
There really is a lot of evidence out there, you know. Of course, the complainants are mostly brown and have beards, precluding many from believing their stories. But I'm sure reasonable people would consider their testimony to be a good prima facie case that the US is using torture, even by its own lame definition of the word.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
mears said:
Repeating canards doesn't make them any truer.
It also doesn't negate your obviously woeful ignorance of geography.
ViolentPanda said:
Following me around again. Its sad because I think you are actually an older person and not some 18 year old anarchist which might explain your behavior.
I keep repeating it because you were unable to come up with a way to measure human prosperity, standard of living, even though you criticized my meathods. It speaks volumes, always easier to bitch than come up with something concrete.
Here come the fancy words!
Oww Will You just do the Thearapy!!!
Dont ya remember?
Go out away from town find an empty field where ya wont bother anybody
go out in the middle of the field clench your fists and hold them up to the sky and shout I hate Americaaaa !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do this contiously for at least an hour a day
If after an hour if you are not satisfied fall the ground and punch the earth with your fists.
go once in the morning and once just after dark.
eventually you will feel better
Dont ya remember?
Go out away from town find an empty field where ya wont bother anybody
go out in the middle of the field clench your fists and hold them up to the sky and shout I hate Americaaaa !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do this contiously for at least an hour a day
If after an hour if you are not satisfied fall the ground and punch the earth with your fists.
go once in the morning and once just after dark.
eventually you will feel better
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Don't flatter yourself, If I were a stalker I certainly wouldn't stalk a two-bit arsehole like you.mears said:
Fuck off. You keep saying this, I keep telling you I DID post alternative methods on that thread.
Go back, check it out.
Ko'orvya Mat are the only words I have for you.Here come the fancy words!
Now stop derailing the thread, shithead.
ViolentPanda said:
No you didn't. Its OK because I know you are angry there is one superpower that calls the shots. You are angry that this superpowers standard of living is higher than your country and Europe as a whole. And Geroge W. Bush is the most poweful man in the world. Gets your blood boiling I know
But none of this will end anytime soon
I'm afraid you will have to get used to it.
Yossarian said:
Right, just like many who predicted Americans would all be speaking German when the waves of German immigrants came to make a better life for themselves in the US in the 1800's.
Now you are correct about the rise of China. A unipolar world will not exist forever, but probably will continue for many years to come.
We will move to a bipolar world (US and China) or a tripolar world (India, China and the US).
Europe will continue to be on the sidelines. Its been thousands of years since Europe retained such a diminished role in world affiars. The Eurocentric world ended in 1945 and is not coming back anytime soon.
I understand this contributes to that chip on the shoulder.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Oi mears!
I asked you which of the following you think are fine and dandy but you seem to have ignored my post.
being made to stand motionless for hours on end (often in the cold),
- being threatened (like with dogs) but not actually harmed.
- being sexually humiliated (i.e having female staff take pictures of you and laugh at your dick)
- being held indefinitely without charge
- not being told the evidence against you
- not having access to a legal advice
- your freinds and family not being told where you are or what you are being charged with
- being held in secret without any public knowledge of you wherabouts (i.e 'disapperared').
(edited to add these delights at Violent Pandas suggesiton)
- being awakened every time you fall asleep.
- being deprived of toilet facilities and forced to foul yourself
- being deprived of sustenance
- having pharmaceuticals or salt added to your food/water.
I asked you which of the following you think are fine and dandy but you seem to have ignored my post.
being made to stand motionless for hours on end (often in the cold),
- being threatened (like with dogs) but not actually harmed.
- being sexually humiliated (i.e having female staff take pictures of you and laugh at your dick)
- being held indefinitely without charge
- not being told the evidence against you
- not having access to a legal advice
- your freinds and family not being told where you are or what you are being charged with
- being held in secret without any public knowledge of you wherabouts (i.e 'disapperared').
(edited to add these delights at Violent Pandas suggesiton)
- being awakened every time you fall asleep.
- being deprived of toilet facilities and forced to foul yourself
- being deprived of sustenance
- having pharmaceuticals or salt added to your food/water.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
mears, we've seen the standard of living in New Orleans and I'm quite proud that Europe isn't like that.mears said:
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