tommers
It was... Rebekah Vardy's account
That's dismantling of Wagner and prigozhin going into exile. Isn't it?
The 2023 Russian Coup.
- Thread starter tim
- Start date
That's dismantling of Wagner and prigozhin going into exile. Isn't it?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's also quite possible that he does feel some affinity with his men. He's an ex-con himself of course. His anger at the way they've been let down is quite probably genuine. But he also no doubt overestimated himself and his own importance. He's scum in charge of scum. Expendable, just like his men.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
It's what they say about a stopped cock, innit?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yeah, I reckon you could spin that as decisive. Humane, even. Look, I'm not a monster.
For me the interesting question here isn't the fate of Prigozhin but how much damage has been done to Putin's power base. Still too early to say.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
Could also be the opposite. His aim was to make a big performance snd kick up a fuss and it went too well and he bottled it before the shit really hit the fun.
Whatever the truth, (which is probably not at all simple) at the moment it looks like both him and Putin have lost to an extent, but neither as bad as they could have.
teqniq
DisMembered
Yes, pretty much. But for Prigozhin to just go into exile is kinda unheard of. Maybe he will fall out of a window later.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
At that point, he had a bargaining position. He had leverage. The coup wasn't put down. It was called off. And of course Putin can deal with him later. Everyone will know that.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
A clue lies in my posts about what many Russians' reaction seemed to be to Yeltsin's 1993 effective coup, and what happened afterwards (the erosion of western influence over the Russian population, despite the apparent victory of west-favoured Yeltsin.) Whatever the purported cause, no mass uprisings in a post-Soviet Russia which quickly became a deeply cynical (or healthily sceptical?) society.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
After every intoxication, there is always a hangover
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Maybe, but never have so many hard-ons wilted so quickly.
ska invita
back on the other side
yeah revenge is a dish best served cold
this way the complaints of They Dont Care About Us dont hit home as hard
Irregular units were being regularised anyway, so this helps speed up that process.
not picking a fight with the convoys fits into this also (suggests kremlin knew early on the coup had flopped too?)
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
While I agree largely with your assessment of today, the war in Ukraine is drawing out and escalating in a horrifying way. I wouldn't characterise people looking at today's events in an overly hopeful way as getting 'hard-ons'.
And none of us had special knowledge about what was happening today. We were watching from afar not knowing what the fuck would happen next, you included.
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I expected it to be dramp squib, and frankly it got a lot more dramatic than I expected when I fist heard the new.
But to say it is half arsed or badly organised is to complete miss the point that events like this are a response to a developing situation not something planned meticulously with the date of operation doomhammer or whatever planned in advance.
I mean it is nor even clear to what extent it was a coup attempt! Coups don't normally consist of a peower bases in another country for one thing.
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RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Quite true. Unlike some on here, I claim no inside knowledge into these events.
Having said that, it was more than obvious that it was all going to come to nothing. It was one step away from street theatre. But people seem to crave street theatre now (witness the various council-backed neighborhood festivals in some big cities-which are actually quite good if you can stand being among lots of men with beards.) I'm sometimes tempted to put it down to the legacy of the 1968 generation, and their general inability to resist diluting their politics.
Flavour
hang the bankers
My assessment: putin looks weak, his MoD even worse and the people prigozhin didn't like are all gone.
Lukashenko comes out looking strong, independent, the peacemaker we need.
Prigozhin is a dead man walking.
No matter what happens this is going to be a huge boost to Ukraine.
The Wagner will not just go back to Ukraine and get stuck into business as usual. There are long repercussions to an action of this scale.
Ukraine counteroffensive will increase in confidence.
Russia more likely than ever to destroy Zaporzhzhia NPP or launch tactical nuke in order to fuck then up.
Lukashenko comes out looking strong, independent, the peacemaker we need.
Prigozhin is a dead man walking.
No matter what happens this is going to be a huge boost to Ukraine.
The Wagner will not just go back to Ukraine and get stuck into business as usual. There are long repercussions to an action of this scale.
Ukraine counteroffensive will increase in confidence.
Russia more likely than ever to destroy Zaporzhzhia NPP or launch tactical nuke in order to fuck then up.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Are you alleging that there were people here with a hardon for the fall of Putin and the end of the Ukraine war? I very much doubt it, but I will join you in condemning them as pervy crypto-Nazis.
gosub
~#
In Winchester next weekend by coincidence its Hat Fair....I shall look out for acts in any way simililar to 25000 armed men with a grievence
ska invita
back on the other side
Yes there are many reasons why this leaves Putin weakened and every Sunday paper in the UK will list them, but there are probably positives for Putin also: major rival is out the way and neutered, the test of a coup didn't result in either mass uprising on the streets or top brass buckling at the test. Any potential 'traitors' may have outed themselves and will be dealt with no doubt. If regularising irregular forces was seen as an important short term goal it will now happen faster.
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Hmmm. You're still claiming a bit too much there imo. This kind of thing always looks unlikely to succeed until it does.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
I just think that some people were really excited (why I don't really know, as Prighozin was Satan yesterday), and began to actually believe that their world was finally becoming the real world.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The generals who plotted against Hitler weren't nice people either. The likes of Rommel also believed in their war until it started going wrong. But it would still have been great if they had succeeded.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
Fair enough, but I still doubt that Prighozin ever saw himself sitting on the throne in the Kremlin, whatever else might have been running through his mind.
RD2003
Got a really fucking shitty attitude
I suspect that he was assured that a Yeltsin-style bloodbath awaited his men in Moscow. It could be why he is now crowing about no Russian blood having been shed.
Ax^
Silly Rabbit
hmm assuming you had a semi all day because nuclear holocaust was adverted for a few hours
If he got wind that he was up for elimination due to his rants against the leadership then this can be seen as a desperate throw of the dice to improve his predicament. I doubt it has though. He’s bought time maybe.
