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The end of cash?

Which parts are real and which are conspiracy 🤔
I know Maajid has said lots of dodgy things in past but is this fear mongering or could this actually happen.


They wouldn't be replacing fiat money, but the government is investigating whether it can get into crypto, which current enthusiasts (probably rightly) fear would destroy their hopes for universalising stateless cryptocurrency and probably quite a lot of the scene more generally because people tend to be more comfortable buying something backed by the Bank of England than something backed by, well, cryptobros. The stuff about linking it to social credit etc is pure speculation as it stands, and is primarily being brought up because crypto types want to push people into their own ecosystem.
 
I remember when Paypal shut down funding to Wikileaks.
Yeah the government (and many other actors) have been able to monitor, extract money from and sometimes shut down the accounts of individuals or groups for quite some time already. Crypto-pound wouldn't really make all that much difference to that.
 
Yeah the government (and many other actors) have been able to monitor, extract money from and sometimes shut down the accounts of individuals or groups for quite some time already. Crypto-pound wouldn't really make all that much difference to that.
Let's hope not.
 
Yes my point could make protests a thing of the past.

Worse yet, they could effectively cut you out of society entirely if you act up. I've heard of horror stories of people who mistakenly got reported for dead to the government. Some of them took years to get their identities reestablished. They could make you a "non-person." In the 1970s I remember reading books like Shockwave Rider that predicted this.

 
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The thing to remember about State repression is that it really doesn't rely on digital wizardry to fuck you up. It can do basically the same job by sending the boys in blue round with a conveniently absent chest camera. This is what conspiracy theorists don't get – genuinely threatened States have had non-personing (and indeed the suppression of protest, where necessary) down to a fine art since long before the internet came along. The government didn't require access to people's Tesco purchase history to set off devastating injunctions and crackdowns against the green/AR movements in the nineties, nor did it need the crypto-pound to find and hammer rioters in 2011.
 
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Which parts are real and which are conspiracy 🤔
I know Maajid has said lots of dodgy things in past but is this fear mongering or could this actually happen.


He used to be quite decent to listen to but my god in heaven he's become an absolute Fruit n Nut Bar of late. Not just Barking, he's at Barking Riverside, yelling at the open spaces using only adjectives.
 
23 seconds in and there's the first error. The BoE is explicit on its page on this, right at the top, that it is not designed to replace cash.
Then he talks about opening an account with the BoE. From the FAQ: ...you would not be able to open an account with the Bank of England. The way that you would access digital pounds would be through a digital wallet that would be provided by a private company. The reason that we're doing it this way is because we think that private companies are much better placed at providing innovative products and services to the public.
Then it moves on to programmable money, and I think if I'm being kind here there's confusion about programmable money and programmable payments. The latter is just the possibility of making direct debits more complex. If you read the Daily Telegraph article references it's a BoE director saying that restricting how money is spent is possible and therefore has to be part of the discussion around CBDCs. The EU has already said that this won't be part of any of its plans. To leap from this to "they'll make you buy insect burgers" is just silly.
Then I stopped watching because I'd already given it enough time. I just wish this sort of energy went into explaining things properly but I imagine there's way less money in that.
 
The thing to remember about State repression is that it really doesn't rely on digital wizardry to fuck you up. It can do basically the same job by sending the boys in blue round with a conveniently absent chest camera. This is what conspiracy theorists don't get – genuinely threatened States have had non-personing (and indeed the suppression of protest, where necessary) down to a fine art since long before the internet came along. The government didn't require access to people's Tesco purchase history to set off devastating injunctions and crackdowns against the green/AR movements in the nineties, nor did it need the crypto-pound to find and hammer rioters in 2011.

No, it absolutely doesn't rely on digital oppression. During the water protector protests private contractors felt safe in using dogs to bloody people. Meanwhile the Obama administration quietly turned a blind eye.

However, if you look at China, they been using apps to keep people confined that showed signs of protesting. If the Republicans get their way in the US, I can see them using it. Some of this is what Edward Snowdon was warning about.

A Chinese city may have used a Covid app to block protesters, drawing an outcry.

People from across China had set off for the city of Zhengzhou to protest the freezing of their savings. Then they were prevented from moving freely.

Since the pandemic’s early days, China has used mobile apps to identify and isolate people who might be spreading Covid-19. Now, a central Chinese city may have shown a far more troubling use of that data: stopping would-be protesters.

Dozens of people from across China had set off for the city of Zhengzhou days ago to protest the freezing of their savings amid an investigation into several regional banks. But when they arrived in the city, many found that the so-called health codes on their phones had turned from green — meaning good — to red, a designation that would prevent them from moving freely.

Tom Zhang, the owner of a textile business in the eastern province of Zhejiang, said this happened to him when he was on a train headed to Zhengzhou on Sunday, despite coming from a town where there had been no Covid cases. Upon arriving in the city, Mr. Zhang said, he was stopped by the police and told that his red code — usually suggesting an infection or close contact — indicated he posed public health risk. He said the Zhengzhou police had held him in a local library for around 12 hours.

“The red code was definitely used to limit us depositors,” Mr. Zhang said in a phone interview. “It was a complete absurdity.”

Mr. Zhang was part of a group of hundreds of depositors in several rural banks who had planned to lodge a complaint with the Henan Province bank regulator on Monday after having been unable to withdraw their money for months. (Mr. Zhang said his account held about $440,000 in savings.) Several other people from this group also told The New York Times that their health codes had changed en route to Zhengzhou.

Many of the petitioners posted their red health codes on Chinese social media sites, suggesting that the inexplicable change was no coincidence. Their complaints quickly fueled widespread outrage and prompted a slew of questions, even drawing an unusual rebuke from establishment commentators, who asked if the local authorities had abused their power.

Hu Xijin, a former editor of the ruling Communist Party’s Global Times newspaper, warned that the use of the health code for purposes other than epidemic control “damages the authority” of the monitoring system and would chip away at the public’s support for it. His post on Weibo, a Twitter-like social media platform, on Monday became a hashtag that was among the most-searched earlier this week, drawing 280 million views.

“Health code can’t be abused,” China Comment, a monthly magazine managed by the official Xinhua News Agency, wrote in a commentary. The magazine said the Henan authorities had to explain how the codes changed, whose decision it had been to use the codes this way and what procedures had been followed. It also said standards should be strengthened for the use of health codes to guard against their abuse by “willful power.”

A worker with the Zhengzhou government hotline for collecting residents’ complaints told The Times that the hotline had received many complaints about the abnormal red code and that authorities were looking into the claims. The Henan Provincial Health Commission told Chinese media that it was investigating the complaints from the depositors about their red codes.

While he was being held by the police, Mr. Zhang said, employees from the bank regulator told him that the investigation into the banks could take two years. With little option for recourse, Mr. Zhang said, he agreed when police officers from his hometown arrived and offered to escort him out of Henan.

As he was making his way to the airport, his health code suddenly turned green.[ /quote]


I can see governments using this to prevent protests, and still breaking heads if an actual protest still happens. They'll go for this because there's less of a chance for an international outcry over human rights.
 
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No, it absolutely doesn't rely on digital oppression. During the water protector protests private contractors felt safe in using dogs to bloody people. Meanwhile the Obama administration quietly turned a blind eye.

However, if you look at China, they been using apps to keep people confined that showed signs of protesting. If the Republicans get their way in the US, I can see them using it. Some of this is what Edward Snowdon was warning about.




I can see governments using this to prevent protests, and still breaking heads if an actual protest still happens. They'll go for this because there's less of a chance for an international outcry over human rights.
China opens up a whole new can of worms when it comes to digital repression.
Concentration camps have become very established and even tech giants use soft wear to track uyghus.

 
The thing to remember about State repression is that it really doesn't rely on digital wizardry to fuck you up. It can do basically the same job by sending the boys in blue round with a conveniently absent chest camera. This is what conspiracy theorists don't get – genuinely threatened States have had non-personing (and indeed the suppression of protest, where necessary) down to a fine art since long before the internet came along. The government didn't require access to people's Tesco purchase history to set off devastating injunctions and crackdowns against the green/AR movements in the nineties, nor did it need the crypto-pound to find and hammer rioters in 2011.
They don't need technology to oppress us, but it helps.
 
God I wish that was the way when I worked there. Nothing worse than a customer striding confidently up to the till, and staring up at the menu. "Ummmmmm....I'll haaaaaaave......"

Now add to all that umming an aahing the fact that people also have to figure out how to work the machine. The machines are extremely simple, but that doesn't stop the person in front of you having a nervous breakdown and/or a blazing row with their partner about it.

Actual customer service is not nothing. I hate it personally, and would happily get everything from robots, but for many other people it's useful and important to have someone actually there.
 

The Keep it Cash campaign group has started compiling a list of businesses that still take notes and coins, alongside those that do not. Demonstrating in Oxford, Debbie Hicks, a former politics lecturer and pro-cash campaigner, chanted: “Cash is freedom. Cash is about you managing your money independently without the bank interfering so easily. When you use your cards or use your phones to pay, you are handing the banks and the government the power to control your money. You can stop this. You can stop a digital tyranny where your money can be cut off.”
 

The Keep it Cash campaign group has started compiling a list of businesses that still take notes and coins, alongside those that do not. Demonstrating in Oxford, Debbie Hicks, a former politics lecturer and pro-cash campaigner, chanted: “Cash is freedom. Cash is about you managing your money independently without the bank interfering so easily. When you use your cards or use your phones to pay, you are handing the banks and the government the power to control your money. You can stop this. You can stop a digital tyranny where your money can be cut off.”
That's not really something that lends itself to chanting
 
FFS. Horrible woman.
She's still right about cash though, even if she is a Covidiot. That's the problem - we know a cashless society is not inclusive of everybody, and is problematic in the sense of making it easier for the government/banks to control you. But people like this are the loudest voices and make valid concerns easier to dismiss because there are those who assume anyone against cashlessness must also share her anti-vax views.
 

The Keep it Cash campaign group has started compiling a list of businesses that still take notes and coins, alongside those that do not. Demonstrating in Oxford, Debbie Hicks, a former politics lecturer and pro-cash campaigner, chanted: “Cash is freedom. Cash is about you managing your money independently without the bank interfering so easily. When you use your cards or use your phones to pay, you are handing the banks and the government the power to control your money. You can stop this. You can stop a digital tyranny where your money can be cut off.”

So the banks and government don't control money? What are they using? Gold sovereigns?
 
She's still right about cash though, even if she is a Covidiot. That's the problem - we know a cashless society is not inclusive of everybody, and is problematic in the sense of making it easier for the government/banks to control you. But people like this are the loudest voices and make valid concerns easier to dismiss because there are those who assume anyone against cashlessness must also share her anti-vax views.

She's not right at all. Cash isn't freedom, not is it independent of other forms of control. There's some valid concerns about the move to cashless, but she doesn't express any of them. Their fixation on cash over cashless is an absolute classic petit-bourgeois issue, they're not motivated by inclusivity but by personal and financial 'freedom'.

I also think anyone that chooses it as an issue to take action on is politically topsy turvy in terms of importance and likelihood to gain anything.
 
She's not right at all. Cash isn't freedom, not is it independent of other forms of control. There's some valid concerns about the move to cashless, but she doesn't express any of them. Their fixation on cash over cashless is an absolute classic petit-bourgeois issue, they're not motivated by inclusivity but by personal and financial 'freedom'.

I also think anyone that chooses it as an issue to take action on is politically topsy turvy in terms of importance and likelihood to gain anything.

Good to see you clearly distinguish between the valid inclusivity concerns expressed by some on here and the likes of Hicks.

Where I'm less convinced is your belief that it's not an appropriate for political action. I'd say that pressurising the state to protect the excluded from the corporate preference to move to a cashless economy is a perfectly valid position.
 
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