the sir jimmy savile obe thread

[ViolentPanda]

Why the Masons and not the Satanists?

The usual problem is that you join the Satanists, and then you find out that instead of virgin-sacrificing, goat-rimming ne'er-do-wells, you've joined LaVey's Church of Satan, which is pretty much Wicca with wife-swapping, plus some Demonic imagery.
After such a disappointment, of course you'd go for the established option, and swear vociferously that you'd never been a Satanist!

 

[ViolentPanda]

there will of course be a number of satanist masons

The Initiates of Thanateros used to be (and possibly still is) riddled with Freemasons. The buggers are everywhere!

 

[exiledinwales]

But Jimmy was working class. He naturally rose to the highest stratum in his career path and rubbed shoulders with the other fuckers there as is expected of a psychopath.

lol. No, he wasn't "working class". He may have been a worker at some early stage but he soon became something else. Self employed, small capitalist, property and land owner etc Workers are people who only have the ability to sell their labour power which is why millionaire footballers are equally not "working class". Of course, there is such a thing as the working class but it is international not a bunch of individuals who have certain accents or mannerisms.

 

[existentialist]

lol. No, he wasn't "working class". He may have been a worker at some early stage but he soon became something else. Self employed, small capitalist, property and land owner etc Workers are people who only have the ability to sell their labour power which is why millionaire footballers are equally not "working class". Of course, there is such a thing as the working class but it is international not a bunch of individuals who have certain accents or mannerisms.

I always think it's amusing, when we get these classist tubthumpers on here, how very, very good they are at determining what class someone is. It's clearly a complex and nuanced business which, nonetheless, seems to end up creating class stratifications that perfectly suit whatever agenda and prejudices they're trying to peddle.

TBH, if a "class system" were really as variable and complex as they try to paint it, it'd collapse under its own weight.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I always think it's amusing, when we get these classist tubthumpers on here, how very, very good they are at determining what class someone is. It's clearly a complex and nuanced business which, nonetheless, seems to end up creating class stratifications that perfectly suit whatever agenda and prejudices they're trying to peddle.

TBH, if a "class system" were really as variable and complex as they try to paint it, it'd collapse under its own weight.

There's a reason why there's confusion about class.
It's because people tend to conflate employment type and remuneration, social position, "heritage" and lifestyle as all somehow being/meaning the same thing. They don't. So, your jobbing builder, who sells his artisanal labour and makes a decent whack from doing so, may class himself as "middle class" because of his income, but is working class in that he has only his labour power to sell, though according to some, he's bourgeois on the basis of being "self-employed".
In other words, it is variable, and it is complex, not least because people are often at cross purposes when they discourse on the subject!

Savile was born into a working class family, and engaged in a traditional working class trade, but he was also an "entrepreneur" in the entertainment industry at a time when the industry was rather staid and formulaic, which allowed him to exercise the sort of control over his destiny that most workers never achieve. He's a good example of how one can transit from one class to another in the course of a life.

As for the volume of class stratifications, Max Weber codified ideas about stratification almost a hundred years ago, at which (much simpler) time, he concluded that stratification was theoretically infinite, but practically could be viewed as divergences or sub-layers of a handful of main strata that corresponded to Marx's three main layers - the proletariat, the bourgeoisie and the owners of the means of production/capitalists - plus a couple of others above and below.
So you don't need to create strata to suit your argument, they already exist if you know what to look for.

 

[butchersapron]

Talking of OB, Savile and cover-ups:

But what is only starting to emerge from this horror story is the extent to which the police appeared to have enabled Savile to claim he was untouchable. This week, a retired Leeds policeman has claimed that “there wasn’t a copper in the city who didn’t know Savile was a pervert”.
The ex-Leeds City Police officer, speaking under the alias Paul Leonard, said that in 1965 he had come across Savile’s Rolls-Royce parked in a secluded lay-by near Roundhay Golf Club. The then DJ and fledgling television presenter reportedly warned: “I’m waiting for midnight when she turns 16… so p--s off if you want to keep your job.” After reporting the incident to a sergeant, Leonard says he was told: “Shut up, son. He’s got friends in high places.”

...

The Independent Police Complaints Commission (IPCC) has now launched an investigation into a recently retired West Yorkshire Police inspector, revealed for the first time yesterday as Mick Starkey. The 61‑year-old is alleged to have contacted Surrey Police before the interview in 2009 and “acted on behalf” of Savile. Starkey had previously been known as a regular at the Friday morning club, which was frequented by serving and retired West Yorkshire police officers, and he would regularly chauffeur the celebrity around in his Rolls-Royce.

...

As Savile’s fame grew, so did his influence over the police. One retired Leeds inspector, who served as a young police constable in the Chapel Town division, which covered Roundhay in the mid-Eighties, recalls regular trips by officers – including Mick Starkey – to visit Savile at his flat.
“It was just as if it was an accepted something that happened. I didn’t really ask questions about it,” says the former inspector, who declined to be named. “One morning they set off in a police car, there were about three or four of them. It was as if they were all going there for some reason. They were all on duty and all in uniform. I knew he had a relationship with the police, and that is not unusual as a high-profile person. But whether Savile would see that in terms of protecting himself, I don’t really know.”

...

It is known that Savile made a number of financial contributions to charities linked to West Yorkshire Police. At one point the force invited him to be the voice of a new anti-burglary campaign.

and

The incident is mentioned in an internal report compiled by West Yorkshire Police into Savile’s relationship with the force, which is currently being assessed by the IPCC. The findings of the watchdog, which is also investigating police conduct in matters relating to Savile in nine other forces, are expected to be published within weeks.

The West Yorkshire report – dubbed Operation Newgreen – reveals that complaints about Savile’s behaviour were mishandled a number of times, including in 1998, when its officers failed to properly record an anonymous letter forwarded by a Metropolitan Police officer from its clubs and vice unit. The letter stated that it was “common knowledge within the team in the late Eighties and early Nineties that Savile was a paedophile”.

Following the report’s publication in May, Jon Christopher, who last week stepped down as chairman of the West Yorkshire Police Federation due to ill-health, said he feared it could be seen by the public as a whitewash because of poor police records kept regarding the entertainer. “At the time Jimmy Savile was a very large character in Leeds and certainly some officers may well have been duped.”

This is all generally stuff already out there, but nice to have it all in one place

 

[Citizen66]

lol. No, he wasn't "working class". He may have been a worker at some early stage but he soon became something else. Self employed, small capitalist, property and land owner etc Workers are people who only have the ability to sell their labour power which is why millionaire footballers are equally not "working class". Of course, there is such a thing as the working class but it is international not a bunch of individuals who have certain accents or mannerisms.

What were his business interests that he extracted profit from?

Afaik his wealth was accrued through selling his labour which amounted to more than most due to what 'the markets' deemed his skills were worth.

 

[brogdale]

Talking of OB, Savile and cover-ups:



and



This is all generally stuff already out there, but nice to have it all in one place

Likewise :-

http://www.upsd.co.uk/operation-newgreen-savile-report/

Can't personally vouch for uPSD, but it appears solid.

 

[butchersapron]

uPSD are fantastic.

 

[brogdale]

uPSD are fantastic.

Good to hear.

I was particularly drawn to this section, following the discussion in this thread yesterday:-

12. Another glaring omission from Operation Newgreen is the word Freemason. Savile was allegedly a Freemason. According to a BBC photograph which we have seen, a significant number who attended his funeral did so in what appears to be full Lodge regalia (it has also been suggested that this may be Catholic Church regalia) and had prominent roles in the proceedings. We also have viewed photographs of Savile delivering the famous Masonic ”funny handshake” to both Frank Bruno and HRH Prince Charles. How many of the Newgreen investigating officers are Freemasons and how many of the officers attending the Friday Morning Club are/were Freemasons. Simple enough stuff and it is what the victims and the wider public really need to understand about the police protection Savile received in his lifetime – and is that now still in operation after his death?

 

[Delroy Booth]

Has this been shown on here before? Absolutely amazing this, the final letter.

 

[1%er]

Good to hear.

I was particularly drawn to this section, following the discussion in this thread yesterday:-

Why would he have given a masonic handshake to Frank Bruno or Prince Charles?

They are not masons and he wasn't

 

[Smyz]

Has this been shown on here before? Absolutely amazing this, the final letter.

That letter sounds like a veiled accusation.

 

[Pickman's model]

The usual problem is that you join the Satanists, and then you find out that instead of virgin-sacrificing, goat-rimming ne'er-do-wells, you've joined LaVey's Church of Satan, which is pretty much Wicca with wife-swapping, plus some Demonic imagery.
After such a disappointment, of course you'd go for the established option, and swear vociferously that you'd never been a Satanist!

i was always more interested in the process than in the church of satan

 

[D'wards]

Two more arrested under Yewtree today - lots of Twitter speculation you won't hear me repeat here - take note Davies and Bercow

 

[brogdale]

Why would he have given a masonic handshake to Frank Bruno or Prince Charles?

They are not masons and he wasn't

One minute it's said that it's not possible to know who is a member, and the next you offer definitive statement about who isn't/wasn't. Confusing, but probs best left to the Masonic thread(s).

 

[1%er]

One minute it's said that it's not possible to know who is a member, and the next you offer definitive statement about who isn't/wasn't. Confusing, but probs best left to the Masonic thread(s).

They are not "the man in the street", Bruno and Saville would have been members of Chelsea lodge or know to members and it isn't hard to find out which of the royals are members, they don't and couldn't keep it secret in this day and age.

I don't know who told you "it's not possible to know who is a member", there are a numbers of ways of finding that out.

 

[Citizen66]

Broadmoor Lodge lol.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

The usual problem is that you join the Satanists, and then you find out that instead of virgin-sacrificing, goat-rimming ne'er-do-wells, you've joined LaVey's Church of Satan, which is pretty much Wicca with wife-swapping, plus some Demonic imagery.
After such a disappointment, of course you'd go for the established option, and swear vociferously that you'd never been a Satanist!

I remember seeing a US documentary that explained very well a confusion in the US around satanism and paganism.

Basically, it's the Christian fundies to blame, back in the day they wanted to discredit paganism so kept on laying on that it's rituals, belief etc were "satanist" with a trowel.

Now kids get into paganism, possibly not even that - just some basically hippie interests, and assume too easily that it's satanism so get into that too. The fundies backfired. Surprise.

 

[Ranbay]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2480838/BBC-star-arrested-Savile-sex-abuse-probe.html

(ed: stop this)

 

[elbows]

There are some very strong clues in this article, if it is accurate:

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/lat...robe-into-Jimmy-Savile-arrested-for-sex-crime

The suspect has enjoyed a stellar broadcasting career and is famed for his encyclopaedic knowledge of showbiz.

He was one of the most prominent personalities to criticise missed chances to expose Savile’s antics prior to his death two years ago at the age of 84.

 

[Ranbay]

I heard it was sex abuse on pensioners, he always did like a (ed: no)

IGMC

 

[Smyz]

Edmonds does not have a current radio show.

Encyclopaedic knowledge of showbiz narrows it down a lot.

If it is who I think it is I am shocked and very sad.

 

[Pickman's model]

Edmonds does not have a current radio show.

Encyclopaedic knowledge of showbiz narrows it down a lot.

If it is who I think it is I am shocked and very sad.

more than when rolf harris's name was thrown in the ring?

 

[Smyz]

Yes.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes.

oh that is bad

 

[Pickman's model]

Edmonds does not have a current radio show.

Encyclopaedic knowledge of showbiz narrows it down a lot.

If it is who I think it is I am shocked and very sad.

the stella reference gives it away imo. as cthulhu said, the stars are right for disgrace.

 

[clicker]

I've never guessed one of these right so far - shite at cryptic crosswords too

 

[Smyz]

Twitter has it.

The anti libel warnings are saying to remember that Jim Davidson had no case to answer. Lot different from the warnings when Noel Edmonds was being named.

There isn't anyone else who fits every clue.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

This is the police who are doing this, too. Moronic fuck-ups ahoy.