Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
No, the Belters speak their own patois, which is supposed to be hard to understand. You'll pick up a few words as you go on.
"The Expanse" - New near-future sci-fi TV
- Thread starter Crispy
- Start date
No, the Belters speak their own patois, which is supposed to be hard to understand. You'll pick up a few words as you go on.
No - they're not.
I think it has quite a cheap feel about it personally. It is good though.
Reno
The In Kraut
I'm four episodes in and wavering as the whether to stick with it. It looks fantastic, the world building is the best I've seen on a science fiction show. The attention to detail both how these societies function (space Mormons!) and how to be reasonably accurate about the science (no bogus artificial gravity, no "warp drive") is exceptional for a space opera. But it falls down where so many science fiction shows fail for me, in its characterisation. All of these characters are stereotypes with little personality so far. For someone not familiar with the books it's also difficult to follow at times. Too many characters and none of them memorable. I need to keep an episode guide handy. I'll give it one more and see....
Teenage Cthulhu got banned ?
Teenage Cthulhu got banned ?
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purves grundy
ambient clown remix
Sounds good this
8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
I'm four episodes in and wavering as the whether to stick with it. It looks fantastic, the world building is the best I've seen on a science fiction show. The attention to detail both how these societies function (space Mormons!) and how to be reasonably accurate about the science (no bogus artificial gravity, no "warp drive") is exceptional for a space opera. But it falls down where so many science fiction shows fail for me, in its characterisation. All of these characters are stereotypes with little personality so far. For someone not familiar with the books it's also difficult to follow at times. Too many characters and none of them memorable. I need to keep an episode guide handy. I'll give it one more and see....
Teenage Cthulhu got banned ?
Firky got banned.
Reno
The In Kraut
8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
Ooooh, OK.
I think the characters are a lil poorly drawn.
But I think alot of good sci fi show has started with some weak characterisation.
Reno
The In Kraut
That's why I find it difficult to get into most sci fi shows. I'm more into character driven shows and few genre shows work for me on that level. Shame, because I like a lot of sci fi films and this is interesting on many levels. Just watching episode 5 and my attention is wandering...
purves grundy
ambient clown remix
Well I never
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I've said it often enough, you can tell space opera on the screen if you have enough space to do so. It's a style of story that hugely benefits from what you can do with the written. Expanse has had me rapt and yes I'll mention it in the same breath as earlier BSG and...and...and? see? What else have I got. Not much I could honestly say 'this space opera is comparable to the best of the written'
I struggle to think of anything of a film length thats ever done it properly either. I don't think its not possible I just can't think of a space opera that really has the same scope you can get from the novel.
Reno
The In Kraut
As I said, in terms of its world building, visuals and ideas its very impressive. I just can't engage with any show on an emotional level which doesn't have interesting characters and this doesn't. Despite being intrigued by the world of the show, I think episode 5 will have been my last one because the characters don't hold my attention. As science fiction this is great, as drama it's lacking.
I also can't read most science fiction novels, because they suffer from the same thing, flat, unengaging characters. I know that they make up for it with ideas and plot, but especially the older I get, interesting characters are the what I find the most engaging thing about fiction. With films it matters slightly less because they only last a couple of hours, but with tv shows and novels I don't have the patience.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I'm grinning because you explain a precise truth about sci fi storytelling as Banks did. If you are going to tell a story of love, life and so on then why not just write a 'mainstream' novel or script? When you've ideas to impart that shape the entire narrative in a manner that makes the characters behave in ways you or I have no direct experience of then well, it'll suffer. Modern sci fi is doing better on character driven stuff btw. You can also go back and find a lot more sci fi writing that isn't so. What we have the time and inclination for eh?you must read 'Door into Ocean' though. I will give you two pounds if you do and give me a review.
8den
No I'm pretty sure that was 8ball...
Actually it reminds me a little bit of Blake 7. A group of renegades on the run from a dystopian all powerful empire in an advanced ship.
Reno
The In Kraut
you must read 'Door into Ocean' though. I will give you two pounds if you do and give me a review.
There was no good reason for The Expanse to not have better written characters. Despite being futuristic, the situations they find themselves in are relatable. I find it frustrating because there is a lot I like about The Expanse. I don't expect a story about love, just characters who have a bit of personality instead of them being a compendium of the most basic cliches. BSG had more interesting characters even if it was no The Wire, though that lost me by season three or four because the plot turned a bit rubbish.
The last science fiction novel I enjoyed was Michael Fabers Under the Skin, because that was also a great character study, apart from packing in Ideas about our place in the food chain, class and extraterrestrial life but then Faber is generally not a science fiction writer. Very different from the film which I also liked, but for different reasons.
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DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
you can be so literal sometimes reno. Perhaps I should have said a 'normal human story'
but I take your point on the idea that they had space to make characters of greater depth. I don't agree with it but I see where you are coming from. Essentially the human experience, translated into an Expanse universe or otherwise should be in depth relatable and charachters to act so. It might be SPAAAAACE but its still humans.
Led by a nonce?
stdP
One Swiss dinosaur in Polly Gosling's anorak hood
Hopefully getting time to watch The Expanse over the weekend so have only glossed over the thread. Reno as on point as ever though so I'm slightly worried, especially given the "too many characters" thing... I found Game of Thrones impossible to follow because I could never remember anyone's name (I'm really shit with remembering names).
Glad you liked Under the Skin (I was bought it as a present a decade ago, thought it would be shit, loved it), I seem to remember you recommending the film as well. But all your points about characterisation, and the side-tracking of characterisations to give better world building sadly ring all too true. Best sci-fi in my experience is about characters interacting with a sci-fi backdrop rather than a sci-fi universe manipulating the characters. Looper was a great example in how to build a world populated by people I couldn't give a shit about trying and failing to straighten out an incoherent plot. It's sad to think there are roles that even JG-L and Emily Blunt can't bring me to care about. And I still think the best sci-fi work of the century is Oryx and Crake (although its author sadly refuses to acknowledge it as sci-fi).
Will no doubt pass judgement shortly
Glad you liked Under the Skin (I was bought it as a present a decade ago, thought it would be shit, loved it), I seem to remember you recommending the film as well. But all your points about characterisation, and the side-tracking of characterisations to give better world building sadly ring all too true. Best sci-fi in my experience is about characters interacting with a sci-fi backdrop rather than a sci-fi universe manipulating the characters. Looper was a great example in how to build a world populated by people I couldn't give a shit about trying and failing to straighten out an incoherent plot. It's sad to think there are roles that even JG-L and Emily Blunt can't bring me to care about. And I still think the best sci-fi work of the century is Oryx and Crake (although its author sadly refuses to acknowledge it as sci-fi).
Will no doubt pass judgement shortly
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I thought atwood had softened on her genre-snobby stance. Man is she acerbic sometimes. Read an interview or three. You'd not want to be the fool around her as you'd not be suffered gladly. Or even at all.
stdP
One Swiss dinosaur in Polly Gosling's anorak hood
Also finally got around to watching all of this last night. Erm, yay cold and being ill I guess 
Very pleasantly surprised with the show and loving the overall aesthetic (give me truckers in space battling real laws of physics over FTL and infinite resource MacGuffins any day). Didn't have any problems with following the different characters since they're all quite easy to separate, although I'd tend to agree that they need a bit more in the way of characterisation... they're all a bit cookie-cutter at the moment, with the notable exception of that superbly imperious bitch of a UN rep
Room for a fair bit more directorial flair in that regard especially. Wish there had been more of the background for the Martian psyche as it seems like it's a hugely important plot point and I don't really feel like their role in this has been fleshed out very well and so my impression of them kept being polluted by characters from Red/Green/Blue Mars.
Looking forward to the next series. Not looking forward to its untimely cancellation.
Very pleasantly surprised with the show and loving the overall aesthetic (give me truckers in space battling real laws of physics over FTL and infinite resource MacGuffins any day). Didn't have any problems with following the different characters since they're all quite easy to separate, although I'd tend to agree that they need a bit more in the way of characterisation... they're all a bit cookie-cutter at the moment, with the notable exception of that superbly imperious bitch of a UN rep
Room for a fair bit more directorial flair in that regard especially. Wish there had been more of the background for the Martian psyche as it seems like it's a hugely important plot point and I don't really feel like their role in this has been fleshed out very well and so my impression of them kept being polluted by characters from Red/Green/Blue Mars.Looking forward to the next series. Not looking forward to its untimely cancellation.
stdP
One Swiss dinosaur in Polly Gosling's anorak hood
Correction: would have been very nice 
The scenes with the Donnager (and especially under fire) were altogether very good (and the sequence with the railgun hull breach was genuinely brilliant I thought, even if all in the room wouldn't have been rendered unconscious and/or liquefied by the shockwave) but there's too much talk about "the martians are, like, totally dedicated to their cause!" rather than just showing of martians like totally dedicated to their cause. Given that the entire plot seems to hinge on the tensions between martian psyche vs. earth psyche vs. belter psyche and that a) earth psyche well represented by aforementioned superbly imperious bitch of a UN rep b) belter psyche well represented by about half the cast I'd have thought there was at least a bit of room for some awesome MCRN posturing. Maybe get Patrick Stewart in as an MCRN admiral?
Still, not wishing to pour scorn on what I thought was a genuinely good series. I just have impossible standards and I dare say I will be buying the books shortly and soon chiming in on the thread with the token "it's not as good as the books!" post
The scenes with the Donnager (and especially under fire) were altogether very good (and the sequence with the railgun hull breach was genuinely brilliant I thought, even if all in the room wouldn't have been rendered unconscious and/or liquefied by the shockwave) but there's too much talk about "the martians are, like, totally dedicated to their cause!" rather than just showing of martians like totally dedicated to their cause. Given that the entire plot seems to hinge on the tensions between martian psyche vs. earth psyche vs. belter psyche and that a) earth psyche well represented by aforementioned superbly imperious bitch of a UN rep b) belter psyche well represented by about half the cast I'd have thought there was at least a bit of room for some awesome MCRN posturing. Maybe get Patrick Stewart in as an MCRN admiral? Still, not wishing to pour scorn on what I thought was a genuinely good series. I just have impossible standards and I dare say I will be buying the books shortly and soon chiming in on the thread with the token "it's not as good as the books!" post
Crispy
The following psytrance is baṉned: All
I have not, and I don't intend to. I just caught the tail of a discussion about how hard it'll be to cast this marine . She's supposed to be 6 and a half feet tall and polynesian.My mind is now made up and I will demand nothing less than Patrick Stewart as a pseudo-fascist warlord. But then I'm prone to flights of fancy like that
Crispy, you read the books? Do you know what's (meant to be) coming next?
stdP
One Swiss dinosaur in Polly Gosling's anorak hood
Well I dare say a pan-Asian-American actress and a Scully Box can go a long way into filling that particular niche.
The WP summary for the next book in the series says its mostly centred around a war on Ganymede, hence the marine connection. Seems like it might be set some time after the events of the first series though also featuring the crew of the Roaching Auntie... so suspect there'll be some bending of the storyline there to give a better sense of continuity.
The WP summary for the next book in the series says its mostly centred around a war on Ganymede, hence the marine connection. Seems like it might be set some time after the events of the first series though also featuring the crew of the Roaching Auntie... so suspect there'll be some bending of the storyline there to give a better sense of continuity.
I read Leviathan Wakes a few years ago. It's not very good. Dan Abnett writes better than James Corey. Terrible flat characters.
The Expanse is one of those rare cases where the TV series is better.
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