The BNP list: would you have leaked it?
- Thread starter teuchter
- Start date
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Not that I'm precisely sure quite what I would have done, but there is a difference between all of these things you're mentioning; there are value judgements. You can't simply universalise everything. Would I dob in a rapist? Yes. Would I dob in an illegal immigrant? No. These are not contradictory positions, and neither is it to say "yes I am happy to see the BNP's membership list appear on anti-fascists sites but no I would not be happy to see people's details appear on Redwatch".
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
yeah, who is the real nazi eh?
beesonthewhatnow
going deaf for a living
teuchter
je suis teuchter
But fundamentally, you feel that your personal value judgements should hold sway more than the value judgement of, say, a jury, or democratic electorate?
And yet the value judgement of someone else shouldn't?
And you're confident that everyone on that list deserves whatever comes to them, according to your value judgement?
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I don't have any great issue with saying that I mostly rate my personal value judgements over the value judgements of other people. Practically speaking of course one can't really have a system that works on that basis. But there is nothing inconsistent at heart with saying "in this case, doing X is right, in that case, doing X is wrong".
I seem to have missed the bit where I said anything about this specific case.
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
If I was less lazy I would cross-reference the people who voted 'no' or 'killing is never right' on this thread: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=13596 with those people who are saying (I'm guessing, I haven't actually read the thread) that BNP members deserve all that is coming to them, or who are comfortable with people who would engage in violence against BNP members getting hold of the information leaked.
I'd be interested in knowing what argument anyone who voted that the state should not sentence a murderer to death but would be happy to leak information knowing that someone (possibly even the wrong someone) could be harmed or killed as a result of their action, would put forward to explain this apparent ethical inconsistency.
But I am lazy.
I'd be interested in knowing what argument anyone who voted that the state should not sentence a murderer to death but would be happy to leak information knowing that someone (possibly even the wrong someone) could be harmed or killed as a result of their action, would put forward to explain this apparent ethical inconsistency.
But I am lazy.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Fair enough, you didn't commit either way on this case.
Blagsta
Minimum cage, maximum cage
good point
cantsin
Well-Known Member
save it for esther rantzen or something you plum
teuchter
je suis teuchter
Well, at first glance there seems to be quite a substantial overlap of "no to capital punishment" voters and "yay to mob retribution" voters.
teuchter
je suis teuchter
So, you think that nothing bad will happen to anyone on that list, or do you think it's OK and without doubt fully deserved if it does?
quimcunx
imprimeo, lamino, distribuo
Really? Well who'da thunk it?
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
I've decided. No, I wouldn't have done it. Not so much out of consideration for the members, as for their families. No way should the kids of these people get even more punishment for having arseholes as parents. I'm pretty much 100% certain that will happen; rumours will spread, other kids at school will find out, and the kids will suffer.
If I saw the names of any supposedly non-BNP politicians on there, I'd have no such qualms, of course.
If I saw the names of any supposedly non-BNP politicians on there, I'd have no such qualms, of course.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
Jesus. What sick fuck would post that online?
Apparently some animals are more equal than others.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
First they came for the fascists...
cantsin
Well-Known Member
edit
cantsin
Well-Known Member
teuchter
je suis teuchter
A lot of effort to go to, to make an entirely meaningless post.
It would be more interesting to hear why it is you react in such a way to my comment.
cantsin
Well-Known Member
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
your assumptions are way off, and your questions do not deserve the same answers, so it is impossible to vote in your poll.
I for one have no 'glee', tho I do have an interest (they're not the same thing you know), and it does amuse me to know the BNP are incompetent fools.
Anyone leaking such a list must know they may have to face the 'consequences' - whether they be legal ones or not - and doing so thinking there would be no consequences would be an act of total stupidity.
Does everyone deserve whatever may come there way? Utterly meaningless nonsense of a sentence. Not worth commenting further upon.
I might well have leaked it, but if I did, I wouldn't have put in on the bleedin' internet.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
I keep trying to articulate my ideas on this, but I can't get past the thought that some people are willing to treat every BNP member as if they were a member of the Gestapo, and then apply the same to those BNP members' families.
It's interesting that the society I live in is unlikely to accept such overt racism, to the extent that we can all agree about how damaging this published list will be to the people on it. That's a good sign.
But a bad sign is that there's fairly widespread agreement that, for a few of these of these BNP members at least, the repercussions will be physical. Even some of those who think the names should have been published agree on this - 'those BNP bastards deserve it.'
And so do their families, apparently. Unless anyone somehow thinks that, if somone's outed as a member of the BNP, their kids are going to be miraculously unaffected by it.
The way that some people either disregard this or possibly just don't give a shit, is a very, very bad sign.
It's interesting that the society I live in is unlikely to accept such overt racism, to the extent that we can all agree about how damaging this published list will be to the people on it. That's a good sign.
But a bad sign is that there's fairly widespread agreement that, for a few of these of these BNP members at least, the repercussions will be physical. Even some of those who think the names should have been published agree on this - 'those BNP bastards deserve it.'
And so do their families, apparently. Unless anyone somehow thinks that, if somone's outed as a member of the BNP, their kids are going to be miraculously unaffected by it.
The way that some people either disregard this or possibly just don't give a shit, is a very, very bad sign.
scifisam
feck! arse! girls! drink!
BTW, I did start out unsure as to what I would have done. I'm still curious about who's on the list - but I haven't looked it up. I'm sure if any powerful people are on there, it'll end up being in the news. I can understand wanting to tell everybody who those BNP members are, but it's pretty childish to still think that after about 30 seconds consideration, really.
Surely somebody's pointed this out somewhere else, but some (many?) BNP members and voters are driven by a sense of persecution and martrydom:
Those immigrants taking all our jobs, getting enormous council houses for free when I'm living in a tiny flat. The DSS never chase them, but they never let up on the ordinary Englishman! Those blacks and Asians, taking over our schools - our kids are practically in a minority now. They don't even learn about proper British history. Did you know Christmas has been banned? We're not even allowed our own native festivals! There was a black bloke at my brother's mate's work, and he got a promotion that everyone knew my brother's mate should get, but we all know why, don't we? But if we complain, we're racist.'
Why on Earth would anyone want to give them a real reason to feel persecuted? The waverers will be even more likely to believe the rest of the paranoia.
Surely somebody's pointed this out somewhere else, but some (many?) BNP members and voters are driven by a sense of persecution and martrydom:
Those immigrants taking all our jobs, getting enormous council houses for free when I'm living in a tiny flat. The DSS never chase them, but they never let up on the ordinary Englishman! Those blacks and Asians, taking over our schools - our kids are practically in a minority now. They don't even learn about proper British history. Did you know Christmas has been banned? We're not even allowed our own native festivals! There was a black bloke at my brother's mate's work, and he got a promotion that everyone knew my brother's mate should get, but we all know why, don't we? But if we complain, we're racist.'
Why on Earth would anyone want to give them a real reason to feel persecuted? The waverers will be even more likely to believe the rest of the paranoia.
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