The end of cash?

[LDC]

Good to see you clearly distinguish between the valid inclusivity concerns expressed by some on here and the likes of Hicks.

Where I'm less convinced is your belief that it's not an appropriate for political action. I'd say that pressurising the state to protect the excluded from the corporate preference to move to a cashless economy is a perfectly valid position.

It's just going to be impossible to draw any clear space between real concerns about inclusivity and the loons though, and I think it's basically a lost cause to even try to. A bit like having concerns about some aspects of the Covid lockdowns, but then trying to do something about that in the context of all the conspiracy stuff. Or the LTNs and ULEZ stuff as well more currently.

If someone is just interested in isolated issues around concerns like that then go ahead and campaign or lobby on it, there's probably charities that are as well, but it doesn't lend itself to any real collective political action, nor have any revolutionary potential.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

In front of me today at the supermarket was a fit and able looking couple who paid for their shopping in cash £199.10

Probably drug dealers or other ne'er do wells.

 

[PR1Berske]

Probably drug dealers or other ne'er do wells.

That's the spirit.

 

[brogdale]

It's just going to be impossible to draw any clear space between real concerns about inclusivity and the loons though, and I think it's basically a lost cause to even try to. A bit like having concerns about some aspects of the Covid lockdowns, but then trying to do something about that in the context of all the conspiracy stuff. Or the LTNs and ULEZ stuff as well more currently.

If someone is just interested in isolated issues around concerns like that then go ahead and campaign or lobby on it, there's probably charities that are as well, but it doesn't lend itself to any real collective political action, nor have any revolutionary potential.

Yep, but that line leaves me cold, tbh. So...it's not worth speaking up for the excluded in the face of corporate, profit driven change?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

China opens up a whole new can of worms when it comes to digital repression.
Concentration camps have become very established and even tech giants use soft wear to track uyghus.

China: 83 major brands implicated in report on forced labour of ethnic minorities from Xinjiang assigned to factories across provinces; Includes company responses - Business & Human Rights Resource Centre

www.business-humanrights.org

There's recently been a trend of companies leaving China. You know its bad when Apple won't tolerate conditions.

 

[LDC]

Yep, but that line leaves me cold, tbh. So...it's not worth speaking up for the excluded in the face of corporate, profit driven change?

Feel free, depends what you mean by speaking up? Signing a petition, talking about it on the internet, or spend a bunch of time on some campaign doing it with a load of assorted loons? But I think time is best spent in other ways which also defends them with collective political action that has some potential.

 

[liquidindian]

So...it's not worth speaking up for the excluded in the face of corporate, profit driven change?

This isn't profit-driven change, though. It may help the bottom line of not to use cash, whether that's cash-handling or reducing theft, or help banks by providing data, but it's driven mostly by consumer choice. People, in general, want this, and most of those who are protesting in whatever form don't care about anyone who is excluded either.

 

[brogdale]

This isn't profit-driven change, though. It may help the bottom line of not to use cash, whether that's cash-handling or reducing theft, or help banks by providing data, but it's driven mostly by consumer choice. People, in general, want this, and most of those who are protesting in whatever form don't care about anyone who is excluded either.

Yeah, sure...it's all about fincap wanting to offer convenience to the younger/richer in society out of the goodness of their hearts; obviously nothing to do with the % skim they rake on every card-based purchase.

 

[brogdale]

Feel free, depends what you mean by speaking up? Signing a petition, talking about it on the internet, or spend a bunch of time on some campaign doing it with a load of assorted loons? But I think time is best spent in other ways which also defends them with collective political action that has some potential.

tbh, I'm doing nothing more than talking about this here on the internet
That said, I do genuinely think that it's easy to dismiss the real, practical downsides of an increasingly cashless economy for those excluded from banking & digital. I see nothing wrong with 'the left' adding their voice/solidarity to such concerns.

 

[Elohim]

She's still right about cash though, even if she is a Covidiot. That's the problem - we know a cashless society is not inclusive of everybody, and is problematic in the sense of making it easier for the government/banks to control you. But people like this are the loudest voices and make valid concerns easier to dismiss because there are those who assume anyone against cashlessness must also share her anti-vax views.

This is the problem the woman may have some legitimate concerns and also crazy conspiracy beliefs. Just cause someone has crazy conspiracy beliefs does not mean they also hold legitimate concerns.

 

[Elohim]

Yep, but that line leaves me cold, tbh. So...it's not worth speaking up for the excluded in the face of corporate, profit driven change?

That's the way as soon as some thing gets tagged as right wing then it's a lost cause. Of course then the right wing become the voice of the disenfranchised who can't use digital currency.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

'Legitimate concerns' tend to signal a massive shithead as well tbh.

 

[Rob Ray]

Tbh more and more of what the left would like to campaign on is getting grabbed by conspiracy theorists as a talking point (I had some Alex Jones nut telling me the left invented and supports neoliberalism the other day, seeing himself as being in the "anti" camp). We may just have to suck it up that some of our work is not just having to get by in the face of the cobweb left's lego empire-building antics but also regular sideswipes from the conspiraloon masses on a far greater level than was previously the case.

 

[LeytonCatLady]

'Legitimate concerns' tend to signal a massive shithead as well tbh.

No, it just signals "legitimate concerns". The fact that shitheads try to exploit concerns doesn't make them less legit.

 

[Rob Ray]

I do tend to think with those folks that if you feel the need to emphasise it's legitimate ... kind of like when people start off with "this is absolutely true."

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Tbh more and more of what the left would like to campaign on is getting grabbed by conspiracy theorists as a talking point (I had some Alex Jones nut telling me the left invented and supports neoliberalism the other day, seeing himself as being in the "anti" camp). We may just have to suck it up that some of our work is not just having to get by in the face of the cobweb left's lego empire-building antics but also regular sideswipes from the conspiraloon masses on a far greater level than was previously the case.

I've also seen them claim that the Nazis were leftists because they had the word "socialist" in their name. There's always going to be idiots out there.

 

[Rob Ray]

Yeah same. The big difference between now and a decade ago being there's more of them and they're riling each other up.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Yeah same. The big difference between now and a decade ago being there's more of them and they're riling each other up.

I blame the Internet

 

[Elohim]

I blame the Internet

Yes Internet can be very addictive especially with poor social life. Some people's only social interaction is online.

 

[Rob Ray]

I certainly think the internet has shown comprehensively that having constant, relatively unfettered access to the sum of human knowledge sounded good in theory, but didn't take into account that what a lot of people "knew" was complete hogwash, often deliberately so.

 

[hash tag]

More than 10 million people are struggling to live in a cashless society

Fears UK’s cashless society will leave more than just the vulnerable behind

There have long been concerns that older people will suffer as we ditch coins and notes, but other groups, such as tourists, may also be affected

www.theguardian.com

 

[moochedit]

More than 10 million people are struggling to live in a cashless society

Fears UK’s cashless society will leave more than just the vulnerable behind

There have long been concerns that older people will suffer as we ditch coins and notes, but other groups, such as tourists, may also be affected

www.theguardian.com

This must be a london thing. I wouldn't have difficulty spending cash in cov if i wanted to. I don't know any card-only or cash-only shops here.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

More than 10 million people are struggling to live in a cashless society

Fears UK’s cashless society will leave more than just the vulnerable behind

There have long been concerns that older people will suffer as we ditch coins and notes, but other groups, such as tourists, may also be affected

www.theguardian.com

I mean the first part of the article is about someone who went to a foreign country without doing any research. I didn't go to Tunisia and expect to be able to use my phone to pay for everything. I knew I could use my card widely in Turkey so I made sure I had one with no fees. It's not exactly rocket science.

I feel sorry for old people who strugle with tech. I remember an old colleague getting very upset when they turned of the old TV signals. Did I feel for her? Yes. But things move on. These people aren't being excluded like the homeless.

 

[hash tag]

I mean the first part of the article is about someone who went to a foreign country without doing any research. I didn't go to Tunisia and expect to be able to use my phone to pay for everything. I knew I could use my card widely in Turkey so I made sure I had one with no fees. It's not exactly rocket science.

I feel sorry for old people who strugle with tech. I remember an old colleague getting very upset when they turned of the old TV signals. Did I feel for her? Yes. But things move on. These people aren't being excluded like the homeless.

Had they still been alive, my parents would never have coped. My in-laws are struggling to cope and fil is very intelligent.

 

[UnderOpenSky]

Had they still been alive, my parents would never have coped. My in-laws are struggling to cope and fil is very intelligent.

My mum would have complained like hell but got on just fine.

My Dad was a nightmare with tech, but did just about work out how to log on to online banking via a Chromebook and certainly found contactless helpful with his Parkinsons.

 

[liquidindian]

I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist, but to get cash most people have to use a card and insert in a machine, use a PIN etc. There were people who refused to use the ATM 20 years ago when I was a teller, auld biddies still asking for their passbook to be filled in, but they were really rare even back then.

 

[brogdale]

I'm not saying the problem doesn't exist, but to get cash most people have to use a card and insert in a machine, use a PIN etc. There were people who refused to use the ATM 20 years ago when I was a teller, auld biddies still asking for their passbook to be filled in, but they were really rare even back then.

I'm sure that you're a perfectly nice person IRL, but in this convo you do consistently come across as quite uncaring.

 

[editor]

Seen on Facebook

 

[brogdale]

Seen on Facebook

View attachment 387203

skim, skim ,skim

 

[editor]

I used to get paid cash when I DJd venues. Now I have to dedicate fucking ages filling in opaque online forms from third party companies who seem to make it as hard as possible to actually get paid. It took me 6 weeks to finally get paid - and that was after two hours with the manager trying to sort out the form - and I know of one DJ who just gave up and wrote off his fee.

The cashless society benefits big business and fucks over the 'little people.'