Sunak wants to phase out legal smoking

[Brayfart]

Does this include vaping? Wonder how they are going to replace the lost tax revenue.

By not paying for all the end of life care that smokers need.

 

[T & P]

It’s a great idea. As everyone knows, making substances illegal, or even just restricting them to some age groups, has long been a highly effective tactic. So just as no underage teen in this country ever manages to get their hands on alcohol or drugs, a ban on cigarettes will stop future generations from taking up the filthy habit

 

[ska invita]

Why not just outlaw smoking altogether by a certain deadline?

thats even worse!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

By not paying for all the end of life care that smokers need.

Costlier pensions, though, if the buggers won't die.

For kids born after 2009, their pension age will probably be about 80 anyway.

 

[ska invita]

It’s a great idea. As everyone knows, making substances illegal, or even just restricting them to some age groups, has long been a highly effective tactic. So just as no underage teen in this country ever manages to get their hands on alcohol or drugs, a ban on cigarettes will stop future generations from taking up the filthy habit

im sure it will very effectively reduce smoking and unlike making stronger drugs illegal i cant see it leading to people smoking dangerously cut tobacco....but even so its a matter of principle IMO

 

[muscovyduck]

I smoke and I reckon its a good idea.

I think smoking has been fazed out a lot more than we give credit for, for example I'm a "smoker" sometimes going up to 10 a day and that's seen as heavy smoking by most around me, including other smokers, but compared to my grandparents its nothing. And that's before you consider most people don't smoke indoors any more so the effects of second hand smoking are greatly reduced. This just feels like the next step

 

[pbsmooth]

certainly banning drugs has proved an unqualified, well-documented success.

 

[Rob Ray]

Given how comprehensively hard drugs have won the war on drugs, the idea of starting a new war on soft ones seems like a classic case of Einstein's definition of madness. And of "freedom loving" Conservatives once again soundbiting for the benefit of people who haven't thought it through beyond a vague "smoking shouldn't happen" formulation. If anything, making it illegal will lend it cool points for a generation of kids who haven't had a real reason to think that til now.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I smoke and I reckon its a good idea.

I think smoking has been fazed out a lot more than we give credit for, for example I'm a "smoker" sometimes going up to 10 a day and that's seen as heavy smoking by most around me, including other smokers, but compared to my grandparents its nothing. And that's before you consider most people don't smoke indoors any more so the effects of second hand smoking are greatly reduced. This just feels like the next step

Yeah, back in the day, 40-a-day habits were not uncommon. 20-a-day was pretty standard.

Today, if you smoked 40 branded fags a day, it would cost you £10,000 a year.

 

[Rob Ray]

If it's made illegal the price will plummet - no tax.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

certainly banning drugs has proved an unqualified, well-documented success.

Not sure how comparable this is, though. The high from tobacco smoking isn't all that, and like most drugs, it takes some effort to become hooked.

 

[ouirdeaux]

like a classic case of Einstein's definition of madness

It may well be madness, but Einstein never said that.

 

[brogdale]

Another ratchet in the inter-generational wealth transfer; the greys (like me) will be able to hang around outside the corner shop and tout fags to the youngsters.

 

[Rob Ray]

It may well be madness, but Einstein never said that.

But everyone knows the shorthand

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Another ratchet in the inter-generational wealth transfer; the greys (like me) will be able to hang around outside the corner shop and tout fags to the youngsters.

This happens in Cuba. Or it did when I was there. If you were over a certain age, you got fags as part of your rations and could sell them on to youngsters.

 

[Brayfart]

Costlier pensions, though, if the buggers won't die.

For kids born after 2009, their pension age will probably be about 80 anyway.

Smokers are more likely to retire early due to ill health and while working earn on average seven percent less than non-smokers, so they'll cover those pension costs.

 

[brogdale]

#wealthcreator

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Smokers are more likely to retire early due to ill health and while working earn on average seven percent less than non-smokers so they'll cover those pension costs.

First part I don't doubt, but second part is a case of correlation not equalling causation. There is a class aspect to smoking - for example people on the dole are much more likely to be smokers.

 

[danny la rouge]

making it illegal will lend it cool points for a generation of kids who haven't had a real reason to think that til now.

Exactly. As long as smoking is something grannies, geography teachers and vicars do, great. Once it becomes cool again, we’re onto a loser.

People seem to be confusing “I wish smoking would die out” with “this is the way to do it”. I agree the the former but not the latter.

 

[NoXion]

To declare my interest, I'm an ex-smoker going on about five years. I've even given up smoking green in the past year or so as a means of severing my last connection with tobacco. I tried vaping when I first attempted to give up smoking, but that actually made my throat feel worse than smoking did, all wheezy and constricted.

That said, I think this is an ill-conceived idea for reasons others have already pointed out, and I strongly suspect that it's one being offered in bad faith. It's got some traction due to being a policy of the NZ government, who've earned some cachet as liberal darlings, but good intentions do not repair bad policy.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Smoking is in long-term decline anyway. And you're right that these are generational changes. It's down to just over 12% of the adult population now, from a peak of 40%. Plus, as noted above, your average smoker smokes fewer fags today than they used to. That decline is no doubt going to continue.

 

[quimcunx]

I feel like this is only happening because kids are less into smoking now anyway, and more into vaping which is probably easier to develop a taste for. I rarely see anyone smoke now. I see far more vapers. This is assumptions. I don't know the stats.

I'm also assuming the tobacco tycoons have got vape products now so will allow it.

 

[Elpenor]

I hate smoking, and it killed my Mum. I would happily see smoking phased out but as danny la rouge says this isn’t the way. Prohibition, the war on drugs etc just doesn’t work.

So really this is just another Tory trick, an on the surface reasonable if largely unworkable proposition designed to create a talking point - which has clearly worked here - and obscure from sight some of the more evil things they have planned.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Exactly. As long as smoking is something grannies, geography teachers and vicars do, great. Once it becomes cool again, we’re onto a loser.

This is the problem with vaping now. I started vaping a decade ago and at the time it was not a cool thing to do. It was something old gits like me did to get themselves off fags. But somehow it's become cool among kids.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I don't think I've ever seen the "people will still buy them on the black market" crew on this thread make a serious case for legalising crack cocaine and heroin. Or not wearing seatbelts. Or being exposed to asbestos in the workplace.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I don't think I've ever seen the "people will still buy them on the black market" crew on this thread make a serious case for legalising crack cocaine and heroin. Or not wearing seatbelts.

I would legalise heroin, fwiw. But that doesn't mean I want to see it sold in shops, just that a safe, legal supply should be available to those who need it, and users should not be classified as criminals. Legal but heavily regulated. Seen too many people killed by heroin needlessly, its criminalisation a key factor in their deaths.

 

[Fozzie Bear]

I would legalise heroin, fwiw. But that doesn't mean I want to see it sold in shops, just that a safe, legal supply should be available to those who need it, and users should not be classified as criminals. Legal but heavily regulated. Seen too many people killed by heroin needlessly, its criminalisation a key factor in their deaths.

I think that's fine, tbf.

I agree with others who have said that the smoking ban in workplaces is the most important thing but I generally think state regulation has a part to play in improving health outcomes. Until the revolution.

 

[Brayfart]

First part I don't doubt, but second part is a case of correlation not equalling causation. There is a class aspect to smoking - for example people on the dole are much more likely to be smokers.

ASH's figures claim to be adjusted for other variables. If they hadn't adjusted for social class, the difference would be massive surely? If it makes people retire early why is it hard to imagine it makes them less productive before their retirement?

 

[ohmyliver]

Does this include vaping? Wonder how they are going to replace the lost tax revenue.

Legalising weed?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

ASH's figures claim to be adjusted for other variables. If they hadn't adjusted for social class, the difference would be massive surely? If it makes people retire early why is it hard to imagine it makes them less productive before their retirement?

Hard to adjust for factors such as the motivation needed to give up smoking. People whose lives aren't going great generally are less likely to quit than people who are in a more positive frame of mind.