Sunak wants to phase out legal smoking

[Artaxerxes]

FWIW, my friend with the lung condition treats large clouds of vape exhaust in exactly the same way as cigarette pollution. I've no idea if it's based on real experience of coughing/shortness of breath induced by vape clouds or whether it's psychological association of the two hazards, but whatever, vaping out huge clouds of those smelly perfumed gases in busy public places is pretty anti-social as well.

Yeah I’d not mind vapes if it wasn’t for the gusts of rank cinnamon smoke

First e-cig I saw was this tiny little thing with a blue light, mimicked a cig but not much smoke, about 20 years ago. That was fine, minimal vapour. Now it’s gusts of the stuff

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I used to go outside the pub with the smokers even after I stopped - you get pleasant conversations with a group of people that you wouldn't necessarily talk to in the pub.

Same, also used to go downstairs with the smokers at work, unless it was pissing down in which case they could kill themselves and get a soaking

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Stopped smoking 13 years ago after a 40 year smoking habit. Still miss it. In the 1990s I worked in a place that had smoking and non-smoking staff rooms. The non-smoking room was quiet, like a library. The smokers' room was full of people chatting and had more of a party atmosphere.

Exactly the same with the smoking carriages on the trains.

 

[PTK]

Exactly the same with the smoking carriages on the trains.

The smoking carriages on my local line were so disgusting that even some smokers avoided them.

 

[maomao]

Yeah I’d not mind vapes if it wasn’t for the gusts of rank cinnamon smoke

First e-cig I saw was this tiny little thing with a blue light, mimicked a cig but not much smoke, about 20 years ago. That was fine, minimal vapour. Now it’s gusts of the stuff

I don't remember the exact terminology but there are two kinds of glycerol they use, one for 'mouth feel' (ie. harshness at the back of the throat) and one for visible clouds. Why would you want big visible clouds of fake smoke if not out of sheer obnoxiousness?

 

[lazythursday]

I don't remember the exact terminology but there are two kinds of glycerol they use, one for 'mouth feel' (ie. harshness at the back of the throat) and one for visible clouds. Why would you want big visible clouds of fake smoke if not out of sheer obnoxiousness?

I don't vape nicotine, but I do vape cannabis sometimes, both in the dry herb and cartridge format, and there's something far more satisfying about vaping when there are clouds. I don't know why, I guess it's purely psychological, but it is noticeably more appealing. And from the perspective of being someone who is trying not to smoke that's a positive thing.

 

[cupid_stunt]

With pubs having enough problems, I am vexed with the idea of banning smoking in pub gardens.

 

[Jennaonthebeach]

I worked for London Underground from 1989 so smoking was never allowed on LU premises. So we had no smoking rooms, though people in depots got a little bus shelter type arrangement to smoke in - i never actually saw anyone using one.

Trying to remember when smoking was completely banned on underground trains because i remember one of my colleagues (named Philip Dick) tackling a smoker right after the absolute ban was brought in - which Google says was in 1987 but I didn't work there till 1989. So am confused. I also remember smoking and non smoking carriages so am sure it was later than '87.

Around the time that Google Street-view first appeared, I found a photo of my colleague smoking outside Baker Street offices on it so I let him know. Next time I looked he was pixilated out.

 

[maomao]

I'd be more likely to drink in a pub with a garden if it was non-smoking. I know some ex-smokers like to show off how it doesn't bother them anymore but for some of us giving up was very difficult, took years and even eight years after I'm uncomfortable around smoke.

 

[newme]

With pubs having enough problems, I am vexed with the idea of banning smoking in pub gardens.

Yup, the one here usually has about the same inside and outside because they can smoke out there. Forcing them all inside isn't going to help much with retaining the locals who go year round. rather than the tourists who boost the food take during the summer inside.

 

[two sheds]

Stopped smoking 13 years ago after a 40 year smoking habit. Still miss it. In the 1990s I worked in a place that had smoking and non-smoking staff rooms. The non-smoking room was quiet, like a library. The smokers' room was full of people chatting and had more of a party atmosphere.

about the same for me but I don't miss it at all. Partially because I know if I had a cigarette I'd dissolve in a coughing fit. I do miss smoking (pure) spliffs though as remarked above there's something satisfying about a cloud of smoke and it's much faster acting than eating it. I can't really get on with vaping it either though.

I stopped for a while a few years ago and quite enjoyed being in a smoky pub because I'd decided I I could do with all the nicotine I could get.

 

[brogdale]

Having a pint and a smoke is one of the joys of life for a lot of people. I don't smoke anymore, but when I'm out I'm normally outside with the smokers as it's the most social part of the venue. The ban indoors was fair because a smoky pub isn't pleasant for some, but outside??

I enjoy a pint as much (if not more) than the average person, so could be cast as something of a hypocrite, but I have to say that I'm uncomfortable about boozing and smoking being hailed as one (two) of the joys of working class life. If we stand back and look at our joys, they do represent mass addictions that profit the corporate dealers and externalise the social/environmental costs onto taxes from labour. Objectively, there is nothing there to celebrate.

As for pub/cafe gardens etc. there appears to be an assumption that non-smokers only want to sit inside.

 

[InArduisFouette]

I worked for London Underground from 1989 so smoking was never allowed on LU premises. So we had no smoking rooms, though people in depots got a little bus shelter type arrangement to smoke in - i never actually saw anyone using one.

Trying to remember when smoking was completely banned on underground trains because i remember one of my colleagues (named Philip Dick) tackling a smoker right after the absolute ban was brought in - which Google says was in 1987 but I didn't work there till 1989. So am confused. I also remember smoking and non smoking carriages so am sure it was later than '87.

Around the time that Google Street-view first appeared, I found a photo of my colleague smoking outside Baker Street offices on it so I let him know. Next time I looked he was pixilated out.

I suspect the absolute ban came about in the aftermath of the King's Cross fire

 

[PTK]

I enjoy a pint as much (if not more) than the average person, so could be cast as something of a hypocrite, but I have to say that I'm uncomfortable about boozing and smoking being hailed as one (two) of the joys of working class life. If we stand back and look at our joys, they do represent mass addictions that profit the corporate dealers and externalise the social/environmental costs onto taxes from labour. Objectively, there is nothing there to celebrate.

As for pub/cafe gardens etc. there appears to be an assumption that non-smokers only want to sit inside.

Smoking is really amazing.
Companies make large profits from providing something that we do not need, and adversely affects our health.

 

[Yossarian]

With pubs having enough problems, I am vexed with the idea of banning smoking in pub gardens.

Yeah, I agree with some of the arguments in favour of a ban but if pubs can't at least make some provision for people who want to smoke outside, I think it might kill off a lot of establishments that can't afford to lose some of their best customers

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Yup, the one here usually has about the same inside and outside because they can smoke out there. Forcing them all inside isn't going to help much with retaining the locals who go year round. rather than the tourists who boost the food take during the summer inside.

The ban will kill off a particular type of ale house. The gastropub, beloved of the chattering classes like Starmer will be okay, some city centre pubs will be fine too. Sadly, for some on here, I suspect most Spoons will also be okay.

But the community local, already dying off at alarming rates, will be finished by the ban. Can't smoke inside, can't smoke outside, can't smoke 'nearby'.... so the smokers will just start buying in from the supermarket or off licence. The rest of us will stop going too as the places will be empty.

 

[cupid_stunt]

The ban will kill off a particualr type of ale house. The gastropub, beloved of the chattering classes will be okay, some city centre pubs will be fine too. Sadly, for some on here, I suspect most Spoons will also be okay.

But the community local, already dying off at alarming rates, will be finished by the ban. Can't smoke inside, can't smoke outside, can't smoke 'nearby'.... so the smokers will just start buying in from the supermarket or off licence. The rest of us will stop going too as the places will be empty.

Or closed.

 

[Smokeandsteam]

Smoking is really amazing.
Companies make large profits from providing something that we do not need, and adversely affects our health.

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing that.

 

[Elpenor]

I enjoy a pint as much (if not more) than the average person, so could be cast as something of a hypocrite, but I have to say that I'm uncomfortable about boozing and smoking being hailed as one (two) of the joys of working class life. If we stand back and look at our joys, they do represent mass addictions that profit the corporate dealers and externalise the social/environmental costs onto taxes from labour. Objectively, there is nothing there to celebrate.

As for pub/cafe gardens etc. there appears to be an assumption that non-smokers only want to sit inside.

I’m a non smoker and usually want to sit outside. Pubs tend to be smelly and badly ventilated inside

 

[PTK]

Fascinating. Thanks for sharing that.

Can you think of any other product like that?

 

[mentalchik]

Smoking is really amazing.
Companies make large profits from providing something that we do not need, and adversely affects our health.

I could say the same about alcohol

 

[PTK]

I could say the same about alcohol

Ah, but small amounts of alcohol do not cause medical harm, but even small amounts of smoke are bad for the body. Furthermore, alcohol does change the state of mind.

 

[story]

I don't vape nicotine, but I do vape cannabis sometimes, both in the dry herb and cartridge format, and there's something far more satisfying about vaping when there are clouds. I don't know why, I guess it's purely psychological, but it is noticeably more appealing. And from the perspective of being someone who is trying not to smoke that's a positive thing.

A mate of mine reckons humans will always have an attachment to smoke because of long deep important connection and association with fire and incense. Food and spiritual practices are foundational in us and smoke is part & parcel of those.


I used to smoke. I miss it sometimes but rarely and briefly. Hate the smell of straights, don't mind roll-ups.

I'll choose to sit upwind of smoke if they're there before me but find it objectionable if they fire up after sitting down near me. That feels rude and intrusive, although I remember not fully understanding how obnoxious it was for others when I was a smoker.

I go to a lot of small gigs. The outside smoking area is always covered because British weather so in some of them it's really an indoor space. Some (like The George) have enormous umbrellas over the tables so it's okay: sufficient air flow. The Windmill has an actual smoking shed, like in some 1970s schools. The Shacklewell Arms' smoking area is always really crowded and very smoky. At the Windmill and the Shack I'll visit the smoking ghetto but not for long. I have to get out before being hugely distracted by the smell, to the point of stumbling in conversation.

The way my clobber smells afterwards is reminiscent of clubland back in the day and makes me feel nostalgic about younger me even though I hate it.

I've enjoyed the funny little side rooms and niche spots in larger venues, exposed and repurposed roof areas etc., having to climb an obscure staircase and then finding yourself with a grand view.

I understand why this ban is being proposed. But it's going to make things extra tricky for venues, especially the smaller places that are competing for trade (not gigs so much: music fans will still wanna go see live bands).

And I'm not against it. But it'll end some aspects of social life that are intrinsically linked to smoking, and it always feels a little sad when we lose something cultural that feels personally significant.


Apologies for unnecessarily long post. I'm in a waiting room.

Remember when people smoked in hospital, doctor, dentist waiting rooms?

 

[PTK]

A mate of mine reckons humans will always have an attachment to smoke because of long deep important connection and association with fire and incense. Food and spiritual practices are foundational in us and smoke is part & parcel of those.


I used to smoke. I miss it sometimes but rarely and briefly. Hate the smell of straights, don't mind roll-ups.

I'll choose to sit upwind of smoke if they're there before me but find it objectionable if they fire up after sitting down near me. That feels rude and intrusive, although I remember not fully understanding how obnoxious it was for others when I was a smoker.

I go to a lot of small gigs. The outside smoking area is always covered because British weather so in some of them it's really an indoor space. Some (like The George) have enormous umbrellas over the tables so it's okay: sufficient air flow. The Windmill has an actual smoking shed, like in some 1970s schools. The Shacklewell Arms' smoking area is always really crowded and very smoky. At the Windmill and the Shack I'll visit the smoking ghetto but not for long. I have to get out before being hugely distracted by the smell, to the point of stumbling in conversation.

The way my clobber smells afterwards is reminiscent of clubland back in the day and makes me feel nostalgic about younger me even though I hate it.

I've enjoyed the funny little side rooms and niche spots in larger venues, exposed and repurposed roof areas etc., having to climb an obscure staircase and then finding yourself with a grand view.

I understand why this ban is being proposed. But it's going to make things extra tricky for venues, especially the smaller places that are competing for trade (not gigs so much: music fans will still wanna go see live bands).

And I'm not against it. But it'll end some aspects of social life that are intrinsically linked to smoking, and it always feels a little sad when we lose something cultural that feels personally significant.


Apologies for unnecessarily long post. I'm in a waiting room.

Remember when people smoked in hospital, doctor, dentist waiting rooms?

People in Europe have only been smoking tobacco for about 400 years.

 

[lazythursday]

Ah, but small amounts of alcohol do not cause medical harm, but even small amounts of smoke are bad for the body. Furthermore, alcohol does change the state of mind.

I think the scientific consensus these days is no amount of alcohol is 'safe' as such. It is a toxic substance.

Anyway, I personally doubt this will happen, not as reported anyway. This smells of kite flying to me - civil servants at the Department of Health seeing how far they can push things under a new government. Some watered down version of an outdoor ban might happen, but probably not affecting pub gardens, or having some loopholes that mean individual pubs can opt out.

 

[not a trot]

Our local banned all smoking in the pub grounds last year, because the smokers were too lazy to use the ashtrays provided. A few kicked off about it, then went elsewhere.

 

[DotCommunist]

Remember when people smoked in hospital, doctor, dentist waiting rooms?

Re-watching Superman (Christopher Reeve era) is a bit of a shocker. Louise Lane smoking in the office. The Chief with his massive always lit stogie. In a kids film!

 

[brogdale]

Martin has spoken and declared the matter "a libertarian issue". My own experience of attempting to use his non-smoking outside areas is that there is zero monitoring or observance.

Tim Martin, founder of JD Wetherspoon, told the PA news agency:

Wetherspoon was the first pub company to open non-smoking pubs, long before smoking was banned. The rationale then was that non-smokers should be free to avoid passive smoking. That argument is diluted outside.
Our beer gardens are mostly divided into smoking and non-smoking areas, with non-smoking greatly predominant.
The question is whether the government should interfere in individual liberties where danger is involved. Mountaineering is dangerous, for example. Horse riding, statistically, causes many serious injuries.
I don’t think it will have a big effect on our business, one way or the other, and is really a libertarian issue.”

 

[story]

I’m a non smoker and usually want to sit outside. Pubs tend to be smelly and badly ventilated inside

One of the first things I noticed after the smoking ban was how smelly venues are. Crowds of people in a room, dancing etc. I got to notice the signature smell of different crowds : date night/on the pull... coming straight from work, out with the lads...

People in Europe have only been smoking tobacco for about 400 years.

We've been building fires for cooking, burnt offerings, burning frankincense & myrrh etc for prayer and meditation, burning bodies after death etc. for many thousands of years. Smoke has always been part of the human experience.

Smoke was (is?) considered one if the ways to communicate with the gods/God. It carries the prayer, intention, invocation.

Maybe cigarettes are just a small handy portable alter fire after all.

 

[RevolutionSound]

Ah, but small amounts of alcohol do not cause medical harm

Yes they do.