Thats it, I give up. I'm never voting again!!!

[Barking_Mad]

I had a look at that political compass.

Apparently I am just slightly more Libertarian then Ghandi. Just down a block or two.

Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -5.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.49

ETA: Holy crap, I AM the Dalal Lama we occupy exactly the same spot on the politcal compass. How cool is that

I always find it funny that people have a go at folk being 'liberal' or 'fluffies'. Look at the political compass and decide what sort of people you'd rather be aligned with.

http://www.politicalcompass.org/

Below the line with the Dalai Lama and Ghandi, or above the line with a bunch of murderous cretins such as Bush and Mugabi......decisions, decisions....

 

[MatthewCuffe]

There's absolutely no reason whatsoever why we cannot collectively build a UK movement which represents people along the lines of the Dalai Lama or Gandhi, and turns those philosophies into a coherent, organised force capable of praxis as much as theory - and a movement which institutes an ecological welfare state which rewards good environmental practice and punishes negative externalities. No reason whatsoever.

Apart from the fact that we live in a dreadful City Academy nation under the thumb of a demon headmaster who uses basic hypnotic techniques to repress the people; apart from the vitriolic and idiotic ring-wing press and media in the hands of corporate oligarchs who use their international capital to spread hatred against international labour; apart from the general atmosphere of cynicism which affects everyone and everything in the UK; apart from the hegemony of a market system which is collapsing around us under the strain of global warming; apart from a war economy which is hidden from view, constantly expanding, and preparing for a bogus 50 year 'war on terror'.

Apart from all that - let's just get on and do it. Day by day, over decades, together, remorselessly, with no care for the cynical dismal stories we are told by the other kids in the Demon Headmaster's school.

The food's crap in the canteen, and the Headmaster's assemblies aren't worth bothering with. Sod the smoking ban. I'll see you round the back of the bikesheds plotting sedition. End the sedation!

Vote if you've got a valid option, don't if you haven't.

Above all, organise organise organise.

 

[netbob]

it won't detach 'em AT ALL; the reason why is simple.
The whips are the HoCs bruisers, they enforce party discipline on rebellious MPs. any MP, in any party, is ordered to vote by whipping. any that rebel see their names in the 'naughty book'. so any MP who wants to rise to high office CAN'T do it by voting against the whip. his dissidence will be known to the brass.

I agree that's the problem with the Whips as it stands. My argument is that this situation only occurs because the Whips/parties have historically had a monopoly on MP's balls. That could change if their balls were more equaly distributed.

MP's daily actions are determined by the Whips because there is a direct cause and effect. If they vote the wrong way they end up in the Whips naughty book like you say. But the internet is slowly giving us our own naughty book. 10 years ago it was far from easy to find out who had 'rebelled', how people had voted etc. Now it is a peice of piss. This information could start to put the electorate on a more common plain with the party leaders.

The biggest remaininly stubling block to this is that the whips (i.e. the party orders rather than the bods themselves) are not published. If they were it would be much easier to measure what is driving individual MPs decisions and therefore easier to hold them to account.

It's worth reading the following blog entry from one of the people who runs publicwhip.org listing their goals when they setup the website. particuarly point 4:

http://www.flourish.org/blog/

 

[treelover]

RZ, no mention of the welfare reforms there, The Labour Party was set up to
tackle the scourge of poverty and inequality, yet if things go on the way they have been doing we will see over time S.American levels of inequality. The Labour Party has recovered from times of betrayal before such as that of Ramsey McDonald, but to me this coup and shift to neo-liberalism has gone too deep ands many good people have left. I watched the Parliament channel tonight to see the W/Pensions select committee discuss the W/Reforms: even so called moderate Lab M.P's seemed to totally endorse the cuts and attacks on the disabled. Indeed, no mention was made about why in our high pressure society more people are becoming ill in the first place. I really think that with three basically r/wing parties, there is now a severe crisis of democracy in this country, who will fill this void?

 

[tbaldwin]

There's absolutely no reason whatsoever why we cannot collectively build a UK movement which represents people along the lines of the Dalai Lama or Gandhi, and turns those philosophies into a coherent, organised force capable of praxis as much as theory - and a movement which institutes an ecological welfare state which rewards good environmental practice and punishes negative externalities. No reason whatsoever.

Apart from the fact that we live in a dreadful City Academy nation under the thumb of a demon headmaster who uses basic hypnotic techniques to repress the people; apart from the vitriolic and idiotic ring-wing press and media in the hands of corporate oligarchs who use their international capital to spread hatred against international labour; apart from the general atmosphere of cynicism which affects everyone and everything in the UK; apart from the hegemony of a market system which is collapsing around us under the strain of global warming; apart from a war economy which is hidden from view, constantly expanding, and preparing for a bogus 50 year 'war on terror'.

Apart from all that - let's just get on and do it. Day by day, over decades, together, remorselessly, with no care for the cynical dismal stories we are told by the other kids in the Demon Headmaster's school.

The food's crap in the canteen, and the Headmaster's assemblies aren't worth bothering with. Sod the smoking ban. I'll see you round the back of the bikesheds plotting sedition. End the sedation!

Vote if you've got a valid option, don't if you haven't.

Above all, organise organise organise.

Do you do stand up?

 

[MatthewCuffe]

No, I spend too much of my time sitting on my arse. Need to get back to those Malcolm X recordings...

I'm veering dangerously towards being one of those weird computerised freakoids they call otaku in Japan. Or robots, as we say here. Human interaction has become difficult. I don't like the way that so few of us (me included) ever really stand up for what we believe. We hope someone else will do it for us, and then get cynical when our representatives let us down. It's a crap state of affairs all round.

Do you do stand-up?

 

[fela fan]

No, I spend too much of my time sitting on my arse. Need to get back to those Malcolm X recordings...

I'm veering dangerously towards being one of those weird computerised freakoids they call otaku in Japan. Or robots, as we say here. Human interaction has become difficult. I don't like the way that so few of us (me included) ever really stand up for what we believe. We hope someone else will do it for us, and then get cynical when our representatives let us down. It's a crap state of affairs all round.

Do you do stand-up?

There may be the problem mate that too many people don't actually have anything to stand up for! They're satiated. I've never thought of this before, but there sure seems to be a lot of apathy about politics in britain. By that i mean that even though so many seem to see that they're all up to no good, or are no good, they've accepted this as a state of affairs, something that they can't change, but perhaps more importantly, they can't be bothered to change.

Too comfortable? Dunno, but if i'm right, then oh dear, what a sorry state. Or maybe i have no right to say that? If everybody's accepted what they've got who am i to ask them to fight?

Another problem i think is that there is a lack of organising skills in britain. For example, if that many are pissed off at the choice of votes, why is there not a campaign for millions and millions to go to the booths and simply write 'no vote'.