The Green Party has some serious questions to answer

[SpineyNorman]

Would you share why you think that?

No

 

[Treacle Toes]

No

Right.

 

[spanglechick]

Like this isn't the precise opposite of what posters who have swallowed the tg agenda are doing. Defend, minimise, ignore, disparage, smear anyone who says, 'hang on'. I've had a "pro-trans" poster implying that I'm a paedophile.

If you see a minority group being criticised because of the actions of someone not even in that minority group, it's pretty important to step in and intervene, in my book.

 

[trashpony]

There is no political party in the land that would countenance lowering the age of consent to include children having sex with adults. It's not part of trans activism, even at the more extreme end. You seem to be linking paedophilia with the trans agenda, with no evidence other than the vile bollocks spewed by some really fucked up adults and a very young person who may or may not have been subject to the most awful sexual abuse, and who - in their teens - has courted controversy online with some sexually provocative posturing.

ACshould never have been given a position of influence within the GP. She's too young, she doesn't seem very bright and she employed an election agent who'd been charged with the most vile of offenses. I agree with that. And she herself may turn out to have caused harm - though I see no evidence has been dug up yet, though I suspect it's not through want of trying. But that doesn't mean that her trans status is what made her in appropriate, and it doesn't mean TRA want to allow paedophilia.

I'm not 'linking paedophilia with the trans agenda - that's a fucking horrible thing to say. I think AC is a very damaged young person who has grown up in a really toxic and abusive household. Why you would extrapolate that to make broader accusations against trans people is beyond me.

 

[SpineyNorman]

Right.

It's just a general impression I get from what I know and can deduce about her behaviour and background. Not a lot else to say really

 

[trashpony]

Here's the tweet from Tina. Just to reiterate, I have never once said or even implied that Aimee Challenor is a paedophile and I don't believe she is. I have questioned her fitness for office - I think she's a very damaged person who has grown up in a horrible home with horrible parents. That's all

 

[sheothebudworths]

You think gender segregated bathrooms are a protection against sexual abuse?

Of course they are, you moron.

swimming pool changing room pervert - Google Search

 

[Treacle Toes]

How anyone else could imagine a 10 year old as a ''slut' is unfathomable regardless of the fear Tina may have felt after DC was charged and whatever reasoning he gave her for that. There is poor judgement on many levels in this family and case.

 

[crossthebreeze]

Of course they are, you moron.

swimming pool changing room pervert - Google Search

Unisex changing rooms put women at risk of sexual assault, data reveals

The vast majority of reported sexual assaults at public swimming pools in the UK take place in unisex changing rooms, new statistics reveal.
The data, obtained through a Freedom of Information request by the Sunday Times, suggests that unisex changing rooms are more dangerous for women and girls than single-sex facilities.
Just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment are about incidents in unisex facilities.
What’s more, two thirds of all sexual attacks at leisure centres and public swimming pools take place in unisex changing rooms.
Of 134 complaints over 2017-2018, 120 reported incidents took place in gender-neutral changing rooms and just 14 were in single-sex changing areas.
In a further 46 cases, sexual assault allegations were made about attacks in other areas such as in the pool, in a sports hall or corridors.
Unisex facilities account for less than half the changing areas across the UK, but the number is on the rise - doing away with separate male and female changing rooms and toilets is seen as a way to cut staff costs and better cater for transgender people.​

 

[spanglechick]

I'm not 'linking paedophilia with the trans agenda - that's a fucking horrible thing to say. I think AC is a very damaged young person who has grown up in a really toxic and abusive household. Why you would extrapolate that to make broader accusations against trans people is beyond me.

The link was originally made that someone politically advocating for trans rights is inappropriate and they pose a safeguarding threat, because their parent is a paedophile. That we can't trust that they simply have their stated pro trans agenda, and

Then when anti trans campaigners dug up a teenager's repost of a slightly cheeky gun safety campaign, urbanites with history of opposing trans rights were quick to condemn it as evidence of moral turpitude, going silent when the age and context of the post was discovered. Now today, reports that AC has previously posted about Bronies - a trendy and quite open youth-and-pop-culture kink, we once again have vocal anti trans rights posters leaping to condem AC because of its supposed paedophilia overtones, and again saying that it makes her unfit for office on safeguarding grounds.

The voices rushing to condemn AC over and over are those already committed against trans rights, which suggests that her trans status is in some way relevant. The method repeatedly being used to attack her, is repeated suggestions that she herself is pro-paedophilia.

It's all here.


AC has done one thing wrong (twice), fudging her dad's identity on the GP forms. As far as we know, as far as the legions of mumsnetters have been able to dig up, that's it. She deserves to be dropped, but it's fuck all to do with her being a transwoman, and attempts to link her to paedophilia seem like certain people WANT that to happen.

 

[weepiper]

It's not just Bronies though, she herself was posting on an adult baby forum. I don't care if it's kink shaming to find someone getting sexual kicks from dressing as/pretending to be/treating another adult like a baby really disturbing and evidence of basic wrong un'ness. And the 'advocating for trans rights' was specifically her and her father pushing for trans women to be allowed to be girl guide leaders. DC was already a scout leader. He was trying to break boundaries that would give him and people like him easier access to young girls. AC was potentially being abused by DC and/or DCs friends, certainly groomed to think all this is normal and I stand by my assertion that all of that combined makes her deeply unsuitable to be in a position of influencing policy on such things as sex protected segregation.

 

[Rebelda]

I don't care that AC is trans and don't think she's a paedophile. I also don't think it's safe for someone in (afaict, happy to be corrected) close contact - presumably even taking advice considering DC's role - with people who hold views and perpetrate abuse like her parents' to be allowed to run for political office. Potential access to power with those snake tongues whispering in your ear? Hell no. GP need/ed to be all over it.

What becomes tricky to my mind is...AC is I (I think fairly) assume very damaged by her upbringing. She shouldn't have been allowed to reach the heights (lol) of the GP she did but that's not to say all victims of abuse must be barred from politics. So how should this stuff be monitored? It's not as simple as DBS checking is it? In this case it would have been a start, sure, but if she hadn't made DC her advisor or whatever - then what?

 

[crossthebreeze]

Here's the tweet from Tina. Just to reiterate, I have never once said or even implied that Aimee Challenor is a paedophile and I don't believe she is. I have questioned her fitness for office - I think she's a very damaged person who has grown up in a horrible home with horrible parents. That's all

And TC also stood as a Green Party councillor in 2018 - with DC as election agent - and also branch membership secretary. Is the Green Party incapable of even doing a quick check of its candidates social media? Were no other GP members aware of those posts?

 

[Rebelda]

Also, I'm finding the whole AC/DC thing confusing

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

The link was originally made that someone politically advocating for trans rights is inappropriate and they pose a safeguarding threat, because their parent is a paedophile....

AC clearly has a difficult background, brought up for most of her life in the same household as a predatory child abuser. That predatory child abuser was a cross dresser. Some in the trans advocacy movement (incl. Stonewall) suggest that cross dressers come under the trans umbrella.

AC appointed that person to a position of responsibility, and was happy to be associated with them, despite knowing what they were accused of.
AC clearly didnt believe those allegations, but didn't see the political risk in her actions regardless of whether they were true or not.

AC, through the Green Party, is advising Stonewall on safeguarding procedures including consultation on the GRA.
Lots of people are concerned that self-id will undermine the safety of women and young female (assigned at birth) people.
They are particularly concerned that creepy rapey men will use self-id to gain access to female adults and children for the express purpose of sexually assaulting them.

AC has blocked 10K people through a tool she developed to restrict the communication power of people who have been trying to raise these issues.

*****
Its not because she is a transwoman, its not because she is advocating for trans rights. Its because she is advocating for trans rights in a manner that many people think endangers women and girls. She has a known history of being naive when it comes to serious child sexual abuse, and of taking actions which silence people - mainly women - who are pointing out the potential dangers of the course of action that she promotes.

Survivors can be very important in developing policy, but only after they have processed the trauma. Up until a few weeks ago, DC still had considerable psychological power over AC, and since then she has been in the middle of a shitstorm. She has had no time to process it.

 

[Treacle Toes]

Also, I'm finding the whole AC/DC thing confusing

Yes..I also just wondered after reading my own post why I am talking about TC/topcat the cartoon cat.

 

[Pickman's model]

Also, I'm finding the whole AC/DC thing confusing

You're on the highway to hell

 

[Pickman's model]

AC clearly has a difficult background, brought up for most of her life in the same household as a predatory child abuser. That predatory child abuser was a cross dresser. Some in the trans advocacy movement (incl. Stonewall) suggest that cross dressers come under the trans umbrella.

AC appointed that person to a position of responsibility, and was happy to be associated with them, despite knowing what they were accused of.
AC clearly didnt believe those allegations, but didn't see the political risk in her actions regardless of whether they were true or not.

AC, through the Green Party, is advising Stonewall on safeguarding procedures including consultation on the GRA.
Lots of people are concerned that self-id will undermine the safety of women and young female (assigned at birth) people.
They are particularly concerned that creepy rapey men will use self-id to gain access to female adults and children for the express purpose of sexually assaulting them.

AC has blocked 10K people through a tool she developed to restrict the communication power of people who have been trying to raise these issues.

*****
Its not because she is a transwoman, its not because she is advocating for trans rights. Its because she is advocating for trans rights in a manner that many people think endangers women and girls. She has a known history of being naive when it comes to serious child sexual abuse, and of taking actions which silence people - mainly women - who are pointing out the potential dangers of the course of action that she promotes.

Survivors can be very important in developing policy, but only after they have processed the trauma. Up until a few weeks ago, DC still had considerable psychological power over AC, and since then she has been in the middle of a shitstorm. She has had no time to process it.

You don't seem to have read the bit about self id in the stonewall def, it's not oh there's a cross-dresser they must be trans

 

[spanglechick]

It's not just Bronies though, she herself was posting on an adult baby forum. I don't care if it's kink shaming to find someone getting sexual kicks from dressing as/pretending to be/treating another adult like a baby really disturbing and evidence of basic wrong un'ness. And the 'advocating for trans rights' was specifically her and her father pushing for trans women to be allowed to be girl guide leaders. DC was already a scout leader. He was trying to break boundaries that would give him and people like him easier access to young girls. AC was potentially being abused by DC and/or DCs friends, certainly groomed to think all this is normal and I stand by my assertion that all of that combined makes her deeply unsuitable to be in a position of influencing policy on such things as sex protected segregation.

Run through for me why trans women shouldn't be allowed to be guide leaders? Given that scouts have both male and female children and male and female leaders?

Or that mixed groups of school children go on overnight trips with male and female teachers.

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

You don't seem to have read the bit about self id in the stonewall def, it's not oh there's a cross-dresser they must be trans

From the stonewall definition

"
TRANS
An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, two-spirit, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois."

DC dressed in clothes traditionally associated with females and used a traditionally feminine name of "Lucy" while doing this.

Is DC a cross dresser?
Are they only a cross dresser if they say "I am a cross dresser"?

 

[SpackleFrog]

Like this isn't the precise opposite of what posters who have swallowed the tg agenda are doing. Defend, minimise, ignore, disparage, smear anyone who says, 'hang on'. I've had a "pro-trans" poster implying that I'm a paedophile.

Co-op has probably got me on ignore by now but just for the record, I don't think they are a paedo. But if I were to think like co-op does then I would have to conclude that co-op is an abuser:

No regret, no reflection, no attempt to understand, just accuse, accuse, accuse. "I haven't done anything wrong, it's everyone else" - this is what abusers say.

Co-op is clear about having no regrets about what they say, does not reflect on criticism from others, makes no attempt to understand anyone else, repeats smears and accusations and is convinced they have done nothing wrong, it's all those TRA people

So by Co-op's definition they would indeed be an abuser. But obviously I don't think like that and am not saying that.

ALTHOUGH

If it's the latter of course I would withdraw the accusation but JB hasn't denied it that I have seen.

Shit guys. I don't see co-op denying that they are a paedo.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Has anyone claimed that, then?

No one has said that though.

Plenty of people have implied that on the thread

 

[Athos]

Plenty of people have implied that on the thread

Which posts, specifically.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Of course they are, you moron.

swimming pool changing room pervert - Google Search

I said bathrooms. Also, it's very much possible to be sexually assaulted in a gender segregated changing room.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Which posts, specifically.

Oh fuck off mate, read the thread. I've been fairly patient with going back and quoting stuff, particularly in co-ops case.

 

[Athos]

Oh fuck off mate, read the thread. I've been fairly patient with going back and quoting stuff, particularly in co-ops case.

I've read it. I can't find what you're referring to. Are you able to point to any examples?

 

[crossthebreeze]

I said bathrooms. Also, it's very much possible to be sexually assaulted in a gender segregated changing room.

Of course its very much possible, but stats show just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment at public swimming pools in the UK are about incidents in unisex facilities while less than half of changing areas are unisex. See the link in my post #368

 

[SpackleFrog]

I've read it. I can't find what you're referring to. Are you able to point to any examples?

lazy tool...

It's not just Bronies though, she herself was posting on an adult baby forum. I don't care if it's kink shaming to find someone getting sexual kicks from dressing as/pretending to be/treating another adult like a baby really disturbing and evidence of basic wrong un'ness.

Mm.



this is not a stable young person. The Green Party can't safeguard for toffee, clearly

Get this man away from children.

I completely agree that the kind of prophet-of-kink types who flaunt their 'openness' about sexuality are often little more than abusers on a confidence trick.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Of course its very much possible, but stats show just under 90 per cent of complaints regarding changing room sexual assaults, voyeurism and harassment at public swimming pools in the UK are about incidents in unisex facilities while less than half of changing areas are unisex. See the link in my post #368

Fair enough. Although I would expect unreported incidences of sexual assault in segregated changing rooms, particularly male ones, to be much higher.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The thing I'd really focus on in this mess is the terfblocker. That is antipolitics from a politician, and deeply antidemocratic, and the Greens should be ashamed of themselves for allowing and facilitating that kind of measure. It is designed to shut down debate and exacerbate the internet's already strong tendency to provide us with reflections of ourselves, isolating ourselves from the arguments of those who would disagree. The very idea is rotten to its core. You are a politician on Twitter? Well then, you damn well open yourself up to hear from everyone. Don't want to do that? Don't be a damn politician.