The Trump presidency

[krtek a houby]

Trump is a threat to Europe...

The EU just made an extraordinary attack on Donald Trump

 

[killer b]

I think we can safely consign the independent to the same dustbin we've put the canary and occupy democrats

 

[Flavour]

they've been steadily getting more clickbaity for a couple of years. since the print edition died it's really taken on a whole new life.

 

[hot air baboon]

Hysterically calling Trump an all controlling Nazi is playing entirely into his tiny hands politically.

The Nazi thing didn't work with Dubya either or Reagan or Nixon. It's just rushing to a infantile safe space. <snip>

You have to chip away his support's confidence in him. That's not high; a lot of people that voted for him did so with trepidation about how he'd do as President and so far it's a shambles.<snip>

.....OK but .....

alot of his voters actually want to metaphorically blow up Washington - even the Republican Party members - and will be absolutley revelling in the media pearl-clutching & horror stories that just conjure up an image of Steve Bannon running up and down wood panelled corridors like some rabid pit-bull savaging glossy-haired expensively-suited extras from the West Wing

I can't see any reason to suppose his immigration order is going to be anything other than very popular with a large section of his supporters - the "shambles" narrative attached to international travellers being rounded-up & "papieren bitte" stuff at airports will look much more like the smack of firm government & restoration of order in redneck country

I do think it possible to actually over-hype the short to medium term degree of even a Trump shambles - in the breadth & depth of outrage currently being generated - firstly you can't maintain that pitch indefinitley & you can also end up not unlike the situation of the Remainer / Project Fear campaign who still found themselves on the defensive against a shambolic & decapitated Tory government facing a colossal possibly existential crisis with absolutely no coherent plan or idea how to deal with it post Referendum - when things ended up failing to match the public perception that the sky was supposed to fall in immediately

 

[camouflage]

The spray-tan thing I can see, but that's not the only aspect of the man being ridiculed by this picture IMO.

It's important to note that the issue of body-shaming Trump isn't truly about him. On reflection I think it's not really possible to ''bully'' the president of the USA, who for all practical purposes has more power than anyone else in the world. Plus this particular person doesn't seem to have any actual shame in the first place so shaming is rather moot from his PoV.

But there are plenty of middle-aged and old folks who look like this. Widespread laughing at his physical grotesqueness may feel to them a lot like widespread laughing at theirs.

You make me feel weird about comparing Trump to Gothmog the other day...

It's not that Trump actually looks like Gothmog, rather the idea that Gothmogs face is as ugly as Trumps character was my point. However there are people out there dealing with physical and facial disfigurment every day, we should move away from the idea that disfigurement is the same thing as evil, me and Peter Jackson both. Gothmog was still the evil general whose orc armies were assaulting the gleaming white city of the good people though, which pretty accurately portrays how a lot of people feel about his presidency so far so...

Lord of the Rings is racist anyway -> some other thread.

 

[emanymton]

More conspiracy theory crap

It seems like a lot of generally sensible people have lost the ability to think critically.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

 

[bimble]

"The lack of a paper trail documenting the decision-making process is also troubling, the intelligence official said. For example, under previous administrations, after a principals or deputies meeting of the National Security Council, the discussion, the final agreement, and the recommendations would be written up in what’s called a “summary of conclusions” — or SOC in government-speak. [..]

During the first week of the Trump administration, there were no SOCs, the intelligence official said. In fact, according to him, there is surprisingly very little paper being generated, and whatever paper there is, the NSC staff is not privy to it. He sees this as a deterioration of transparency and accountability.

“It would worry me if written records of these meeting were eliminated, because they contribute to good governance,” Waxman said.

Steve Bannon Is Making Sure There’s No White House Paper Trail, Says Intel Source

 

[emanymton]

Sure, Clinton is bad, just like the Weimar Republic was bad, but there really is a much bigger problem right now.

This is exactly the thinking that got is where we are now.

We must support the lesser evil!

Which just leads us down a path of ever deeper shit, and straight to Trump.

 

[hot air baboon]

same thing was happening at the IMF during the Greek / Euro crisis according to their governance watchdog - they've got no paperwork or sign-offs for alot of the decisions taken to put Greece on the rack

 

[Raheem]

This is exactly the thinking that got is where we are now.

We must support the lesser evil!

Which just leads us down a path of ever deeper shit, and straight to Trump.

I think all Rimbaud was saying is we ought to recognise the lesser evil. And it's pretty difficult not to.

 

[Cloo]

You have to chip away his support's confidence in him. That's not high; a lot of people that voted for him did so with trepidation about how he'd do as President and so far it's a shambles. Go for his flanks and attack his supposed strengths. Keep It Simple Stupid. No big words, no fancy theories. Be petty, be personal, be childishly rude, transgress all politeness, play him at his own low game. Call a corrupt flailing twit what he is. Start every tweet and headline with "Failing Donald Trump" and he'll hang himself.

I like the idea I saw on FB today that if he starts blacklisting press outfits, they show all his press conferences on time delay so they can highlight all the lies as it's transmitted But tying his name to 'failing' would also be pretty good.

RW Twitter today I am noting there's a lot of 'HAH! The Obama administration did a bad thing, so your argument is invalid', ie pointing out the ban-list of countries was drawn up under it (yeah, except they didn't rush to shut everyone from them out of the US in a move so sudden that banned people were in transit and immigration enforcers had no idea what they were supposed to do). They don't seem to recognise that liberals don't necessarily hold the last administration as a sacred cow, I'm quite sure Obama and co also chickened of out potentially upsetting Saudi and Egypt etc because of business, US army presence etc reasons and Hilary would have as well.

But it works both way, no one's going to make people who think Trump is great see him as other than a straight-talking, decisive action man.

 

[two sheds]

You'd hope that highlighting where he goes against the constitution would be good, too, as mentioned above somewhere. Opens up the opportunity for any liberals who might get in next time to come for gun rights.

 

[TomUS]

We must support the lesser evil!

Indeed we must. I didn't think Clinton was evil, but if I did, I still would have voted for her. That's life. We can't have everything.

Speaking to Al-Jazeera, the celebrated American philosopher and linguist argued the election was a case of voting for the lesser of two evils and told those who decided not to do so: “I think they’re making a bad mistake.”...
“There are two issues,” he said. “One is a kind of moral issue: do you vote against the greater evil if you don’t happen to like the other candidate? The answer to that is yes. If you have any moral understanding, you want to keep the greater evil out...“Second is a factual question: how do Trump and Clinton compare? I think they’re very different. I didn’t like Clinton at all, but her positions are much better than Trump’s on every issue I can think of.”

Noam Chomsky on the biggest mistake the left made in this election

 

[ska invita]

You make me feel weird about comparing Trump to Gothmog the other day...

It's not that Trump actually looks like Gothmog, rather the idea that Gothmogs face is as ugly as Trumps character was my point. However there are people out there dealing with physical and facial disfigurment every day, we should move away from the idea that disfigurement is the same thing as evil, me and Peter Jackson both. Gothmog was still the evil general whose orc armies were assaulting the gleaming white city of the good people though, which pretty accurately portrays how a lot of people feel about his presidency so far so...

Lord of the Rings is racist anyway -> some other thread.

the World of Warcraft film finally broke the orkist barrier and shows orcs as warriors, yes, but also as sensitive individuals, who love and hurt like we all do. Supposedly the original script wasn't that way but the director intervened.

 

[The39thStep]

Yeah I agree. I know that isn't what they actually think, (with the exception of Casually Red) but reading some posts here you'd think that Clinton was as bad as Trump, or worse. Sure, Clinton is bad, just like the Weimar Republic was bad, but there really is a much bigger problem right now.

The Weimar Republic was bad compared to what?

 

[krtek a houby]

I think we can safely consign the independent to the same dustbin we've put the canary and occupy democrats

The hive mind has spoken!

 

[killer b]

The hive mind has spoken!

The fuck are you on about?

 

[redsquirrel]

I think we can safely consign the independent to the same dustbin we've put the canary and occupy democrats

It really is crap. Not just general crap in BBC/Guardian way but just fucking clickbait rubbish.

 

[camouflage]

the World of Warcraft film finally broke the orkist barrier and shows orcs as warriors, yes, but also as sensitive individuals, who love and hurt like we all do. Supposedly the original script wasn't that way but the director intervened.

The issue with all these kind of products is the concept that you have good "races" and evil "races" and warlike "races" and money-grubbing "races". It's all very dodge really, these race-based notions. The races in question not actually existing or being human in the first place becomes (in my view) less significant than the concept and the language of the concept itself. It's like they build up the chasis that later on can be loaded with whatever for real-world application.

From Lord of the Rings to Star Trek, watching any of these things becomes to an extent a disturbing insight inside of the mind of yer Stephan Bannons of the world, and the gleaming white cities they feel they are defending. In many cases we even see out and out wars of annihilation perpetrated by one race against another... the orcs and goblins in LotR for example can be wiped-out entirely by the tall beautiful elf people and their North European human and dour dwarf allies. The money-grubbing Ferenghi, the Logical Vulcans, the war-like Klingons (that somehow took enough of a break from obsessing about conflict all the time to gaze up at the stars and wonder and build star-ships so they could be a military threat to everyone)... if that sort of thinking is good enough for Middle Earth or the Federation, why not Regular Earth?

I'm being half playful and half serious really, but I'm convinced this sort of thing is part of the cultural mythology that manifests in other more serious ways than entertaining tales about stuff that never happened on a map of a place that never existed. Anyway, just a bit of harmless banter I'm sure.

 

[krtek a houby]

The fuck are you on about?

Perhaps you could furnish us with acceptable news organs to link to, in case of further upset. I wasn't about when The Independent was deemed dodgy. Thanks

 

[19force8]

Indeed we must. I didn't think Clinton was evil, but if I did, I still would have voted for her. That's life. We can't have everything.

Noam Chomsky on the biggest mistake the left made in this election

Sod the lesser evil.

 

[killer b]

Perhaps you could furnish us with acceptable news organs to link to, in case of further upset. I wasn't about when The Independent was deemed dodgy. Thanks

I just gave you the heads-up then. You're welcome.

You should have been able to identify it yourself tbf - that the content of the article doesn't support the breathless headline should be a bit of a warning.

 

[krtek a houby]

I just gave you the heads-up then. You're welcome.

You should have been able to identify it yourself tbf - that the content of the article doesn't support the breathless headline should be a bit of a warning.

Yes, there is a disconnect between the headline and the actual article, fair point.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

I'm way too inept a thinker to speculate on whether the coup stuff is a fantasy but it was this part I had to agree with:

I’ve said this before and will say it again. Be scientific. demand specific, credible and verifiable evidence and primary sourcing. Be skeptical and cautious about drawing conclusions. Don’t speculate endlessly on motives and psychology, especially when they are unknowable. Power operates in a far more banal fashion than a fantastical one. This is a long game. Keep your wits about you and we will get through this together.

Don’t Give In To Coup Fantasies; Power is More Straightforward

 

[camouflage]

Sod the lesser evil.

In his house at R'lyeh, dead Cthulhu waits dreaming, roll on 2020.

 

[ska invita]

The issue with all these kind of products is the concept that you have good "races" and evil "races" and warlike "races" and money-grubbing "races". It's all very dodge really, these race-based notions. The races in question not actually existing or being human in the first place becomes (in my view) less significant than the concept and the language of the concept itself. It's like they build up the chasis that later on can be loaded with whatever for real-world application.

From Lord of the Rings to Star Trek, watching any of these things becomes to an extent a disturbing insight inside of the mind of yer Stephan Bannons of the world, and the gleaming white cities they feel they are defending. In many cases we even see out and out wars of annihilation perpetrated by one race against another... the orcs and goblins in LotR for example can be wiped-out entirely by the tall beautiful elf people and their North European human and dour dwarf allies. The money-grubbing Ferenghi, the Logical Vulcans, the war-like Klingons (that somehow took enough of a break from obsessing about conflict to gaze up at the stars and wonder and build star-ships so they could be a military threat to everyone_... if that sort of thinking is good enough for Middle Earth or the Federation, why not Regular Earth?

I'm being half playful and half serious really, but I'm convinced this sort of thing is part of the cultural mythology that manifests in other more serious ways than entertaining tales about stuff that never happened on a map of a place that never existed.

aye, and The Shire at the centre of the safe universe is the ultimate little England fantasy

the orcs of tolkein, to be fair, are creatures magicked out of the mud, created to kill. Fair game really.
In WoW not only are they three dimensional characters, but they are oppressed by a dictator orc!

 

[killer b]

I'm way too inept a thinker to speculate on whether the coup stuff is a fantasy but it was this part I had to agree with:



Don’t Give In To Coup Fantasies; Power is More Straightforward

Seymour posted an article today on a similar theme

LENIN'S TOMB: Against omniscience

 

[19force8]

The issue with all these kind of products is the concept that you have good "races" and evil "races" and warlike "races" and money-grubbing "races". It's all very dodge really, these race-based notions.

When my kids went through the Games Workshop phase I was actually pleasantly surprised with the 40K world and how the human empire was portrayed in a very negative way. There seemed to be no "good" races with some aliens being less disgusting than humans. That said I agree it was dodgy, but to my mind not as unpleasant as Call of Duty, etc, etc.

 

[Rimbaud]

I just gave you the heads-up then. You're welcome.

You should have been able to identify it yourself tbf - that the content of the article doesn't support the breathless headline should be a bit of a warning.

Reported on BBC too, and pretty much every major media outlet.

It is a pretty big deal actually. Trump seems to want the EU to break apart. The EU obviously is not happy about this. So the traditional alliance between the USA and the EU may be no more. It's certainly worthy of discussion.