The 'abolition of Parliament bill': New Labour's madness - the law-is-an-assylum

[Fullyplumped]

Matthew.

You have a good point, which is that the bill on the face of it would give too much power to Ministers to change legislation without recourse to Parliament. I think it would be useful if you were to go to your MP's next local surgery, make your point in a clear and concise manner, and ask him or her what he or she thinks. The probability is that your MP will have similar concerns. Either way, you and your MP will have had the chance to discuss the matter. Most MPs' surgeries are on Fridays and Saturdays - why not pop along, and let us know what happened.

 

[fela fan]

If we're all asleep, that's how.

SOLIDARITY IN THE UK.

Not all asleep mate, but too many. I have no confidence that blair will be jailed let alone impeached, let alone taken from his job before the next election.

I've never known the british public so supine.

 

[Azrael23]

We`re all as bad, none of us are perfect and becoming angry at others doesn`t help, trust me i`ve tried it!

People are made this way, they have little choice.

We all go through the "education" system, We all get fed 2nd hand tripe from TV.

Granted its not hard to pick up a book but these days people are more concerned with instant gratification from material goods, drugs and sex.

So really

Nothing much has changed and thats really where the problem lies. The emerging totalitarian state is a wake up call we`ve needed for centuries.

 

[fela fan]

I'm not boasting. I learnt nothing at uni you couldn't learn from 3 years in the university of life. We all know what's really going on, and we all know OUR path in blocking it.

Good luck. I'm nobody much, but I'm with you. And I don't give a damn whether you're SWP, IWCA, Respect, Socialist Wanker, Green, Lib Dem, Tory, UKIP or whatever else. If you hate tyranny, I'm marching arm-in-arm with you, brother and sister.

Matthew, you're a welcome addition round here. I've been complaining about all of this dictatorial madness and the unconsciousness of the british public for ages now, but coz i no longer live in my country i'm not allowed to say any of this, or be critical.

I hope you can wake a few up, because most of them are in a deep slumber.

 

[fela fan]

My words are irrelevant. It is the wording of each and every one of these laws that transfers urgency. Inside each of the words there exists the theft of another liberty in the name of an unwinnable war. There is no 'war on terror'. Terrorism is one side of a coin. These laws are written for long long wars. They contain no reasoned argument, just the irrationalism of 'us versus them' thinking. There is not effective opposition within Parliament. What can we do about it?

Unfortunately mate, most people in britian are more interested in the messenger than the message. If the message is conveyed in the wrong tone, the wrong emotions, then it is lost and the messenger is disparaged.

That's just the way it is. Watch politics, watch debating, have a look at urban, listen to radio programmes...

 

[fela fan]

Nothing much has changed and thats really where the problem lies. The emerging totalitarian state is a wake up call we`ve needed for centuries.

Absolutely right, and it's why blair and bush are able to go down this path.

Coz we've granted them permission!!

 

[Jonti]

This is a spiritual conflict as well as a political, economic, physical one.

Join the Rebel Alliance.

Yes, it is a spiritual conflict -- and the others can be argued to flow, at least in part, from people's understanding of their being-in-the-world, what philosophers have long called the mystery of existance. Religions and spirituality are myths that give some answers. Unfortunately, those myths do not, *cannot* give rise to material understanding. That is obtained by the methods of science -- rational discussion based on empirical evidence.

The rational objection to naive religion is simple. No soul can be detected by any material means. How then can souls be actors? And if souls are not responsible for their actions, then what's the point of awareness? The trouble is, there is, as yet, no scientific Theory of Consciousness to replace the religious myths whose literal truth is incompatible with the world as we find it.

But the greater trouble, of course, is the rejection of reason by political leaders. For them, the certainties of Faith hold a greater attraction than the rigours of reason. You can't prove WMD don't exist was the cry. Indeed so; no more can one prove there is no teapot orbiting Mars, or that there is no Santa Claus or Tooth Fairy. For it is sufficent answer to assertions without proof, to deny them without giving a reason.

That's a principle of rational discourse, of course. For one, the system of justice could not function without it; nor any practical art. Yet it was thrown to the winds in the moral panic about WMD. I remember quoting this very point to a Beltway sociologist in the run up to the unnecessary attack and invasion. Not in this case, was his reply. In this case, things were so frightening, we had to abandon the rules of reason! In this case, as Chummy Rummy remarked, "absense of evidence is not evidence of absense". Wrong, of course, unless you have a credible argument for how there may be a concealed presence. Dr Kelly and other men and women of reason had satisfied themselves that no such arguments had been made. That should have satisfied their, uhh, political masters.

But it didn't. Instead, we had unreasonable behavior in the face of the evidence, leading to an unnecessary war, invasion and occupation. And it's not going very well either. So, impeach. It will encourage our American friends enormously, as they too cope with the social crisis caused by the political masters' disavowal of reason.

 

[fela fan]

Yes, it looks like it from the above. The Guardian article on it says there are 'safeguards' built in to stop such things happening but also points out that such safeguards often aren't worth much.

If this comes anywhere near going through Parliament I would seriously find it difficult to argue for peaceful demonstration...

Maybe it won't, but the very fact that it is being attempted really should sound alarm bells. And not to political observes amongst the public, but mainly to those asleep.

Those in power will take whatever they can, and give as little as they need to. And it all depends on the people. The fact that those in power are trying this on, on the back of all their other freedom-busting ideas and new laws and bills, demonstrates something has gone wrong with the public as a whole.

You can't blame those in power, you have to blame those who give them permission to exploit. Exploiting comes naturally to the position they hold, it is up to the fourth estate and to the people to keep them in check.

 

[fela fan]

This must not go through Parliament. NO PASARAN. If it does, as a non-violent politician I would leave the country immediately and continue to resist from abroad.

That's what happens in third world and developing countries. Exile!! From dictatorships!!

Incidentally, history shows that those who have too much power bring themselves down by overreaching, by becoming just that bit too greedy. Maybe this is that moment for blair and his disgusting cronies.

 

[shagnasty]

like mussolinii where is a lampost when you need one.does this come as a surprise to anyone

 

[Brixton Hatter]

this was discussed for about 10 mins on the Today programme on radio 4 this morning. Ken Clarke of all people was complaining about how this would usurp parliament...then a Cabinet Office minister (i think) was wheeled on to talk about all the horrible things that would happen if we don't pass this law.

I'll see if I can get a transcript

 

[Brixton Hatter]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/ - it's the item at 7.55am

 

[fela fan]

then a Cabinet Office minister (i think) was wheeled on to talk about all the horrible things that would happen if we don't pass this law.

I'll see if I can get a transcript

Would that be the bogeyman coming out of the forest to gobble us all up for breakfast?

I think a transcript would be great if you can find it!

 

[Haller]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/today/listenagain/ - it's the item at 7.55am

Thanks for putting that link up. The government's argument appears to be that we need to make Britain a competitive economy and this is the easiest way to get rid of unnecessary regulation.

I think the warnings on this thread are much more to the point.

If this legislation is enacted, how long will it be before the threat of terrorism is used to justify using the new powers for reasons entirely separate from those currently being espoused?

Or possibly it won't be terrorism first. Perhaps one of the other great tabloid scares that New Labour has bought into: paedophiles, drug dealers, dissident clerics.

I find it genuinely frightening. Perhaps it's my own ignorance, but I can't think of a parallel in peacetime legislation in this country. This is a direct assault on parliamentary democracy. (Which is hardly impressive, but it's better than direct rule by the Prime Minister.)

And it's characteristic of the trivial nature of what passes for comment at the moment that the Today programme should waste part of its interview this morning on asking about Prince Fucking Charles.

 

[Haller]

Whereas, unless someone comes up with a damn good slogan that will motivate a bunch of Blair loyalist identikit NuLabor MPs to defy their Leader, this one will sail through the oh-so-democratic UK parliament.

Defend Democracy!

 

[goneforlunch]

Laptop
I stand by everything I said. But this thread is not the right one to go into the state of the EU, and so I won't answer the points you made here.

 

[In Bloom]

I'm just repeating your words, as I think it's important that everyone knows what they're dealing with.

Yes, yes, everybody knows that Azreal23 is away with the lizards. Would you like to answer the more substantative points made by others now instead of trying to turn this thread into a flame fest?

 

[In Bloom]

The thing with this is that all it does is streamlines the processes we have now. MPs vote the way they are told to vote anyway, all this means is that the ammendments that Labour tend to be defeated on (28 days instead of 90, less information for now on ID database, etc.) can be eliminated. Not so much a crash into a totallitarian dystopia as accelerating what's already goin on.

 

[In Bloom]

Thanks for putting that link up. The government's argument appears to be that we need to make Britain a competitive economy and this is the easiest way to get rid of unnecessary regulation.

This is deeply worrying, "making Britain a competitive economy," in other words, more casualisation, more privatisation, more PFIs, more stock transfers. Shit

 

[nino_savatte]

I'm just repeating your words, as I think it's important that everyone knows what they're dealing with.

Who died and made you mod? You self-righteous hypocritical twat.

 

[nino_savatte]

This is deeply worrying, "making Britain a competitive economy," in other words, more casualisation, more privatisation, more PFIs, more stock transfers. Shit

Exactly, every single social change that took place after the war is, or is in the process of being rolled back.

 

[Haller]

Exactly, every single social change that took place after the war is, or is in the process of being rolled back.

Or 'red tape', as New Labour like to call it.

 

[Haller]

Entirely by coincidence, I'm reading at the moment the 1970 novel 'A State of Denmark' by Robin Cook, about a Labour Party leader named Jobling who rebrands his party New Pace and enacts a totalitarian take-over of Britain by stealth. Distressingly prescient, it is:

'The working class went over before Jobling almost without a cry. It is said they didn’t know what Jobling was till it was too late. Why didn’t their leaders warn them instead of sitting on their fat arses, drawing their big pay, going to dinner parties in Westminster or riding around in government cars? What would Keir Hardy and Lansbury have said?'

 

[nino_savatte]

Or 'red tape', as New Labour like to call it.

Quite...and of course, the sweeping away of any post-war social policies is referred to as "reform".

 

[TAE]

Just wanted to highlight this little gem from The Times' article:

The Bill, bizarrely, even applies to itself, so that ministers could propose orders to remove the limitations about two-year sentences and taxation.

If this goes through, I'm leaving.

 

[bluestreak]

this is fucking worrying actually. what can we do?

 

[Brixton Hatter]

this is fucking worrying actually. what can we do?

tell as many people as possible, post it on the net, email it to your mates, write to your MP (they are duty bound to write to the relevant Govt Minister who must reply in 15 days) etc etc....if that doesn't work, we might as well sell the Houses of Parliament for luxury flats since we won't be needing it anymore.

 

[MatthewCuffe]

With everyone posting on here - total total solidarity. Thanks for the Today programme link, Brixton Hatter.

This is very, very dark and the problem of course is that so many people in the UK are asleep. Live 8 and Make Poverty History have not helped. They milked people's altruistic impulses for carnivals of ego and sent more people napping than before. Mr.Geldof's done well out of it - nice job at Tory HQ. Nobody much else has.

The disease is, as Fela Fan points out, the obsession with TV and celebrity. People will only trust your message if they see you as a valid messenger. To be valid you need not be decent, wise, kind, or intelligent. You need only be famous.

This is the rotten field out of which New Labour has grown.

That era is over. This is like the moment when the Sex Pistols first appeared and blew the overblown prog-rockers off the stages.

The battle is twofold and it is time to unite in order to:

1) Fight the cult of personality in all the fields it has grown in - like rotten, cankerous weeds. Substance must overpower hype in 2006. This campaign is unfocused in the sense that it operates everywhere, in every action, gesture, thought and movement.

2) Fight President Blair and New Labour. This is focused. Stop all bickering and squabbling and target the criminal in Number Ten and his brigades of clones and drones. Get him to the High Court by any non-violent means necessary.

Victory is assured. Fela Fan is totally right. Hubris is always cut down by the fates. President Blair has been a totalitarian from 1997 on - but it is in 2006 that the poison is becoming fully VISIBLE. In our surface-obsessed culture and our SOCIETY OF THE SPECTACLE it will require spectacles of uglier and uglier symptoms before the people wake up and remember they are the doctors, the nurses, the paramedics, and the cleaners who empty out the New Labour clinical waste.

We're marching together.

DIG IN FOR VICTORY!

 

[gentlegreen]

That era is over. This is like the moment when the Sex Pistols first appeared and blew the overblown prog-rockers off the stages.

Aw, I didn't get a proper go at the summer of love
I say let's have a good old-fashioned House revival

 

[MatthewCuffe]

Cool. Or, rather, HOT. Let's have the Great Audio Fire of 2006, and have it LARGE.

If you've got a blog, a site, or anything else online, PM me and I'll stick it on mine and spread it down the wires. Light the torches. Let's burn up the brand of New Liability! Bit of honesty and decency and public service wouldn't go amiss.

Don't forget that an MP gets a basic salary of £55118. Some of these Blurite drones who want to pass Enabling Laws and whack us on to ID cards don't deserve the minimum.

http://blairwitch.typepad.com
http://www.myspace.com/blairwitchimpeachment