The Trump presidency

[J Ed]

Likely there's no cure for it: it seems that playing 'what if', wrt the 2016 election, is becoming as popular as playing 'what if' regarding WW2 is, for some people.

'What if Hitler actually tried to invade Britain?'

'What if Manstein had commanded on the Western Front?

'What if Hitler had forgot about Moscow, and concentrated on the Caucasus?'

It's all good for endless hours of diversion, for some.

Actually the Clinton campaign's mistakes are more like 'what if she remembered to tie her own shoelaces?'

 

[8den]

I also would like proof about how 'Russian hackers' 'influenced' the election. I'm not ruling it out entirely, but how exactly is it supposed to have happened? Especially since thanks to 8den we now know that there was nothing in the emails, that there is no proof of Russian involvement on anyway, of any significance.

Literally, a few posts ago mao mao claimed Chelsea Clinton's wedding was paid for by the Clinton foundation as evidence Clinton was venal and corrupt, but there's no evidence of this, it all stems from offhand comment in a hacked e-mail

And yet you're still asking for proof that Russian Hackers influenced the election?

Son you are a special kind of stupid.

 

[Yossarian]

How Trump won the presidency with razor-thin margins in swing states

But to win with those 107,000 votes, he also had to win in Ohio, Florida, Iowa, Indiana, etc - Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin hadn't been considered swing states for about 20 years before this election.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Mistakes? She ran one of the worst campaigns imaginable in her advantageous position.

But I've also read within the past couple of pages that Clinton was a 'venal representative of the Establishment'. Even without the invective, it's widely accepted that she was not a popular candidate, by a long shot.

So it was a highly unpopular candidate, against a loudmouthed charlatan.

Not sure where her advantage lay.

 

[maomao]

Literally, a few posts ago mao mao claimed Chelsea Clinton's wedding was paid for by the Clinton foundation as evidence Clinton was venal and corrupt, but there's no evidence of this, it all stems from offhand comment in a hacked e-mail

And yet you're still asking for evidence that Russian Hackers influenced the election?

Son you are a special kind of stupid.

Could you stop altering my ID please. It has no spaces or hyphens. Also it's considered polite around here to tag people when you're talking about them.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

But to win with those 107,000 votes, he also had to win in Ohio, Florida, Iowa, Indiana, etc - Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin hadn't been considered swing states for about 20 years before this election.

Read the whole article. He got Republican votes in the states that were expected to go Republican.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

it's considered polite around here to tag people when you're talking about them.

It's also impolite to refer to a poster as a 'loony' - aside from the distasteful element of using a word associated with the mentally ill, as an epithet.

 

[J Ed]

But I've also read within the past couple of pages that Clinton was a 'venal representative of the Establishment'. Even without the invective, it's widely accepted that she was not a popular candidate, by a long shot.

So it was a highly unpopular candidate, against a loudmouthed charlatan.

Not sure where her advantage lay.

Double the money, the support of almost all of the media, running against a candidate who openly admitted sexual assault and was accused of sexual assault on many more occasions... those seem like pretty clear advantages to me.

 

[maomao]

It's also impolite to refer to a poster as a 'loony' - aside from the distasteful element of using a word associated with the mentally ill, as an epithet.

Yes, but he is a fucking loony.

 

[agricola]

Read the whole article. He got Republican votes in the states that were expected to go Republican.

.... and won states that were expected to go Democrat (though admittedly not by much).

 

[8den]

If they had actual proof such as unauthorised access to servers etc I suspect they would have been shouting it from the rooftops. As it is we are supposed to take various officials word for it. Consequently I remain sceptical.

Well thats never going to happen. For starts as we both know, one of the first thing a hacker does is hide his I/P address.

We do have lots of other evidence. Roger Stone, a Trump confident, literally predicted Podesta's e-mails would be hacked by Gufficer, before the DNC. And we now know Gufficer is a GRU alias. Journalists have literally gone to Russia and spoken to Russian hackers and fake news infulencers who have stated they were paid to infulence the election. We have Erik Prince, (ollie north 2.0) meeting with Russian intelligence. Carter Page, brought onto the Trump campaign is most likely a Russian asset.

And finally lest we forget there is, about 4 open investigations in the Russian hacking and infulence into this election, and lets see what they turn up,

 

[8den]

Could you stop altering my ID please. It has no spaces or hyphens. Also it's considered polite around here to tag people when you're talking about them.

Oh my fucking god. I didn't call you Monkeymao or some shit, my spell checker auto corrected your name from "maomao" to "mao mao".

Get off the fucking cross and let jesus have a go.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Double the money, the support of almost all of the media, running against a candidate who openly admitted sexual assault and was accused of sexual assault on many more occasions... those seem like pretty clear advantages to me.

.... unless a large number of people within a country only listen to Fox News, and think that talk of sexual assault is just 'boy talk', or else is evidence that the candidate is anti-PC - a good thing in their eyes.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Yes, but he is a fucking loony.

Namecalling, bullying and harassment in the guise of argument, shouldn't be allowed.

 

[8den]

Double the money, the support of almost all of the media, running against a candidate who openly admitted sexual assault and was accused of sexual assault on many more occasions... those seem like pretty clear advantages to me.

And yet lots of voters didn't seem to care.

You really think Sanders would have done better against Trump when the sexual assault allegations came out,

Christ I knew it was a mistake to take you off ignore,

 

[J Ed]

And yet lots of voters didn't seem to care.

You really think Sanders would have done better against Trump when the sexual assault allegations came out,

Christ I knew it was a mistake to take you off ignore,

Plenty of voters did care, yet she was such a weak candidate that clearly plenty of people thought it wasn't enough. Again, blame always travels down for liberals.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

blame always travels down for liberals.

?

lib·er·al
ˈlib(ə)rəl/
adjective
adjective: liberal

1. 1.
   open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional values.
   "they have more liberal views toward marriage and divorce than some people"
   • favorable to or respectful of individual rights and freedoms.
     "liberal citizenship laws"
     synonyms: tolerant, unprejudiced, unbigoted, broad-minded, open-minded, enlightened; More
     permissive, free, free and easy, easygoing, libertarian, indulgent, lenient
     "the values of a liberal society"
     antonyms: narrow-minded, bigoted
   • (in a political context) favoring maximum individual liberty in political and social reform.
     "a liberal democratic state"
     synonyms: progressive, advanced, modern, forward-looking, forward-thinking, progressivist, enlightened, reformist, radical
     "a liberal social agenda"
     antonyms: reactionary, conservative
   • of or characteristic of Liberals or a Liberal Party.
     adjective: Liberal
   • (in the UK) relating to the Liberal Democrat Party.
     adjective: Liberal
     "the Liberal leader"
   • Theology
     regarding many traditional beliefs as dispensable, invalidated by modern thought, or liable to change.
2. 2.
   (of education) concerned mainly with broadening a person's general knowledge and experience, rather than with technical or professional training.
   synonyms: wide-ranging, broad-based, general
   "a liberal education"
3. 3.
   (especially of an interpretation of a law) broadly construed or understood; not strictly literal or exact.
   "they could have given the 1968 Act a more liberal interpretation"
   synonyms: flexible, broad, loose, rough, free, general, nonliteral, nonspecific, imprecise, vague, indefinite
   "a liberal interpretation of divorce laws"
   antonyms: strict, to the letter

 

[J Ed]

The smug style in American liberalism

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

You and others seemed able to intuit that Trump would be a bad choice for President, and you did it with the information available.

You argue that it's wrong to call Trump voters 'dumb', or ill-informed.

You argue that Clinton should have 'done more'.

But if you and others here were able to determine that Trump was a bad choice, without Clinton 'doing more'; then what is the explanation for Trump voters not also figuring it out, on the basis of the same information that was available to you?

 

[maomao]

You and others seemed able to intuit that Trump would be a bad choice for President, and you did it with the information available.

You argue that it's wrong to call Trump voters 'dumb', or ill-informed.

You argue that Clinton should have 'done more'.

But if you and others here were able to determine that Trump was a bad choice, without Clinton 'doing more'; then what is the explanation for Trump voters not also figuring it out, on the basis of the same information that was available to you?

The argument was actually that Trump made offers and promises (that he obviously has broken or will break) to sections of the population that Clinton took for granted, assumed would vote for her, made no effort to attract and was actually seen to insult. People voted in their own perceived interests as they usually do.

 

[J Ed]

The argument was actually that Trump made offers and promises (that he obviously has broken or will break) to sections of the population that Clinton took for granted, assumed would vote for her, made no effort to attract and was actually seen to insult. People voted in their own perceived interests as they usually do.

Yes, in 2008 and 2012 Obama went to lots of union meetings and veteran meetings in swing states and largely sold people a pack of lies but at least he bothered to do it. The Clinton campaign by contrast spent the time that it could have spent doing that in Martha's Vineyard with billionaires.

 

[8den]

I'm still tickled by maomao claiming the Clinton foundation paid for Chelsea's wedding based on a off hand comment in a hacked email. JEd claiming that the refutation of a paper thin allegation wasn't detailed enough. and then getting asked for "proof" Russian hacking affected the election results, all with a few posts of another.

The lack of self awareness is just staggering.

And maomao who'll swallow any old shit if he thinks it hurts Clinton has the temerity to call other posters conspiracy theorists

 

[J Ed]

I'm still tickled by maomao claiming the Clinton foundation paid for Chelsea's wedding based on a off hand comment in a hacked email. JEd claiming that the refutation of a paper thin allegation wasn't detailed enough. and then getting asked for "proof" Russian hacking affected the election results, all with a few posts of another.

The lack of self awareness is just staggering.

And maomao who'll swallow any old shit if he thinks it hurts Clinton has the temerity to call other posters conspiracy theorists

Well the Washington Post found no evidence that the allegation wasn't true, just as there is no definitive evidence of a Russian role in 'hacking' the election whatever that means today.

 

[bimble]

Reading the last few pages here = the shittest time travel experience ever.

 

[Idris2002]

Reading the last few pages here = the shittest time travel experience ever.

So, you're finally getting into the Urban spirit. Here have this hobnob, and this refreshing glass of kool-aid.

 

[Pickman's model]

So, you're finally getting into the Urban spirit. Here have this hobnob, and this refreshing glass of kool-aid.

stop! stop! that's from the jonestown batch

 

[maomao]

I'm still tickled by maomao claiming the Clinton foundation paid for Chelsea's wedding based on a off hand comment in a hacked email.

Where did I do that? I said that the revelation, the veracity of which I did not pass comment on, surprised no-one as it was entirely in keeping with her corrupt, venal reputation. I stand by that.

 

[maomao]

Reading the last few pages here = the shittest time travel experience ever.

It's making a very boring day at work go a little quicker.

 

[Idris2002]

stop! stop! that's from the jonestown batch

Oops! bimble, go round to Pikcman's place instead, I hear he's got some nice Amontillado in.

 

[Idris2002]

Where did I do that? I said that the revelation, the veracity of which I did not pass comment on, surprised no-one as it was entirely in keeping with her corrupt, venal reputation. I stand by that.

It would certainly be in keeping with Chelsea C.'s history of very nicely paid sinecures:

Against Chelsea Clinton | Jacobin

You could argue that her Mum did have an uphill struggle as a woman lawyer of her generation - but her daughter the gilded youth?