The most working-class anarchist group is...

[General Ludd]

Does that mean you admit you were talking bullshit with your comments about the miner's strike? And as for some anarchists being cocks, of course they are, the same is true of any group of people you could possibly name.

There are some posters on here who promote forms of anarchist activity that I do think is pro working class and community based but they are often surrounded in a sea of others advocating shoplifting,riots, free and autonomous spaces for parties, building tree houses and juggling.

Ignoring building tree houses and juggling, why do you think that advocating the things you list means that people don't also promote the stuff you do like? I have no problem with shop lifting, I definetly have no problem with people rioting and whilst it's not something I'd ever spend time on I'm not particularly offended by free parties but I still manage to promote and be involved in the kinds of local activity you praise.

Whilst I have been involved in the usual arguements at work or in pubs or in the community about whether socialism goes against human nature, or whether socialism would work or about whether Russia was socialist etc I can honestly say I have never participated in the same re anarchism.

Maybe that's because you're not an anarchist, alot of the time when I end up in a political argument with non-anarchists it ends up being an 'is anarchism possible' argument.

 

[General Ludd]

Charlie you have probably been as embarassed as anyone else with some of contributions on these boards from so called anarchists, they are as cringe worthy as some of the simplistic sloganising that we get from some Trots.

Not really. I'd say that almost all the anarchists who post regularly here have pretty decent politics.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not really. I'd say that almost all the anarchists who post regularly here have pretty decent politics.

almost all?

name names!

 

[LLETSA]

Is LLETSA on still talking junk?

The amusing thing about you is that you think you've won the arguments.

 

[charlie mowbray]

LLETSA, you might well be a nice bloke in the real world, but you come across as a supercilious prat on this board

 

[Divisive Cotton]

LLETSA, you might well be a nice bloke in the real world, but you come across as a supercilious prat on this board

Fucking hell

 

[Herbert Read]

The amusing thing about you is that you think you've won the arguments.

I dont think i have won i think that i am justified in my work within the community in my area to promote publiscise and nurture anarchism.

That may mean nothing to you but it means a lot to me. I would extend the same invitation to you that i did Chuck but

 

[LLETSA]

I dont think i have won i think that i am justified in my work within the community in my area to promote publiscise and nurture anarchism.

Which I never questioned. What I did was ask why anarchism is invisible to the working class and to the public in general. Which would suggest that the 'promoting and publicising methods' of people like yourself are somewhat lacking. Would it not?

 

[LLETSA]

You can't please 'em all.

LLETSA, you might well be a nice bloke in the real world, but you come across as a supercilious prat on this board

Maybe I'll consider messageboard counselling. Or summat.

 

[General Ludd]

Which I never questioned. What I did was ask why anarchism is invisible to the working class and to the public in general. Which would suggest that the 'promoting and publicising methods' of people like yourself are somewhat lacking. Would it not?

It may suggest our methods are ineffective (which to an extent I'd agree with, although I think the tiny number of anarchists in the UK is a far larger factor - however efficient you are if there's one of you in a community of 40,000 you're unlikely to convert them all to anarchism quickly whatever methods you use), you though were suggesting that anarchism is unheard of because that is what anarchists want, and given that as far as I know all the people you're arguing against spend a lot of time and effort promoting anarchism it isn't surprising that you pissed people off.

 

[charlie mowbray]

Exactly!

 

[Herbert Read]

Which I never questioned. What I did was ask why anarchism is invisible to the working class and to the public in general. Which would suggest that the 'promoting and publicising methods' of people like yourself are somewhat lacking. Would it not?

If you want to think im lacking then fine i cant speak for every anarchist in britain. Socialism may appear on the radar of the WC but is this always positive and do WC people think its a real alternative for them?

I am an excellent practitioner of cognitive behavioural therapy and would like to extend to you the offer of 6 free sessions in which we could work on your negative automatic thought process and challenge some of the underlying schema that affects your day to day life.

Its up to you PM me if your interested

You never got round to mentionong if you did anything in your area or just rest on the laurels of other socailists?

 

[LLETSA]

If you want to think im lacking then fine i cant speak for every anarchist in britain. Socialism may appear on the radar of the WC but is this always positive and do WC people think its a real alternative for them?

I am an excellent practitioner of cognitive behavioural therapy and would like to extend to you the offer of 6 free sessions in which we could work on your negative automatic thought process and challenge some of the underlying schema that affects your day to day life.

Its up to you PM me if your interested

You never got round to mentionong if you did anything in your area or just rest on the laurels of other socailists?

For the nth time- read my original post. There you will find that I did not hold up any alternative to anarchism but made a simple comment about its failure to register with the general public. I also made it clear that I was not having a go personally at any anarchists. Judging by the irrational responses of some of the anarchos I would say that there are others in greater need of your six free sessions. But thanks all the same.

And this is, I may remind you (without being at all supercilious), a politics board. Have you nothing with political content to say?

 

[LLETSA]

I am an excellent practitioner of cognitive behavioural therapy and would like to extend to you the offer of 6 free sessions in which we could work on your negative automatic thought process and challenge some of the underlying schema that affects your day to day life.

And far from 'underlying schema affecting my day to day life,' I'm more concerned about the underlying schemers. But that's another story.

 

[Epicurus]

@ charlie Mowbray
I bet our paths crossed at wapping, I was just last night looking at pictures taken at wapping that a friend is planning to put up on his site.

We are going to scan them at sometime so I’ll send you them as you may be in one or two (there are loads).

They were taken on 3 different nights all nights of interest, the first lot are from the night the paper rolls were cut off the lorry and rolled down the hill towards the police lines also the night the lorry was turned over right opposite the side road the police kept close off leading to the gates and the last lot were the night the police corralled all of us into that little square of grass behind the railing where the tea van used to be parked.

Anyway the point is if you or anyone else was there on those night I’ll send you the address of the site the pictures will be on once they have been scanned in. (don’t hold your breath as it will take some time)

 

[Herbert Read]

So talking about what i am dong and politics that are going on around me is not relevant. Or do i have quote history for politics to be relevant?

In the future ill quote lenin and trotsky and kropotkin to you rather than have a debate about what is relevant to me now.

 

[Herbert Read]

And far from 'underlying schema affecting my day to day life,' I'm more concerned about the underlying schemers. But that's another story.

 

[LLETSA]

It may suggest our methods are ineffective (which to an extent I'd agree with, although I think the tiny number of anarchists in the UK is a far larger factor - however efficient you are if there's one of you in a community of 40,000 you're unlikely to convert them all to anarchism quickly whatever methods you use), you though were suggesting that anarchism is unheard of because that is what anarchists want, and given that as far as I know all the people you're arguing against spend a lot of time and effort promoting anarchism it isn't surprising that you pissed people off.

The comments regarding it being what anarchists seem to want was in response to some of those on here who refuse to explain or justify their politics even when asked to do so. As well as, of course, the inevitable consequences of the anarchist aversion to anything that smacks of showing leadership.

What is most striking is the lack of politics in the responses from most anarchists.

Among whom do anarchists 'promote anarchism,' by the way. I know that people have said that they're involved in community work and that is good. But what does 'promoting anarchism' mean exactly?

 

[LLETSA]

So talking about what i am dong and politics that are going on around me is not relevant. Or do i have quote history for politics to be relevant?

In the future ill quote lenin and trotsky and kropotkin to you rather than have a debate about what is relevant to me now.

Oh never mind then. You obviously don't know what I mean.

 

[montevideo]

The comments regarding it being what anarchists seem to want was in response to some of those on here who refuse to explain or justify their politics even when asked to do so. As well as, of course, the inevitable consequences of the anarchist aversion to anything that smacks of showing leadership.

What is most striking is the lack of politics in the responses from most anarchists.

Among whom do anarchists 'promote anarchism,' by the way. I know that people have said that they're involved in community work and that is good. But what does 'promoting anarchism' mean exactly?

personally speaking 1) methods of working together 2) fighting coppers, innit

 

[Herbert Read]

LLETSA stop being a tool

Do you want me to quote texts at you or some thing. Promoting anarchism to me in the community/neighbourhood/city is not about having a meeting and ramming kropotkin and Goldman down people throats. Its about working in partnership with people to create empowerment, so that they can do things for themselves without being subject to any outside authority. By allowing people the space to create groups develop ideas (i) seek to inject political argument to attack the status quo. This hopefully will allow people to create a DIY ethos in which they can challange authority/political staus quo within their work place, housing association, and general life. I would not promote electioneering or standing for positions for this but use its as an oppurtunity to attack institutions and create self independence. This would be done to raise political consciousness and create small but important revoloutionary ideas.

How do you define politics?

 

[Herbert Read]

personally speaking 1) methods of working together 2) fighting coppers, innit

 

[LLETSA]

personally speaking 1) methods of working together 2) fighting coppers, innit

Don't understand that reply.

However - fighting coppers! Cor that's radical - be careful not to stop too quickly when you're walking along the street - you might get crushed by that mass of working class people marching along behind you ready to be led to where the action is.

 

[General Ludd]

Not just a patronising anti-leninst but a patronising anti-leninist without a sense of humour.

 

[ernestolynch]

personally speaking 1) methods of working together 2) fighting coppers, innit

 

[montevideo]

Don't understand that reply.

However - fighting coppers! Cor that's radical - be careful not to stop too quickly when you're walking along the street - you might get crushed by that mass of working class people marching along behind you ready to be led to where the action is.

working class anarchist humour - an acquired taste.

 

[ernestolynch]

Not just a patronising anti-leninst but a patronising anti-leninist without a sense of humour.

I thought monty was serious!

 

[Divisive Cotton]

I thought monty was serious!

So did I

 

[LLETSA]

Not just a patronising anti-leninst but a patronising anti-leninist without a sense of humour.

Maybe when I'm about to log off I miss the point of a one-line answer that doesn't even make it clear which post it's replying to.

But no sense of humour? That's a bit rich coming from some of you lot (read back through the thread matie.)

 

[ernestolynch]

So did I

A case of 'Your reputation precedes you, Lord Montague...'?