The Green Party has some serious questions to answer

[andysays]

Aimee said she needed to be left alone after her dad's sentencing to care for her disabled mother. Her disabled mother who stood up in court and accused the victim of being a lying fantasist and of being a little slut. When she was a 10 year old child.

In addition, Tina (as well as David) was convicted of animal cruelty in 2015 which means she was unable to stand as a Green Party councillor in 2018 - because she had a 3 month suspended sentence. She stood anyway. And David Challenor was also her election agent.

All of that is to be condemned, and I do, but that's just more evidence of the utter disfunctionality of AC's family background.
I was just wondering if she was actively campaigning for a change in the law regarding age of consent, given the accusations that the other Challenors are being accused of actively and deliberately campaigning to weaken legal protections against child abuse, something which I still haven't seen any actual evidence for here.
I can't see that there's much point in heaping up yet more examples of cuntishness when that's already been well demonstrated.

 

[Pickman's model]

Sometimes the discussion about tg stuff does seem to focus too much on individual personalities

Like when the telegraph produced hitler's dietary preference as an argument against vegetarianism

Like when co-op did his best to impose transgenderism on dc

 

[cupid_stunt]

In addition, Tina (as well as David) was convicted of animal cruelty in 2015 which means she was unable to stand as a Green Party councillor in 2018 - because she had a 3 month suspended sentence. She stood anyway. And David Challenor was also her election agent.

I did a quick google search on this animal cruelty conviction, but couldn't find anything.

Where are you getting this from?

Not twitter, I hope.

 

[SpackleFrog]

We need to prevent sexual abuse. Which is why there's so much concern about what little protection females have being eroded to accommodate a relatively tiny number of people born biologically male and raised and socialised as boys and men.

You think gender segregated bathrooms are a protection against sexual abuse?

As Pickers has pointed out the vast majority of sexual abuse is committed by people known to victims. Not social outcasts in dark alley ways. People known to victims who are often viewed as 'respectable' who get themselves into positions of power or access.

You know what's *really* gender segregated? The Catholic Church.

Guess what, all the bathrooms at my uni are now gender neutral. I fucking hate it to be honest with you, I don't like shitting in the same room as other blokes but at least I'm used to that. But it's not causing an increase in sexual assaults. There are sexual assaults on campus but they're not happening in brightly lit bathrooms with lots of other people around.

 

[spanglechick]

I did a quick google search on this animal cruelty conviction, but couldn't find anything.

Where are you getting this from?

Not twitter, I hope.

I've seen the court report on TC. The charge broadly seemed to amount to having a fucktonne of animals in a tiny house and not looking after them.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I've seen the court report on TC. The charge broadly seemed to amount to having a fucktonne of animals in a tiny house and not looking after them.

Surely the not looking after them is the animal cruelty/abuse? Come on. That's what it is for everyone else. Neglect, poor judgement, leading to suffering. Not every case of AC has to be purposeful torture. It comes in many guises.

 

[Pickman's model]

You think gender segregated bathrooms are a protection against sexual abuse?

As Pickers has pointed out the vast majority of sexual abuse is committed by people known to victims. Not social outcasts in dark alley ways. People known to victims who are often viewed as 'respectable' who get themselves into positions of power or access.

You know what's *really* gender segregated? The Catholic Church.

Guess what, all the bathrooms at my uni are now gender neutral. I fucking hate it to be honest with you, I don't like shitting in the same room as other blokes but at least I'm used to that. But it's not causing an increase in sexual assaults. There are sexual assaults on campus but they're not happening in brightly lit bathrooms with lots of other people around.

Pickers is not Pickman's model

 

[spanglechick]

Surely the not looking after them is the animal abuse? Come on.

I wasn't trying to imply that the conviction was undeserved. Sounds terrible. Just that it wasn't "Croydon cat ripper" territory.

 

[Pickman's model]

I wasn't trying to imply that the conviction was undeserved. Sounds terrible. Just that it wasn't "Croydon cat ripper" territory.

I suppose we should be relieved dc wasn't using them for his own perverted ends

 

[spanglechick]

I suppose we should be relieved dc wasn't using them for his own perverted ends

Well yes. I think the type of animal abuse is relevant to understanding more about the type of home AC grew up in. And potentially to understanding whether TC is a Rose West type, or "just" a nasty piece of work.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I wasn't trying to imply that the conviction was undeserved. Sounds terrible. Just that it wasn't "Croydon cat ripper" territory.

Yeah..I know...see my edit.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Tina Challenor has referred to the victim as a 'little slut' in a tweet. I can find it for you but I'm sure I'm not the only person on this thread who has seen the revolting things she's written about her husband's child rape and torture victim

You're the only person who has mentioned it. Given co-ops deceitful bullshit, I'm sure you'll indulge us with evidence of your claims.

Not that anything AC's mother says means AC is a paedophile.

Not that DC's wife blaming the child or calling her a slut means that she was involved in any way in the abuse either, come to that. Shitty behaviour sure. Indicative of awful attitudes. But also quite possibly borne of denial, or an inability to process what her husband has done.

Urban is one of the few bits of the Internet that I like because people don't tend to engage in guilt by association. I don't really like all this "sins of the father" shite to be honest.

 

[cupid_stunt]

There's far too many claims being made, without links and/or sources to back them up, it's becoming very uncomfortable, TBH.

 

[SpackleFrog]

Coming in a bit late on this but I've got to say I'm not convinced by the argument that just because something is forms part of someone's 'kink' it is beyond criticism and reading anything into kinks is akin to homophobia. I didn't find it convincing in the SWP splitters race play debate (lol) and I don't think it's fair to expect people not to raise an eyebrow when they find out that Green Party woman's kinks overlap so heavily with the forms of abuse her dad committed while living under the same roof. It might not be admissible in a court of law but the burden of proof is considerably lower when you're talking suitability for safeguarding roles etc

No one's saying you can't raise an eyebrow. I'm not saying you can't react to it or criticise it! But it's a whole jump beyond that to say that a fetish means someone is therefore an abuser of someone else who doesn't consent.

 

[Pickman's model]

There's far too many claims being made, without links and/or sources to back them up, it's becoming very uncomfortable, TBH.

Yeh it's all a bit billie piper for me

 

[Athos]

I'm at a loss to see why a simple clear question required so much effort to get a relevant answer out of you

There's a lot you're at a loss to see.

 

[Athos]

No one's saying you can't raise an eyebrow. I'm not saying you can't react to it or criticise it! But it's a whole jump beyond that to say that a fetish means someone is therefore an abuser of someone else who doesn't consent.

Has anyone claimed that, then?

 

[Pickman's model]

There's a lot you're at a loss to see.

Yes. A good man knows his limitations, as Harry Callahan said, and I know mine.

 

[co-op]

I wish people would do some very basic research into how the prison system works.

Someone convicted of these kind of crimes would be kept in solitary confinement.

Coming out as transgender would not get them transferred to an open wing of a women’s prison.

Wait - you're claiming that someone convicted of paedophile rape is automatically kept in solitary confinement for the whole of their sentence? In this case 22 years?

It sounds like you might be the one who needs to do some "very basic research" into how the prison system works. For a start any sc longer than 42 days requires the authorisation of the Secretary of State.

You're talking twaddle.

 

[xenon]

No one's saying you can't raise an eyebrow. I'm not saying you can't react to it or criticise it! But it's a whole jump beyond that to say that a fetish means someone is therefore an abuser of someone else who doesn't consent.

No one has said that though.

 

[spanglechick]

The sometime elephant in the room, is that all the people on this thread who are most critical of Aimee Challenor, are also some of the most vehement posters against trans inclusion, on other threads.

But I fail to see any strong link between this case and the GRC.

 

[andysays]

The sometime elephant in the room, is that all the people on this thread who are most critical of Aimee Challenor, are also some of the most vehement posters against trans inclusion, on other threads.

But I fail to see any strong link between this case and the GRC.

That's what I find most disturbing and disappointing about much of this thread, that for some posters this issue is merely a proxy for the wider Trans/TERF argument, and that they seem to be happy to smear this admittedly unpleasant and unsympathetic individual with guilt by association as if that somehow demonstrates something about trans people or trans rights in general.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I feel sorry for AC. I'm not going to speculate too much about her childhood but I think it's safe to say it wasn't exactly perfect given who her dad was. I don't see any evidence that she was involved in any abuse and until I do will assume she's innocent of that. I think she's a very damaged individual.

But none of that detracts from the fact that it was utterly irresponsible of the greens to allow her to get so high up in the party and someone somewhere needs to be asked some serious questions about how this was allowed to happen.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I find the fetish line of argument problematic.

It's pretty essential, since second / third wave feminism to acknowledge that women's traditionally less kinky attitude to sex comes in part from the patriarchal expectation that nice girls don't do that kind of thing. Not that non kinky types are repressed, but that in the past many of them suppressed their libido. How many of us read Nancy Friday's collections of female fantasies as a young woman and felt empowered to acknowledge our own? Sex positivity is at the intrinsic to almost all contemporary feminist thought.


BDSM is enormously popular with men and women. Fifty shades of Grey - while scorned by the fetish community precisely because it disempowers the female submissive - became a phenomenal bestseller with a near exclusively female demographic.
I used to do Ann Summers parties, and furry handcuffs, diamanté-handled crops, and nipple clamps were enormously popular.

Many of the people, men and women, enthusiastically and consensualy engaging in bdsm will also have lives relating to the safeguarding of children. They will be parents, teachers, doctors...

And who gets to decide where the line is drawn between acceptable and unacceptable types or levels of kink? Because I'd have thought the only dividing line is consent.

Well said. I didn't have the time to expand earlier, but I wanted to say similar things, particularly the bit in bold. Things become pathologised with technical, medical-sounding terms like paraphilia, but what is sexy underwear if not an example of paraphilia. Fetish is far more widespread and 'normal' than is sometimes allowed: your fetish is paraphilia and perversion and makes you someone to distrust; I don't even recognise my fetish as it is so normalised within me and my life that I just don't see that this is what it is.

 

[co-op]

That's what I find most disturbing and disappointing about much of this thread, that for some posters this issue is merely a proxy for the wider Trans/TERF argument, and that they seem to be happy to smear this admittedly unpleasant and unsympathetic individual with guilt by association as if that somehow demonstrates something about trans people or trans rights in general.

Like this isn't the precise opposite of what posters who have swallowed the tg agenda are doing. Defend, minimise, ignore, disparage, smear anyone who says, 'hang on'. I've had a "pro-trans" poster implying that I'm a paedophile.

 

[Treacle Toes]

I think she's a very damaged individual.

Would you share why you think that?

 

[crossthebreeze]

Anyway, getting back to the Green Party, it seems that DC's arrest was reported by AC to the Green Party (though not through the proper channels) but fuck all was done about it:

From Green Party Women facebook:

Green Party Women:
"In its support of Aimee the Party should have made clear that she was in care/supported independent living and therefore not living at home during the period the police have stated the crimes took place. Aimee was similarly not living at home when her father was charged in November 2016.

"However, what little information Aimee had about the charges she shared with the Party at that time, as is now fully apparent. We call for any subsequent statements by the Party to publicly acknowledge this. How this information was not retained by the Party will hopefully become clear & lessons learnt in the investigation.

from a comment by Green Party Women:
"It was reported to one of the External Communications Coordinators who was elected like Judy onto GPEx who then reported it to the GPEW press team in Nov 2016."

 

[Pickman's model]

Like this isn't the precise opposite of what posters who have swallowed the tg agenda are doing. Defend, minimise, ignore, disparage, smear anyone who says, 'hang on'. I've had a "pro-trans" poster implying that I'm a paedophile.

You weren't saying hang on when you said dc was trans because you thought he fitted the stonewall def.

 

[andysays]

Like this isn't the precise opposite of what posters who have swallowed the tg agenda are doing. Defend, minimise, ignore, disparage, smear anyone who says, 'hang on'. I've had a "pro-trans" poster implying that I'm a paedophile.

No you haven't, you twit...

 

[Pickman's model]

No you haven't, you twit...

Hold on, I think that's just the start of a larger smear or skidmark