The Brexit process
- Thread starter brogdale
- Start date
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
...suddenly I don't give a shit about Trump & Clinton...
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
And the 48% who voted for?. It's not what you call a massive majority, is it?
It's a pretty big majority.
andysays
Love and solidarity
That's all a referendum (any referendum) can be. You could have attempted to argue that parliament (or even the electorate) have some input into the content and/or result of the negotiations*, but it's ridiculous to argue against taking the first actual step towards exit (ie invoking Art 50) on the basis that it wouldn't be democratic.
The country voted to leave the European Union in a referendum approved by Act of Parliament. If parliament now votes against even starting the process of leaving, it won't be a victory for any sort of democracy, more a demonstration that what purports to be a democracy is closer to an elective dictatorship.
*of course, the EU's own rules don't allow for that, but that's another example of the anti-democratic nature of the EU
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
A 4% difference?. If it was the other way do you think the brexiters would just accept it?.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Close enough, though, so you might reasonably think it could have been different if the vote had been a week earlier or a week later, or if 16-17 year-olds, longtime expats etc had been allowed to vote. It's the luck of the draw as much as the will of people.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes, largely. It would have been a vote of 'no change', so there would have been none of these problems.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
only if you don't know what a majority looks like
bimble
floofy
The legal argument that was used to get this result was that May "unlawfully intended to by-pass parliamentary scrutiny while taking irreversible steps to remove statutory rights granted to UK citizens under the European Communities Act 1972, which made EU law part of UK law" . So the ruling was made purportedly to protect citizens rights? What a tangled web.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
yeh cos that was what the likes of farage said at the time
you're flopping all over the place.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
no, the ruling was apparently consistent with the law. if it has the effect of protecting people's rights it is a happy coincidence.
hot air baboon
Well-Known Member
...they were going to do a mass data-dump of all the extant EU law into British law on D Day + 1 weren't they...
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
this is going to drag on longer than an american election.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
This isn't really true. In the Swiss system, rather specific issues get put to the vote - the establishment of a minimum citizen's wage, for instance, for which the exact level of the proposed wage was presented in the referendum.
gosub
~#
I'm not sure the Progressive wing of Urban would claim me as one of their own.
Well if you accept this then I guess there is no pointing ever putting anything to a vote.
If you put things to a vote then you have to accept that the result isn't always going to coincide with your personal opinion.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
can you give an example of when the result of a vote has coincided with your personal opinion?
people who I've voted for in elections have sometimes got elected. Not that I necessarily agree with 100% of what they stood for, but the election was just for them to get in, and they did get in. I'm not sure if that's what you mean?
not-bono-ever
meh
for fucks sake
Tory MP calls for BBC 1 to mark Brexit with national anthem at the end of each day
"
Conservative MP is calling for BBC 1 to restore the tradition of playing the national anthem at the end of each day’s programmes, in honour of Brexit.
Andrew Rosindell, the MP for Romford, said the BBC should be "unashamedly British" and celebrate the UK's exit from the EU with a clear statement that "Britain is back."
He has tabled an early day motion this morning calling for the anthem to be played before the switch over to BBC News 24.
It is the Tory MP's second attempt to restore the practice in Parliament, since it was scrapped in 1997. "
severed head on a stick front runner right there
Tory MP calls for BBC 1 to mark Brexit with national anthem at the end of each day
"
Conservative MP is calling for BBC 1 to restore the tradition of playing the national anthem at the end of each day’s programmes, in honour of Brexit.
Andrew Rosindell, the MP for Romford, said the BBC should be "unashamedly British" and celebrate the UK's exit from the EU with a clear statement that "Britain is back."
He has tabled an early day motion this morning calling for the anthem to be played before the switch over to BBC News 24.
It is the Tory MP's second attempt to restore the practice in Parliament, since it was scrapped in 1997. "
severed head on a stick front runner right there
Bahnhof Strasse
Met up with Hannah Courtoy a week next Tuesday
Smokeandsteam
Working Class First
I'm not sure about that, but the Hedge Fund Manager and her supporters who bought the case clearly agree.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
so it has almost coincided but not quite
gosub
~#
Think they will get Article 50 through the Commons, the Lords however....
Pickman's model you've lost me
andysays
Love and solidarity
But not, as you claimed, any chance to comment on the detail other than straight yes/no or, even more ridiculously, the consequences of the decision. How is it possible to predict exactly what the consequences of any decision might be, in one year, five years, fifty years?
Again, it's the EU rules themselves which mean that whoever makes the decision to leave, parliament, the whole electorate or some other group/body, Article 50 has to be invoked before any formal negotiations begin, and once it's invoked, there's no provision for uninvoking it, so it's impossible for anyone to know in any detail what they're voting for and Stay/Leave was all the choice could ever be given as.
editor
hiraethified
Add in those who didn't vote and it's anything but an overwhelming mandate for Brexit. The whole referendum was insane.
gosub
~#
Our elected representatives aren't going to ignore the outcome of a plebiscite. Lords aren't there to enact the will of the people.
eta opps.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
True, although, in this particular case, I didn't put anything to a vote.
But the point raised above what about the size of the referendum result and, objectively, it wasn't a thumping victory.
Exactly how egregious it would be to not respect the result is related to the size of the margin of victory, surely?
I agree with the second part... but not the first. It is just the nature of voting that people can choose not to vote.
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