Sunak wants to phase out legal smoking

[Artaxerxes]

Its a load of balls, either ban it or don’t this weird escalator clause is just going to be a ball ache and be barely enforced if it’s enforced at all

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I feel like this is only happening because kids are less into smoking now anyway, and more into vaping which is probably easier to develop a taste for. I rarely see anyone smoke now. I see far more vapers. This is assumptions. I don't know the stats.

I'm also assuming the tobacco tycoons have got vape products now so will allow it.

Latest figures I can find are from 2018. They have regular smoking among 15-year-olds in steep decline - halving roughly between 2008 and 2018, down to around 5% in England, bit higher in Scotland and Wales. In 2018, the number of regular vapers aged 15 was around 2%.

My guess is that this will have changed a fair bit between 2018 and 2023. Wouldn't surprise me if the number of regular vapers is now higher than the number of regular smokers.

Smoking in young people – RCPCH – State of Child Health

These recent findings on vaping are pretty startling. Young people using disposables. The situation is clearly changing very rapidly.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2022.05.06.22274762v1.full.pdf

 

[PTK]

Im not keen on banning things, especially the smoking of naturally growing plants

The prohibition is on the purchase of cigarettes, which do not grow on plants. The smoking of tobbacco leaves will not ne illegal.

 

[Serge Forward]

I don't think I've ever seen the "people will still buy them on the black market" crew on this thread make a serious case for legalising crack cocaine and heroin. Or not wearing seatbelts. Or being exposed to asbestos in the workplace.

Er... I think crack and all recreational drugs should be as legal as alcohol is.

Eta: wot littlebabyjesus sez.

 

[LDC]

Er... I think crack and all recreational drugs should be as legal as alcohol is.

Eta: wot littlebabyjesus sez.

With any age restrictions, conditions of supply or quality similar to alcohol, or just a free for all?

I'm generally happy with the harder they make smoking tobacco the better tbh.

 

[PursuedByBears]

Tobacco is a stupid pointless drug that I wish I'd never smoked. Ban it now and give everyone free vapes. Failing that, this plan doesn't seem too bad.

 

[ska invita]

It's hard to

The prohibition is on the purchase of cigarettes, which do not grow on plants. The smoking of tobbacco leaves will not ne illegal.

A great example of the practical limitations of pedantry

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Hmmm, the more I look at the numbers, the more irrelevant this announcement appears. Smoking in young people is in sharp decline anyway. In the UK today, twice as many 18-year-olds vape than smoke.

 

[ska invita]

What about cannabis then? Hard to argue for it's legalisation whilst banning tobacco smoking

 

[PTK]

It's hard to

A great example of the practical limitations of pedantry

I was wondering why you seem to consider "natural" things to be superior to other things.

 

[PursuedByBears]

What about cannabis then? Hard to argue for it's legalisation whilst banning tobacco smoking

You can vape that too

 

[ska invita]

.
Can't seem to drink and post at same time

 

[littlebabyjesus]

.
Can't seem to drink and post at same time

Pop outside for a fag and do it there.

 

[Serge Forward]

With any age restrictions, conditions of supply or quality similar to alcohol, or just a free for all?

I'm generally happy with the harder they make smoking tobacco the better tbh.

As I said, as legal as alcohol is. So same restrictions. The "war on drugs" is pointless and mainly serves to criminalise users and incentivise organised crime. Banning cigarettes will have the same result.

What would be more useful would be to provide better and more accessible public health initiatives to encourage and help people off fags, alcohol and harmful drugs. Prohibition helps no one.

 

[Sasaferrato]

That'll be a whole lot of revenue lost for the government so i'd expect all sorts of other stealth taxes and fines to come in from other areas. Scaring the shit out of gullible people over the environment will probably be one of the main sources of covering the losses if smoking is banned. It's bad for you so we'll have to fine you............ it kills people so we'll profit from it ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, cunts.

Sadly, even if everyone stopped tomorrow, it would take probably twenty years for the benefits to be fully apparent. Lung cancer is far too often diagnosed at a late stage.

 

[Rob Ray]

I don't think I've ever seen the "people will still buy them on the black market" crew on this thread make a serious case for legalising crack cocaine and heroin. Or not wearing seatbelts. Or being exposed to asbestos in the workplace.

1. While the "people will still do it" line is accurate, there's no comparison implied there particularly in terms of social impact or method of treatment. Cigarette overdoses or habits taken to the extremes of robbing people for a hit are, to put it mildly, rare, so it's not really as though saying one should be legal is the same thing as saying both should be. That said ...
2. There is quite a lot of evidence that legalisation of hard drugs in tandem with serious rehabilitation efforts and a decent safety net is massively preferable to simply abandoning addicts to organised crime. Not that I'd trust the Tories or Labour to do so particularly competently, given their deliberately arse-backwards understanding of how poverty and crime work.
3. I'm not sure anyone's advocated not wearing seatbelts or exposing oneself to asbestos?

 

[ska invita]

As I said, as legal as alcohol is. So same restrictions. The "war on drugs" is pointless and mainly serves to criminalise users and incentivise organised crime. Banning cigarettes will have the same result.

What would be more useful would be to provide better and more accessible public health initiatives to encourage and help people off fags, alcohol and harmful drugs. Prohibition helps no one.

Aye.
Not being worked to death improves health as does generally being able to afford and enjoy good food/lifestyle etc.
That's the important thing if the state wants to improve health, not banning things

 

[Sasaferrato]

As I said, as legal as alcohol is. So same restrictions. The "war on drugs" is pointless and mainly serves to criminalise users and incentivise organised crime. Banning cigarettes will have the same result.

What would be more useful would be to provide better and more accessible public health initiatives to encourage and help people off fags, alcohol and harmful drugs. Prohibition helps no one.

The health implications of smoking have been known since Richard Doll published his findings of the correlation between smoking and lung cancer in 1950.
Of course, smoking doesn't just contribute to lung cancer:

• mouth
• throat
• voice box (larynx)
• oesophagus (the tube between your mouth and stomach)
• bladder
• bowel
• cervix
• kidney
• liver
• stomach
• pancreas

All of the above cancers are more prevalent in smokers.

I'm not a hypocrite, I'm not going down the 'well I never did that' road. I did. I smoked for fifty years and bitterly regret having done so.

Please, if you smoke, do have a proper try at stopping. It has cost me my ability to walk more than 50 yards without having to stop to get my breath back. It is costing the person I love more than anyone else on earth her life.

I learned a very bitter lesson, you don't have to.

(Apologies for the rant.).

 

[Serge Forward]

The health implications of smoking have been known since Richard Doll published his findings of the correlation between smoking and lung cancer in 1950.
Of course, smoking doesn't just contribute to lung cancer:

• mouth
• throat
• voice box (larynx)
• oesophagus (the tube between your mouth and stomach)
• bladder
• bowel
• cervix
• kidney
• liver
• stomach
• pancreas

All of the above cancers are more prevalent in smokers.

I'm not a hypocrite, I'm not going down the 'well I never did that' road. I did. I smoked for fifty years and bitterly regret having done so.

Please, if you smoke, do have a proper try at stopping. It has cost me my ability to walk more than 50 yards without having to stop to get my breath back. It is costing the person I love more than anyone else on earth her life.

I learned a very bitter lesson, you don't have to.

(Apologies for the rant.).

Nothing to apologise for and thank you for your concern. I don't disagree with you about the effects of smoking. I actually stopped smoking 12 years ago after being a heavy smoker for many years. I would encourage any other smoker to also try to stop this habit. However, I don't think prohibition is the way to deal with it. I suspect it will create a whole new set of problems by criminalising users and encouraging organised criminals. The fact that smoking is now in decline makes the idea of a ban make even less sense.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

1. While the "people will still do it" line is accurate, there's no comparison implied there particularly in terms of social impact or method of treatment. Cigarette overdoses or habits taken to the extremes of robbing people for a hit are, to put it mildly, rare, so it's not really as though saying one should be legal is the same thing as saying both should be. That said ...
2. There is quite a lot of evidence that legalisation of hard drugs in tandem with serious rehabilitation efforts and a decent safety net is massively preferable to simply abandoning addicts to organised crime. Not that I'd trust the Tories or Labour to do so particularly competently, given their deliberately arse-backwards understanding of how poverty and crime work.
3. I'm not sure anyone's advocated not wearing seatbelts or exposing oneself to asbestos?

I think it's good to widen the conversation away from a simplistic total legalisation vs illegal binary.

So in fact, very few people seem to be saying that heroin should be available in newsagents.

I raised seatbelts because there were Tory libertarians campaigning vigorously against the legislation that made wearing them compulsory. Same as the ban on smoking in workplaces.

And obviously yer Libertarian Communists are not campaigning for the freedom of bosses to fill their workplaces with noxious fumes whether that is tobacco or asbestos or whatever. But some people might.

I think your point 2 is exactly where I was going really - in the current climate there is no way we will get anything like the support mechanisms in place to help people or deal with the root causes of substance abuse. So maybe regulating some things in some ways is one of the few tools available that might make a difference, two edged sword though it is.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think smoking should be made mandatory for mps

 

[kalmatthew]

I did think that a really obvious step to decrease the ease of access to tobacco without banning it would be to require a licence to sell it as you do with booze. That might change the maths for some shops and would allow councils to say limit the number of shops in an area or impose other restrictions as well as for places selling to kids to have their licence removed.

 

[Cid]

What about cannabis then? Hard to argue for it's legalisation whilst banning tobacco smoking

I'm not sure it is... For one thing the legalisation of cannabis in the US hasn't been a net 'good' as such, instead it has lead to rampant commercialisation of cannabis products, a lot of health claims, huge numbers of poorly tested products etc. Reminded of the old legalisation vs decriminalisation debates we had long before then.

 

[Serge Forward]

I think smoking should be made mandatory for mps

Smoking from the tailpipe of a vintage diesel engine.

 

[Cid]

I mean obviously a situation I'd prefer to what we have here, I mean very significantly prefer. My 'hasn't been a net good' is probably the wrong way to phrase it; 'has come with many downsides' might be better.

 

[A380]

Fuck sake. When will the political class get their heads round the fact you can’t police yourself out of a health issue ?

 

[A380]

I think smoking should be made mandatory for mps

How much energy will it take to dry the kelp?

 

[ska invita]

Fuck sake. When will the political class get their heads round the fact you can’t police yourself out of a health issue ?

This is the nub of it.... Maintain horrible social system plus bans for health reasons, fuck that

 

[ska invita]

How much soma rations should be allowed per person per month?

 

[Cid]

As usual I think I'm going to say the idea has merits, but the shower of fuckwits we have in charge (and their likely replacements) will fuck it up massively.