The Alt-Left
- Thread starter chilango
- Start date
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
I wondered about this myself, thanks for asking. Maybe it's ultra-super-secret and they haven't made their move yet, maybe it revolves mostly around the secret forum, reddit-invite-only, deep down in the underground preparing the foundations for Day 0, accumulating piles of think-bullet ammunition for the coming army of 6th Wave shock-troops sort of thing. Or maybe it's simply what's called for in these crazy mixed-up times of ours, maybe that's what the Left Left has secretly been doing all this time, while the Pet Left were shilling for Killary and the EU.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
That sounds likely actually, the way the PLP diss Momentum and Corbyn for example certainly seems Alternative to the Labour establishment, maybe the US version is what Bernie and BLM is about. Perhaps it's still being refined and developed as a thing, come back 2017. Now that Trumps will ascend to the hegemonic throne... maybe the right sort of President (standard issue white male capitalist swine) was the missing dingle required to make it work (must run on diesel, not petrol if that makes sense).
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
He went too far and has now been quietly shelved. Wouldn't be surprised if he'd been gently encouraged to revisit old habits and chill.
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flypanam
Sausage to fortune
True but their podcast would be Chapo Trap House, which I listen to and think quite funny.
Here's a review Chapo Trap House are the Vulgar, Brilliant Demigods of the New Progressive Left
Here's a review Chapo Trap House are the Vulgar, Brilliant Demigods of the New Progressive Left
Tom A
Goat among sheep
Isn't that what the left mostly is these days? I would imagine an "alt-left" would go beyond and be above that, putting class struggle over identity politics without using "class above all else" to shut down any debate over racism/sexism/etc. A left that didn't think accusing people of racism is enough to dissuade them from voting Trump/UKIP/Le Pen/et al, but actively sought ways to persuade those with racist tendencies to not be racist. A left that was able to inform the working class that the alt-right and far-right are bad news for the working class as a class as well as the well-documented ways they are bad news for various oppressed demographics. Finally, above all else, a left that rejected the loopy elements of identity politics (as commonly found in academia, particularly in the US but an issue in the UK as well, especially with the NUS) and injected some much needed rationality into the debate.
Lurdan
old wave
nuffsaid
But this goes up to 11
There was a good discussion on this on the R4 Today programme, last week I think, and they had a LibDem, a Labour candidate and Caroline Lucas. Quite simply, the reason why there's no such thing is that the discussion quickly descended into all 3 arguing with each other (particularly the Labour candidate and Lucas) about policies etc. The interviewer was quick to explain maybe this is why the left is split, they can't unite, whereas the Right has just got on with it.
Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
Because they ARE the left, for the Today Programme.
Hence the need for an "alt-left".
nuffsaid
But this goes up to 11
Well yes this was the BBC's version of the Left - I hasten to add.
Having said that, compared to the Alt-Right, that's pretty Left.
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
Time to lay claim to it then, if the Alt Right are the poison the Alt Left should be the antidote.
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
Bit too Third Positionist sounding for me
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
I could google it but would preffer in your words what Third Position is, iirc it's either some sort of fascist strain or something to do with Blairism.
return of caleb
Member
Seems like there are already people self-describing as the 'alt-left' in the sense of being the 'left-wing of the alt-right' -- from what I've seen, social democratic on economic matters, very hostile when it comes to identity politics, feminism, etc., occasionally antisemitic.
zippyRN
Orange, Fuzzy, and allowed to possess Cat As
quite possibly as the Alt right seems to be people in denial about their fascist values who think they are just 'better' versions of the mainstream loonie right / 'Big L ' libertarains , consequently the alt-left would be people with , but in denial of their trot viewpoints , in denail of their authoritarian and oppressive stances
J Ed
Follow Back Pro Expropriation
The fascism thing rather than Giddens' Third Way BS
camouflage
gaslit at scale.
That seems unfair, surely a more local/ non-globalist form of socialism is reasonable, a sort of community-focused nation based form of socialism more accessible to the culture, a sort of national form of socialism if you will.
ska invita
back on the other side
what makes the alt-right "alt" (as opposed to just Right)? that is the question...
Tom A
Goat among sheep
They purport to challenge the neoliberal consensus that has defined the right for the past four decades, and also exploit how today's globalised society has not benefited those who have lost out to deindustrialisation and the outsourcing of work overseas. So in a sense they are an alternative to the neoliberal right which is seen to have abandoned its voters.
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Fozzie Bear
Well-Known Member
+ memes
ska invita
back on the other side
Is that an essential belief or hot air though? What does that really mean in terms of policy difference to the rest of the right? Real isolationism? Just what are they really rejecting and to what extent from neoliberalism? And are we saying the left should do the same?
My impression of the alt-right is not that its necessarily any much different from the rest of the right in terms of policy, rather its just more happy to talk directly in a more offensive, divisive, reactionary, conspiratorial way, which seems to excite many arseholes out there. The idea of an alt-left to me is to do the same. I can picture how that would look.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Note we're talking about the alt-right rather than any possible alt-left...
Anyway, just quickly on that the alt-right is not simply the right, there is a real split with the alt-right - the serious ones anyway - angry at the way the neo-liberal right ditched old school conservatives and conservatism and the tradition fracturing results this brought.
Anyway, just quickly on that the alt-right is not simply the right, there is a real split with the alt-right - the serious ones anyway - angry at the way the neo-liberal right ditched old school conservatives and conservatism and the tradition fracturing results this brought.
ska invita
back on the other side
theres definitely a return to imagined christian values / the hetro nuclear family at core ...you could have an alt-left that did that too i guess if you really wanted
There is some good stuff on the thread about them. The Internet cultural melure , confluence of MRA shit, contradictory elements anarcho-capitalistand protectionist economics. Contrary sociopathic trolls and actual fascists.
Tom A
Goat among sheep
Or you could have an alt-left that went back to its own perceived traditions, focusing on class struggle and the furthering of the interests of the proletariat, but presenting themselves as something that would appeal to a 21st century crowd rather than a early 20th century one.
ska invita
back on the other side
im jsut curious what bit of that people might want to replicate for an alt-left
also how much of what They say is talk and what the actual policies are
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