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The BNP list: would you have leaked it?

Assuming no consequences for you, woudl you have leaked it?

  • Total voters
    153
Oh, and the Redwatch website too, presumably everyone's perfectly comfortable about that as well.
 
teuchter said:
Oh, and the Redwatch website too, presumably everyone's perfectly comfortable about that as well.
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Not that I'm precisely sure quite what I would have done, but there is a difference between all of these things you're mentioning; there are value judgements. You can't simply universalise everything. Would I dob in a rapist? Yes. Would I dob in an illegal immigrant? No. These are not contradictory positions, and neither is it to say "yes I am happy to see the BNP's membership list appear on anti-fascists sites but no I would not be happy to see people's details appear on Redwatch".
 
That's a pathetic comparison.

So Leftists can do house visits, but BNP members can't. Did I get that right? Because ultimately that is exactly the kind of harassment, these sort of lists/sites etc lead to....
 
Darios said:
That's a pathetic comparison.

So Leftists can do house visits, but BNP members can't. Did I get that right? Because ultimately that is exactly the kind of harassment, these sort of lists/sites etc lead to....
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yeah, who is the real nazi eh?
 
FridgeMagnet said:
Not that I'm precisely sure quite what I would have done, but there is a difference between all of these things you're mentioning; there are value judgements. You can't simply universalise everything. Would I dob in a rapist? Yes. Would I dob in an illegal immigrant? No. These are not contradictory positions, and neither is it to say "yes I am happy to see the BNP's membership list appear on anti-fascists sites but no I would not be happy to see people's details appear on Redwatch".
Click to expand...

But fundamentally, you feel that your personal value judgements should hold sway more than the value judgement of, say, a jury, or democratic electorate?

And yet the value judgement of someone else shouldn't?

And you're confident that everyone on that list deserves whatever comes to them, according to your value judgement?
 
teuchter said:
But fundamentally, you feel that your personal value judgements should hold sway more than the value judgement of, say, a jury, or democratic electorate?
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I don't have any great issue with saying that I mostly rate my personal value judgements over the value judgements of other people. Practically speaking of course one can't really have a system that works on that basis. But there is nothing inconsistent at heart with saying "in this case, doing X is right, in that case, doing X is wrong".
teuchter said:
And you're confident that everyone on that list deserves whatever comes to them, according to your value judgement?
Click to expand...
I seem to have missed the bit where I said anything about this specific case.
 
If I was less lazy I would cross-reference the people who voted 'no' or 'killing is never right' on this thread: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=13596 with those people who are saying (I'm guessing, I haven't actually read the thread) that BNP members deserve all that is coming to them, or who are comfortable with people who would engage in violence against BNP members getting hold of the information leaked.

I'd be interested in knowing what argument anyone who voted that the state should not sentence a murderer to death but would be happy to leak information knowing that someone (possibly even the wrong someone) could be harmed or killed as a result of their action, would put forward to explain this apparent ethical inconsistency.

But I am lazy.
 
TomPaine said:
Come on though, there are probably kids on there who had nowt to do with joining up who will now get shit of people. If somebody does do something stupid I feel bad if I had leaked the list and a kid got caught, wouldn't you?
There are probably better ways of doing things i.e. email the company they work for and send them the list.

TomPaine
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save it for esther rantzen or something you plum
 
quimcunx said:
If I was less lazy I would cross-reference the people who voted 'no' or 'killing is never right' on this thread: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/poll.php?do=showresults&pollid=13596 with those people who are saying (I'm guessing, I haven't actually read the thread) that BNP members deserve all that is coming to them, or who are comfortable with people who would engage in violence against BNP members getting hold of the information leaked.
Click to expand...

Well, at first glance there seems to be quite a substantial overlap of "no to capital punishment" voters and "yay to mob retribution" voters.
 
So, you think that nothing bad will happen to anyone on that list, or do you think it's OK and without doubt fully deserved if it does?
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Right, especially as that list appears to have kids who are listed under family members, to be honest I think that wasn't a good idea to put that bit up.

TomPaine
 
I've decided. No, I wouldn't have done it. Not so much out of consideration for the members, as for their families. No way should the kids of these people get even more punishment for having arseholes as parents. I'm pretty much 100% certain that will happen; rumours will spread, other kids at school will find out, and the kids will suffer.

If I saw the names of any supposedly non-BNP politicians on there, I'd have no such qualms, of course.
 
Well apart from that blog somebody has gone and registered a domain name now...
I would imagine that is legal hot water.

TomPaine
 
teuchter said:
A lot of effort to go to, to make an entirely meaningless post.

It would be more interesting to hear why it is you react in such a way to my comment.
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not for me it wouldn't pal, you liberal provocateurs bore me shitless tbh
 
teuchter said:
Predictably enough the news of the leaking of the BNP members' details list seems mainly to have been received with glee here.

I would be interested to know how many people would have leaked the details themselves, if they were to find themselves in possession of it.

Assuming you could be totally confident that it could not be traced back to you, would you have done it?

Do you believe that everyone on that list deserves whatever may come their way as a result of this?
Click to expand...

your assumptions are way off, and your questions do not deserve the same answers, so it is impossible to vote in your poll.

I for one have no 'glee', tho I do have an interest (they're not the same thing you know), and it does amuse me to know the BNP are incompetent fools.

Anyone leaking such a list must know they may have to face the 'consequences' - whether they be legal ones or not - and doing so thinking there would be no consequences would be an act of total stupidity.

Does everyone deserve whatever may come there way? Utterly meaningless nonsense of a sentence. Not worth commenting further upon.

I might well have leaked it, but if I did, I wouldn't have put in on the bleedin' internet.
 
I keep trying to articulate my ideas on this, but I can't get past the thought that some people are willing to treat every BNP member as if they were a member of the Gestapo, and then apply the same to those BNP members' families.

It's interesting that the society I live in is unlikely to accept such overt racism, to the extent that we can all agree about how damaging this published list will be to the people on it. That's a good sign.

But a bad sign is that there's fairly widespread agreement that, for a few of these of these BNP members at least, the repercussions will be physical. Even some of those who think the names should have been published agree on this - 'those BNP bastards deserve it.'

And so do their families, apparently. Unless anyone somehow thinks that, if somone's outed as a member of the BNP, their kids are going to be miraculously unaffected by it.

The way that some people either disregard this or possibly just don't give a shit, is a very, very bad sign.
 
BTW, I did start out unsure as to what I would have done. I'm still curious about who's on the list - but I haven't looked it up. I'm sure if any powerful people are on there, it'll end up being in the news. I can understand wanting to tell everybody who those BNP members are, but it's pretty childish to still think that after about 30 seconds consideration, really.

Surely somebody's pointed this out somewhere else, but some (many?) BNP members and voters are driven by a sense of persecution and martrydom:

Those immigrants taking all our jobs, getting enormous council houses for free when I'm living in a tiny flat. The DSS never chase them, but they never let up on the ordinary Englishman! Those blacks and Asians, taking over our schools - our kids are practically in a minority now. They don't even learn about proper British history. Did you know Christmas has been banned? We're not even allowed our own native festivals! There was a black bloke at my brother's mate's work, and he got a promotion that everyone knew my brother's mate should get, but we all know why, don't we? But if we complain, we're racist.'

Why on Earth would anyone want to give them a real reason to feel persecuted? The waverers will be even more likely to believe the rest of the paranoia.
 
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