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The Trump presidency

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aye, and The Shire at the centre of the safe universe is the ultimate little England fantasy ;)

the orcs of tolkein, to be fair, are creatures magicked out of the mud, created to kill. Fair game really.
In WoW not only are they three dimensional characters, but they are oppressed by a dictator orc!

I did enjoy the WoW movie. :)

I've not read The Silmarilion, but I think there was more to it than they were made of mud (the kind of notion Bannon would be at home with mind), something to do with degenerate elves? Probably down to un-christian lifestyle choices anyway. Not that Tolkien was that Narnia guy but whatever.
 
Reported on BBC too, and pretty much every major media outlet.

It is a pretty big deal actually. Trump seems to want the EU to break apart. The EU obviously is not happy about this. So the traditional alliance between the USA and the EU may be no more. It's certainly worthy of discussion.
right: but it should be discussed for what it is, rather than an 'extraordinary attack on Donald Trump'.
 
Reported on BBC too, and pretty much every major media outlet.

It is a pretty big deal actually. Trump seems to want the EU to break apart. The EU obviously is not happy about this. So the traditional alliance between the USA and the EU may be no more. It's certainly worthy of discussion.

Not sure Trump the Barbarian would be enough to spoil that relationship.
 
I noticed this in a minute by minute from the White House speech

"7.25am: Trump will be moving to the 'winter' White House in Mar-a-Largo later this week - his personal mansion."


The only people who can stay there are the very, very rich. I checked and this is the estate that raised doubled it's enrolment fees from !00,00$ to 200,00$ after the inauguration. (also $2000 a night)

I wonder if this is a way to get away from the protesters, or a way to be surrounded by people of his kind.
 
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Well, comparing him to Hitler, sure. I know they are different yadda yadda yadda, but the magnitude of "bad" represented by Trump compared to Clinton is comparable. Clinton would have been the same old shite, but Trump represents a threat to basic liberal democracy.

I can remember the ushering in of the Fourth Reich when Boris Johnson was elected as Mayor of London.
 
The issue with all these kind of products is the concept that you have good "races" and evil "races" and warlike "races" and money-grubbing "races". It's all very dodge really, these race-based notions. The races in question not actually existing or being human in the first place becomes (in my view) less significant than the concept and the language of the concept itself. It's like they build up the chasis that later on can be loaded with whatever for real-world application.

From Lord of the Rings to Star Trek, watching any of these things becomes to an extent a disturbing insight inside of the mind of yer Stephan Bannons of the world, and the gleaming white cities they feel they are defending. In many cases we even see out and out wars of annihilation perpetrated by one race against another... the orcs and goblins in LotR for example can be wiped-out entirely by the tall beautiful elf people and their North European human and dour dwarf allies. The money-grubbing Ferenghi, the Logical Vulcans, the war-like Klingons (that somehow took enough of a break from obsessing about conflict all the time to gaze up at the stars and wonder and build star-ships so they could be a military threat to everyone)... if that sort of thinking is good enough for Middle Earth or the Federation, why not Regular Earth?

I'm being half playful and half serious really, but I'm convinced this sort of thing is part of the cultural mythology that manifests in other more serious ways than entertaining tales about stuff that never happened on a map of a place that never existed. Anyway, just a bit of harmless banter I'm sure.

The trope is called Planet of Hats. Like all tropes it can be done in a shallow and simplistic way which results in the audience asking more questions than they get answers for. Better implementations actually explore the implications of say, a warrior-based society and how it got into space.
 
the orcs of tolkein, to be fair, are creatures magicked out of the mud, created to kill. Fair game really.

Tolkien kinda wrestled with the nature of Orcs, pretty much up until the end of his life. Basically their origins were as Elves - of extremely ancient times - corrupted and ruined by the slow tortures of Melkor, Sauron's boss. He fretted a lot about things like: to what extent they still had agency of their own, whether they were immortal, what happened to them after body death etc. He was weird like that, I suppose.

/end very odd sidetrack in trump thread
 
I can remember the ushering in of the Fourth Reich when Boris Johnson was elected as Mayor of London.

Who said anything about Boris Johnson? I would put him in the "same old shite" category, not the "threat to democracy" category. Trump is not the same at all, can you really not see that?
 
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I think you're underestimating what a big change Trump represents. Trump, and Bannon, want the EU to break apart and seem likely to work towards that goal. There will not be friendly relations anymore.
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One of the key reasons the EU exists was to be a trading bloc able to complete against the likes of the US. The America First ideology, you would expect based on what we've seen so far, no doubt wishes to weaken all competitors, whatever the cost. Its going to be a rude awakening for Europeans having the US actively against them... us.

Then again Tusk has a chance to rally the EU horses by describing an existential threat, and try to change to narrative of EU break up.

Both things could well be true simultaneously - not mutually exclusive.
 

It is really difficult to tell if Trump is seriously incompetent, or trying to stage a coup. I just read this comment here:
From the outside, it's impossible to tell if Trump is staging a coup or totally incompetent

Let me explain how observational equivalence works with an example. President Trump may have brought Steve Bannon into the NSC because he is consolidating power and intends to sideline all regular establishment players in the formulation of American foreign policy. Or he might have brought Bannon into the NSC because he is so isolated that he needs someone who he believes he can trust, and everyone in the foreign policy establishment is dragging feet and dissembling. The former is a sign of strength. The latter is a sign of weakness. Both have the same observable implication.

Another example: the swift release of President Trump’s Executive Order on immigration without much advice or feedback from the affected bureaucracies may be evidence that the administration is completely centralizing control within the office of the president. Or it might be because the administration does not understand standard operating procedures in a presidential administration. Or it might be because they worry that they have lost the narrative, need to do something, and a gross Nazi is calling the shots. Again, only the first is a sign of strength. The latter two are signs of weakness. All three of the same observable implications, but have radically different interpretations.
Let me explain how observational equivalence works with an example. President Trump may have brought Steve Bannon into the NSC because he is consolidating power and intends to sideline all regular establishment players in the formulation of American foreign policy. Or he might have brought Bannon into the NSC because he is so isolated that he needs someone who he believes he can trust, and everyone in the foreign policy establishment is dragging feet and dissembling. The former is a sign of strength. The latter is a sign of weakness. Both have the same observable implication.

Another example: the swift release of President Trump’s Executive Order on immigration without much advice or feedback from the affected bureaucracies may be evidence that the administration is completely centralizing control within the office of the president. Or it might be because the administration does not understand standard operating procedures in a presidential administration. Or it might be because they worry that they have lost the narrative, need to do something, and a gross Nazi is calling the shots. Again, only the first is a sign of strength. The latter two are signs of weakness. All three of the same observable implications, but have radically different interpretations.
 
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One of the key reasons the EU exists was to be a trading bloc able to complete against the likes of the US. The America First ideology, you would expect based on what we've seen so far, no doubt wishes to weaken all competitors, whatever the cost. Its going to be a rude awakening for Europeans having the US actively against them... us.

Then again Tusk has a chance to rally the EU horses by describing an existential threat, and try to change to narrative of EU break up.

Both things could well be true simultaneously - not mutually exclusive.

Yep, it is a crisitunity for the EU.

It will be interesting to see how the bad press about Trump affects the French Election. I can't imagine his performance thus far doing Le Pen any favours.
 
Trump's a blithering idiot. If there's a cleverly orchestrated coup underway its not him thats making the moves is it, he's busy googling average hand size & tweeting about "bad dudes".
 
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.....OK but .....

alot of his voters actually want to metaphorically blow up Washington - even the Republican Party members - and will be absolutley revelling in the media pearl-clutching & horror stories that just conjure up an image of Steve Bannon running up and down wood panelled corridors like some rabid pit-bull savaging glossy-haired expensively-suited extras from the West Wing

I can't see any reason to suppose his immigration order is going to be anything other than very popular with a large section of his supporters - the "shambles" narrative attached to international travellers being rounded-up & "papieren bitte" stuff at airports will look much more like the smack of firm government & restoration of order in redneck country

I do think it possible to actually over-hype the short to medium term degree of even a Trump shambles - in the breadth & depth of outrage currently being generated - firstly you can't maintain that pitch indefinitley & you can also end up not unlike the situation of the Remainer / Project Fear campaign who still found themselves on the defensive against a shambolic & decapitated Tory government facing a colossal possibly existential crisis with absolutely no coherent plan or idea how to deal with it post Referendum - when things ended up failing to match the public perception that the sky was supposed to fall in immediately
Oh for God's sake Project Fear? As conjured by the OECD: i.e.~ 2% less UK growth by 2030 if the UK left the EU. Which the UK might actually embark on in 2019, maybe, perhaps. Oh, the giddy daring, it's like standing up on the merry go round and pissing into the wind.

When Trump got elected this all basically became parochial British bollocks. Brexit is much less relevant in Europe than Trump promising a trade war and supporting the European far right. That's leaning a lot further forward than his timid UKIP chums had.

Neither the main Leave campaign or Remain really conceived of a Trump victory. A US President really fucking destructively with the delicate international system in order to rebalance it the favour of the overwhelmingly strong US. Brexit for most Leave voters was meant to be a speed bump. It was a revolt often by comfortable folk confident of an institutional safety net.

There was essentially a smug idea that the US and NATO would provide still waters as the UK danced away the EU. A Leave vote perhaps enabling the European insurgent right was not meant to be casually lighting the blue touch paper on the entire international system. Even if a few up their own arse Brits like Farage might see it that way now like really defective Mitford sisters.

May's only response is a deep kowtow while pleading that UK citizens be exempted from authoritarian dictat. Be careful about what you wish for.
 
The thing I find really puzzling is seeing Americans applauding Trump as a 'Christian'; though my guess is it means as 'white with no funny foreign names', seeing as the guy has shown no sign of any spiritual life whatsoever beyond looking bored in Church. I'm more Christian than Trump and I'm Jewish. Well, I suppose I'm more Christian than Trump because I'm Jewish.
 
The thing I find really puzzling is seeing Americans applauding Trump as a 'Christian'; though my guess is it means as 'white with no funny foreign names', seeing as the guy has shown no sign of any spiritual life whatsoever beyond looking bored in Church. I'm more Christian than Trump and I'm Jewish. Well, I suppose I'm more Christian than Trump because I'm Jewish.

I think the evangelicals were willing to support Trump to get the guy they really wanted. I think they really voted for Pence, hoping that Trump would either fuck up or die, or perhaps both.

I still laugh at Donald Trump saying that "two Corinthians" was his favorite bible verse.
 
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