brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
But long enough to mock the "auld biddies" for their attachment to the passbooks they'd used all of their adult lives before you rocked up at their bank branch.
The end of cash?
- Thread starter danny la rouge
- Start date
that was four years ago and was also done by the 'Access for Cash Review' team, which I struggle to believe is really as independent as they claim... but people being scared of change doesn't mean we stop making any changes. it means we better educate people so they realise the change isn't the scary thing they think it is. which is why we're not all still living in caves rubbing twigs together.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Of course, over that 4 year period cash use has increased.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
This looks a lot like cherry picking the data to me I suspect a lot of people in the middle two groups are more emotionally attached to the idea of cash in their pockets than have actually thought about the practicalities of it. It's also something that is generational, I do almost all of my transactions via card/phone but I carry some cash with me just in case. My adult offspring view this attitude as further proof that Dad is an old fogey.
not sure if you're on a wind-up or deluded.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I'm quite flabbergasted at how ok we seem to be here with the overall idea of social exclusion due to not having a bank account, and that our go-to solution to that problem isn't to make it less necessary to have a bank account, but rather to make sure everybody has a bank account. Fine bunch of lefties we are 
To reference a popular U75 meme, Keir Starmer’s time it seems to me is far from 'up'. It's only just beginning.
To reference a popular U75 meme, Keir Starmer’s time it seems to me is far from 'up'. It's only just beginning.
you're arguing with that straw man again.I'm quite flabbergasted at how ok we seem to be here with the overall idea of social exclusion due to not having a bank account, and that our go-to solution to that problem isn't to make it less necessary to have a bank account, but rather to make sure everybody has a bank account. Fine bunch of lefties we are
To reference a popular U75 meme, Keir Starmer’s time it seems to me is far from 'up'. It's only just beginning.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Nah if there's a straw man here it's the idea that if you don't want a bank account you must be a conspiraloon who doesn't want / deserve healthcare, education, or to go shopping.
"During the worst of the pandemic all transactions fell, but cash use dropped particularly sharply as shopkeepers preferred contactless methods.
"But while the Post Office is processing more cash transactions in the short term, over the longer-term, the trend away from cash is set to continue, with UK Finance, the body representing the banking industry, forecasting cash will account for only 6% of payments by 2031.
"The use of notes and coins has already fallen dramatically over the last decade, from 55% of payments in 2011 to 15% last year."
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
The Ceeny report came out in 2018. I'd have answered very differently in 2018 to how I would now.
I really don't see why it is left wing to prefer people to use cash rather than have a bank account. Cash is just as much part of our wonderful capitalist system. After a revolution, I'm sure we'd still need something like bank accounts even if they were some kind of decentralised anarchist crypto-based thing.
I really don't see why it is left wing to prefer people to use cash rather than have a bank account. Cash is just as much part of our wonderful capitalist system. After a revolution, I'm sure we'd still need something like bank accounts even if they were some kind of decentralised anarchist crypto-based thing.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
The 'left' thing is more about the tacit support for the banking industry that cashlessness needs. And be in no doubt, making everyone need a bank account in order to access social services, food supply, housing and other essentials is 100% support for the banking industry, cementing their position and status. That's the clear direction of travel, and we seem to be ok with it.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
The amount of straw-manning on this thread is pretty impressive.
Looks like someone must be getting a sizable discount for paying with cash
Very soon you can be sure it will be impossible to use a real straw man, it'll need to be a digitally-verified e-straw man you can only exchange via a reductio ad appsurdum QR code.
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
I think this is nonsense. You might just as well say that making everyone need internet is 100% support for the tech industry (when it's clearly far more complex than that) or that making everyone wear clothes is 100% support for Big Textile and their sweat shops. The banking industry can be better regulated / reformed / nationalised / co-operatised - that's where the political argument should be, not on the level of refusing to use its services in some sort of individualised act of political expression.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
There are of course plenty of other reasons why cash handling in Post Offices is increasing - all those bank branch closures
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Reformism is a valid argument, fair enough.
edit..., Boycotting is also valid, sadly boycotting cashlessness is looking to become harder and harder.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
PR1Berske
Alligator in chains by the park gates.
Maybe early U75 wouldn't like modern U75, we need to have a thread.
liquidindian
Hello
This is a graph of cash withdrawals at ATMs from the Link website. I think this is probably a good indicator of cash use, as it's where most people get their cash. You can see the rise in cash use in context.It's like the pro-banker elements on here are just willing the demise of cash and start frothing when evidence of increasing cash use is produced.
I'm not cheerleading for banks. This is just what is happening.
strung out
💩 🤣 🍆 💦 🧐 👻 🐝 🐈⬛
I just don't understand why you're so pro the Royal Mint. Some anarchist you are.It's like the pro-banker elements on here are just willing the demise of cash and start frothing when evidence of increasing cash use is produced.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Oh well as long as it doesn't affect you, that's all good then innit.That's most of the world's problems wiped out at a stroke because they don't bother teuchter from Urban75.
You guys! I see what you are up to - you want to make this into a fun parody thread like the Brewdog one where we take turns to post up increasingly hyperbolic nonsense. Happy to play along!
lazythursday
Averagely-Known Member
nice of you to pick on 'reformism' when I put a whole spectrum of approaches in that post. And you're right, boycotting is a valid tactic, I just don't think it will work - not least, because if this thread is anything to go by, boycotters just aren't interested in engaging the vast majority of the public, they just want to berate them.
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
65% of people with mental health issues might find it harder to manage their money.
Broadly agree with this but all people vary some might, some might not nor does it mean that such people don't have issues managing money regardless of whether it's cash or card.
67% of people on low incomes might struggle to balance their household budget
This is downright insulting the implication being that people on low incomes can't add up or track their money because they can't see it.
Clearly the reason they're poor is that they're thick. Straight out of the Daily Heil playbook.
63% of people would lose the value of money; they say holding cash in your hands makes you think more about how you spend it.
This is just another variation on the one above, some people like to see the cash, some aren't bothered. But whether it is a good thing or a bad thing is entirely personal choice.
56% of rural communities would become less viable.
This is definitely stretching the point, I would suggest lack of affordable housing and employment opportunities are far more significant issues for rural communities than lack of cash.
74% say we would all be more vulnerable to cyber-attacks
The greatest risk to people as individuals in a cashless society would be someone stealing their card as opposed to just stealing physical money, great thing about cards is the bank carries the risk not the individual.
51% of people would become less social
Again how? Going out and meeting people makes people social. The idea that buying someone a drink is friendlier using cash rather than a card is bizarre
69% say it would be difficult to pay for certain things like trademen and window cleaners.
I haven't paid trademen including window cleaners with cash since at least before lockdown. Even our local Chinese now takes card and they held out longer than anyone. I believe from reports from other Urbs that even drug dealers take cards these days.
60% say we would have less privacy.
Yes that's true of course but if not being tracked was your most important concern, you would have to stop using loyalty cards, mobile phones, private cars and cover your face in public. There is also some general misunderstanding about how paying for groceries with your card actually works. If you use your debit card in Tesco's the transaction is done via encrypted tunnelling, Tesco's servers don't see your card data just a bank transfer from your account to Tesco's. That's why you have a loyalty card so they can know who you are and what've you bought. It would make more sense to dump the loyalty card rather than use cash.
74% say charities and homeless people would suffer if people didn't carry small change.
Sadly this one is definitely true, Whilst most of my charitable giving is via standing order, I have been much less generous with the homeless recently simply because I rarely have change. Whilst I have made the odd concious effort to sometimes carry change for this purpose it requires active rather than passive action on my part. However surely the solution to this is not to encourage people to carry donateable cash but greater effort to get the homeless into employment and housing.
70% say people wouldn't have the peace of mind of having spare cash in their pockets.
This is just nonsense even though I personally do in fact carry cash for this purpose, peace of mind is purely a mental state.
75% say some older people would find it difficult to do everyday things like pay bills.
This is a very popular argument but it seems to be a bit of a strawman, what bills? how many people pay their utility bills these days by going to the PO with cash and handing it over? If that's the case how is it different than using a card? And bills are better paid by DD anyway so the elderly don't have to venture out in the cold and wet to pay their bills. This is an argument for better (and free) access to banking services.
72% say vulnerable groups of people are more likely to get scammed or defrauded.
Definitely true since you can't really send cash over the phone but they can still lose cash when their homes are robbed and the odds of this go up as more people are suspected of keeping cash at home. This is again an argument for something else ie more robust policing and better social services (this applies to point 1 as well)
74% say it would take away people's right to choose.
Classic FOTL logic here, if you claim a right to demand to pay in cash then the retailer has an equal right to tell you to sod off.
79% say people who don't have access to good internet connections would lose out.
More stretching, Digital Exclusion of the Poor is a major social problem that we are doing little to nothing to address. But whilst it makes online banking harder, it isn't really relevant to the case of card vs cash.You don't need any kind of internet connection at all to use a card so long as the retailer has one. Commercial internet connections are far more robust than domestic ones with 99.99% (or 99.999%) availability often written into the contract.
That's because it's a good idea, just because something is an evil capitalist plot doesn't mean it's a bad thing. They no doubt think it's a good idea and are encouraging it but the move away from cash is being driven by the public for MOST of whom it is of benefit not by the banks.
We all agree that there is a problem in that some of society are being unintentionally excluded as a result of this and as a society we need to do something about this, however trying to force people who don't want to use cash to start using it again is not going to work.
LeytonCatLady
Well-Known Member
No one wants to force anyone to use cash who doesn't want to. We'd just like to keep it as an option for those who do want/need to use it, which could be for any of the reasons you have covered. I don't get why that's such a bone of contention. If cash isn't convenient for you, that's fine, you do you. However, many people won't have as many options.
Also:
It's not about being thick. The fact is, if you're on a budget, sticking with cash is safest. Banks don't always update your statement straight away when you use a card. I'm currently unemployed and watching my spending to the penny, and for me, cash is the easiest way to do that. I don't consider that an insult, just a fact! Acknowledging this doesn't make someone a Daily Heil type, and I think it's reaching to claim otherwise, not to mention judgmental.
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MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
The number of retailers taking cash will continue to fall, the number of cashpoints will continue to fall. This won't change unless a significant percentage of the population start insisting on paying in cash for a significant percentage of their transactions and stick to their guns about it. This is largely against most people's best interests so it's hard to see why they will do it.
Your right to use cash is not a bone of contention other people's right to not use cash is also not a bone of contention. At some point your right to use cash and their right not to is going to cause conflict when you can't spend your cash. So either you insist on them being forced to use cash or they insist on you not.
As for budgeting whatever is best for you, if you feel happiest doing your budgeting by counting your actual shekels that is entirely your right and choice. However the banks don't update their records straightaway is a bit of a strawman, there is the implication there that people living on a tight budget are reliant on the banks record and can't remember anything or write stuff down.
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