Sunak wants to phase out legal smoking

[Artaxerxes]

Sure the industry is corrupt, but it's better to highlight that specifically rather than the substance itself.

Growing up around a 40 day user (if I’m erring on the low side) means I really cannot be doing with the substance if it helps

Vile smelling stuff that hot wires the brain in a cycle of dependcy no matter the cost. Vapes are easier on the lungs but I’m still not thrilled with them partly because of the way they are marketed and aimed at people who’d never otherwise have gone near a cig. Plus walking behind that big steam clouds annoying.

 

[Lotte]

It's that mad hellbeast Katherine Birbalsingh again.

I absolutely can't stand her but it's a bit more complicated than just banning praying. Michaela has a rule about kids not congregating in groups of more than 4. IIRC they don't have a Muslim prayer room, which I assume the girl in question's mum knew when she sent her there. From what I gather, some of the Muslim kids were making a big point of praying in the playground and using their blazers as mats and parents complained about them having to pray in the rain, and they were also bullying other Muslim kids for not being religious enough. One example was a girl being bullied into leaving the school choir because singing in choirs is haram. Parents got involved, and a black teacher got a brick thrown through their window and racially abused over it.

I agree the anti-woke crowd would be in uproar if it was Christian kids but the kids involved sound like nasty little bullies. And FWIW if it was Orthodox Jewish kids putting pressure on non-Orthodox or secular Jewish kids to be more observant, I'd feel the same (I'm Jewish myself but not religious, as evinced by me posting this on Shabbat). Schools don't need morality police.

 

[SpookyFrank]

I absolutely can't stand her but it's a bit more complicated than just banning praying. Michaela has a rule about kids not congregating in groups of more than 4. IIRC they don't have a Muslim prayer room, which I assume the girl in question's mum knew when she sent her there. From what I gather, some of the Muslim kids were making a big point of praying in the playground and using their blazers as mats and parents complained about them having to pray in the rain, and they were also bullying other Muslim kids for not being religious enough. One example was a girl being bullied into leaving the school choir because singing in choirs is haram. Parents got involved, and a black teacher got a brick thrown through their window and racially abused over it.

I agree the anti-woke crowd would be in uproar if it was Christian kids but the kids involved sound like nasty little bullies. And FWIW if it was Orthodox Jewish kids putting pressure on non-Orthodox or secular Jewish kids to be more observant, I'd feel the same (I'm Jewish myself but not religious, as evinced by me posting this on Shabbat). Schools don't need morality police.

Bullying should be dealt with as bullying. The religion bit seems incidental to that, and yet that's what the school seems to be focussed on.

Schools have lots of rooms. Don't see why one couldn't be set aside for prayers at break times. That would take any performative stuff out of the equation because there'd be a dedicated private space that kids could use or not as they saw fit. Any kid who was only doing it for some kind of status play or because they weren't allowed to do it would probably lose interest in prayer pretty quickly if it was normalised, accepted and supported by the school. For kids who genuinely just want to pray, they could be accommodated with a bare minimum of trouble and zero cost to anyone.

The no groups of over four people thing is just weird.

Anyway, this is the smoking ban thread so I'll leave it there.

Don't have much of an opinion on the smoking ban but something has to be done about kids vaping. Every day I see kids of 12 or 13 can't sit still for 20 minutes because they're jonesing for nicotine. If it takes a complete ban on all vape stuff to achieve that, fine by me. If you're gonna smoke, smoke properly.

 

[Dogsauce]

Do vapes make people tetchy and unreasonable like normal fags can do? Or is that something specific to smoking?

 

[SpookyFrank]

Do vapes make people tetchy and unreasonable like normal fags can do? Or is that something specific to smoking?

Nicotine withdrawal makes people irritable. Doesn't matter where your body got the nicotine from.

 

[Puddy_Tat]

Do vapes make people tetchy and unreasonable like normal fags can do? Or is that something specific to smoking?

does sunak smoke, or does it come naturally to him?

 

[nightowl]

It probably should be banned. Imagine if cigarettes were only just invented with today's knowledge of the health consequences. The government wouldn't allow them anywhere near the shelves.

 

[Silas Loom]

Apropos of this bill not making it through the wash-up and presumably needing to fight for space with quite a lot of other laudable and urgent Labour manifesto commitments in the next parliament, does anyone actually know anyone under 20 who smokes? Anyone under 25?

My youngest vapes like a fiend, and so do many of her friends and colleagues , but she claims not to know a single cigarette smoker.

 

[seeformiles]

Apropos of this bill not making it through the wash-up and presumably needing to fight for space with quite a lot of other laudable and urgent Labour manifesto commitments in the next parliament, does anyone actually know anyone under 20 who smokes? Anyone under 25?

My youngest vapes like a fiend, and so do many of her friends and colleagues , but she claims not to know a single cigarette smoker.

I read an article recently that some kids are opting for traditional cigs over vapes as it’s seen as edgier. Not that surprising among young ‘uns but Lordy, the cost!

 

[Everything Goes]

Looks like Labour will pick up this legislation where it left off. Could be in the Kings speech today.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Looks like Labour will pick up this legislation where it left off. Could be in the Kings speech today.

Good.

 

[skyscraper101]

Who can even afford to smoke cigs these days. The legislation, while no bad thing, is tantamount to banning speedboat ownership to young people. I'm way more interested in banning disposable vapes and legislating for health reform and food standards. Like actual real world impact stuff.

 

[Boo Radley75]

Can just see the scene, 30 years from now...

47 year old hanging around outside the corner shop and stopping a 48 year old going in...

"Oi mate, get us a packet of fags, can you?"

"Fuck off, kid, you're too young!"

 

[Yossarian]

Who can even afford to smoke cigs these days.

Been a long time since I've bought legal or illegal cigarettes but I'd be surprised if the ancient trade of tobacco-smuggling has died out completely

 

[skyscraper101]

Been a long time since I've bought legal or illegal cigarettes but I'd be surprised if the ancient trade of tobacco-smuggling has died out completely

It hasn't, and like I said this legislation isn't about banning smoking - its just banning the sale of tobacco to young people. It'll barely register in an era where smoking is on the decline anyway, and vaping is cheaper and more popular among young people.

 

[two sheds]

I read that the tobacco lobby pressurized the tories to shelve the legislation.

Another vote for 'good' that it's being reintroduced.

 

[moochedit]

I read that the tobacco lobby pressurized the tories to shelve the legislation.

Another vote for 'good' that it's being reintroduced.

No the bill had got through the first vote but ran out of time when the election was called. Both parties had said they would reintroduce it.

 

[StoneRoad]

No the bill had got through the first vote but ran out of time when the election was called. Both parties had said they would reintroduce it.

Hopefully, that should speed up the process.

 

[moochedit]

Hopefully, that should speed up the process.

I would be surprised if it doesn't pass. Personally i have doubts about this idea but we'll see what happens in practice.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Was reading the other day tat smoking rates in the UK is ~11% of adults, the year I was born is was >50%. So that's a good thing. The idea of 50 year old's bribing 51 years olds to buy them snout is comical, but probably won't come to pass, they'll not be asking folk for ID that far down the line. But if it takes it down from 11% to low single figures that's positive. Single-use vapes need to be got rid out ASAP.



Every 10 minutes someone's world falls apart because they puffed that first cigarette

 

[StoneRoad]

I had an "interesting" conversation a few days ago ...
my mate, a smoker, was saying something along the lines of "but all the tobacco tax we pay, what about that stopping ..."
my reply was "and think of the money that the NHS will save - in the longer term - by the vast reduction in lung [& other] cancers and heart disease ..."

[my mate is trying - again - to give up atm]

 

[alex_]

Cigarettes will also be 100 quid a pack by then, and hardly available anywhere as no one will want to sell them any more.

Ons data

 

[Boo Radley75]

Was reading the other day tat smoking rates in the UK is ~11% of adults, the year I was born is was >50%. So that's a good thing. The idea of 50 year old's bribing 51 years olds to buy them snout is comical, but probably won't come to pass, they'll not be asking folk for ID that far down the line. But if it takes it down from 11% to low single figures that's positive. Single-use vapes need to be got rid out ASAP.



Every 10 minutes someone's world falls apart because they puffed that first cigarette

It might get people looking after their elderly parents better if they know that's their only source of getting 20 B & H.

 

[1927]

I had an "interesting" conversation a few days ago ...
my mate, a smoker, was saying something along the lines of "but all the tobacco tax we pay, what about that stopping ..."
my reply was "and think of the money that the NHS will save - in the longer term - by the vast reduction in lung [& other] cancers and heart disease ..."

[my mate is trying - again - to give up atm]

Tobacco taxes raise £8.8 billion a year, cost to NHS of treating smokers is £2.5 billion.

 

[2hats]

Cigarettes will also be 100 quid a pack by then, and hardly available anywhere as no one will want to sell them any more.

Ons data

Though AGW-driven consequences might be curbing tobacco production by then.

Tobacco taxes raise £8.8 billion a year, cost to NHS of treating smokers is £2.5 billion.

What's the cost of treating non-smokers who inhale secondary smoke, indeed the overall cost of smoking to society?

 

[two sheds]

additional costs like days off sick particularly as people age, and it's not only financial effects.

 

[Dogsauce]

Though AGW-driven consequences might be curbing tobacco production by then.

What's the cost of treating non-smokers who inhale secondary smoke, indeed the overall cost of smoking to society?

Also smoking litter, mental health costs, fire deaths and damage, diversion of money from things like healthy food and lifestyle (having once lived in a shared house with other doleys and some of them going without food when skint but never fags).

 

[two sheds]

yep deliberately addictive - it was a real coup to persuade some judges or other that cigarette companies weren't liable for the damage they deliberately cause.

 

[1927]

additional costs like days off sick particularly as people age, and it's not only financial effects.

I started reading up on other costs and it was interesting and it seems coming up with a figure isnt a simple exercise. Also need yo consider how much is saved in pension costs for those dying prematurely.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

I started reading up on other costs and it was interesting and it seems coming up with a figure isnt a simple exercise. Also need yo consider how much is saved in pension costs for those dying prematurely.

You could and it would be substantial, but to run with that you need to be of a similar mindset that says exonerated prisoners need board and lodgings deducted from their compo.

The simple fact is that if fewer people smoke more people will live longer lives and during those lives will be able to remain active for far longer.