Stephen Lawrence murder trial begins at Old Bailey

[TopCat]

I don't want to change my workplace, where I do pretty much what the fuck I want, just because I hear casual racism from arseholes. As I just said, water off a duck's fucking back.

And most people don't change jobs because they hear racism. Many welcome it and, indeed, join in.

It ain't water off a ducks back to many people. How do your black/brown colleagues feel about it?

 

[TopCat]

cockneys are all bitter. i think it was because their granddads were all cuckolded by american servicemen during the war. it's left a legacy of hate.

Take yer humour and feck off.

 

[grit]

It can be exhausting and soul destroying. Now, as I said, I tend to regard the world as incurably idiotic. I can't help it.

This.

Some fights are not worth the effort. I had a white south african boss when I was younger, he was a staunch supporter of apartheid. I would argue the anti racist point with him, but fucking hell after a while I just realized what a fucking waste of time it was.

 

[LLETSA]

Casual racism is not dying out but racists themselves are so often cowards they can be easily challenged. If challenged and dealt with rigorously they tend to keep their opinions to themselves or fuck off. Hence me wondering who you come into contact with and how much you challenge people.

They're mostly people who I get on fine with in most circumstances. They've no time for organised racists and mostly vote Labour (if at all.) As I keep saying, it's just a set of assumptions passed down the generations-casual prejudice. Sometimes I take the piss, at other times I'm too preoccupied or can't be arsed.

 

[LLETSA]

It ain't water off a ducks back to many people. How do your black/brown colleagues feel about it?

Like I said, the few that there are are perfectly capable of looking after themselves. In any case, it's mostly the type of casual prejudice that doesn't apply to those non-whites that you personally know.

 

[discokermit]

Take yer humour and feck off.

seriously, i've never known racism as bad as when i worked in south london/croydon. the black country is hardly some racist free utopia but when i moved to london i was genuinely shocked.

 

[TopCat]

This.

Some fights are not worth the effort. I had a white south african boss when I was younger, he was a staunch supporter of apartheid. I would argue the anti racist point with him, but fucking hell after a while I just realized what a fucking waste of time it was.

I would have fucked him up in all sorts of ways. Made his life a misery.

 

[grit]

I would have fucked him up in all sorts of ways. Made his life a misery.

He was my boss and an ex mercenary... I understand and appreciate your sentiment, but I'll admit my own sense of self preservation kicked in after a while.

I can see how challenging the casual racists could be productive,the type of people who dont even think about it, its just near tradition for them. The hardcore are a different breed.

 

[LLETSA]

I can see how challenging the casual racists could be productive,the type of people who dont even think about it, its just near tradition for them. The hardcore are a different breed.

This is just the thing. You can talk to people about it and pretty much convince them they're wrong, only to find them saying exactly the same things at a later date (as with many subjects, not just racism.) Or they'll intensify what they normally say in an attempt to wind you up. In the end you just have to shrug your shoulders.

I think that those who work in teaching, local government, the charity sector etc etc may gain a pretty false view of how much racism still exists and how it's just second nature to loads of people.

 

[TopCat]

Casual racists are all around us and will never go away. They need to be challenged yes. Organised racists are a different matter. They need a brutal beating, be sent home limping as an example to the rest.

 

[grit]

Casual racists are all around us and will never go away. They need to be challenged yes. Organised racists are a different matter. They need a brutal beating, be sent home limping as an example to the rest.

Yeah... thing is though you have to be careful, you can end being as bad as the thing you are fighting against IYSWIM.

 

[LLETSA]

dp

 

[LLETSA]

dp

 

[ViolentPanda]

People from the Black Country are all bitter. i think it was because their grandmothers all had willing and depraved sexual congress with the factory-owners while their menfolk were busy creating surplus value in the factories. it's left a legacy of hate.

Good of you to admit it, like.

 

[TopCat]

Yeah... thing is though you have to be careful, you can end being as bad as the you are fighting against IYSWIM.

I don't think you ever end up like that but for sure the emotional cost has taken a toll on quite a few. Not me really, I was always on the periphery but others have not worked, had relationships, the struggle fucked them up.

 

[ViolentPanda]

seriously, i've never known racism as bad as when i worked in south london/croydon. the black country is hardly some racist free utopia but when i moved to london i was genuinely shocked.

Croydon thinks it is London, but is actually Surrey touched by bits of London sprawl.

 

[TopCat]

Croydon thinks it is London, but is actually Surrey touched by bits of London sprawl.

Don't piss us Croydonites off. There are more of us than in any other London Borough.

 

[ViolentPanda]

He was my boss and an ex mercenary... I understand and appreciate your sentiment, but I'll admit my own sense of self preservation kicked in after a while.

I can see how challenging the casual racists could be productive,the type of people who dont even think about it, its just near tradition for them. The hardcore are a different breed.

Of course, "ex mercenary" in the RSA often means "me and my mates used to get ten rand a head off the local coppers for beating up kaffirs", or "I was a member of the AWB who went on weekenders to Namibia".

 

[ViolentPanda]

Don't piss us Croydonites off. There are more of us than in any other London Borough.

Because you're actually in Surrey, you Surreyite!

 

[grit]

Of course, "ex mercenary" in the RSA often means "me and my mates used to get ten rand a head off the local coppers for beating up kaffirs", or "I was a member of the AWB who went on weekenders to Namibia".

Be as cute as you like, to this day he was one of the toughest men I've ever met, and I've drank with quite a few gangsters/provos while getting up to mischief in Dublin.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Be as cute as you like, to this day he was one of the toughest men I've ever met, and I've drank with quite a few scumbags while getting up to mischief in Dublin.

I'm not being cute, I've met a few plastic Saffers, though, one of whom claimed to be an ex-merc, but couldn't even strip a Browning Hi-Power.

 

[Meltingpot]

Be as cute as you like, to this day he was one of the toughest men I've ever met, and I've drank with quite a few gangsters/provos while getting up to mischief in Dublin.

What is it with SA and mercs? Pretty much every other time you hear of a mercenary in the news, he seems to have served in the South African army.

 

[grit]

What is it with SA and mercs? Pretty much every other time you hear of a mercenary in the news, he seems to have served in the South African army.

My knowledge of the history is pretty shit, but apparently a huge amount of men who left the army just essentially became "soliders of fortune"(I think thats the correct term)/mercs because they didnt know how to do anything else.

Apparently one common "game" these out of work soldiers used to play to kill time between jobs, was for one of them to rape a black woman while his mates called the cops. The object of the game being that you would "finish" and get out before cops/security responded

 

[Meltingpot]

My knowledge of the history is pretty shit, but apparently a huge amount of men who left the army just essentially became "soliders of fortune" (I think thats the correct term) because they didnt know how to do anything else.

Yep, could be true but wouldn't that be true of soldiers from other countries too, is what I'm getting at; it seems to be SA in particular.

Apparently one common "game" these out of work soldiers used to play to kill time between jobs, was for one of them to rape a black woman while his mates called the cops. The object of the game being that you would "finish" and get out before cops/security responded

Bastards.

 

[Spymaster]

Apparently one common "game" these out of work soldiers used to play to kill time between jobs, was for one of them to rape a black woman while his mates called the cops. The object of the game being that you would "finish" and get out before cops/security responded

That's got more than a whiff of bollocks about it.

 

[story]

Casual racists are all around us and will never go away. They need to be challenged yes. Organised racists are a different matter. They need a brutal beating, be sent home limping as an example to the rest.

Sometimes racism is insidious, and therefore hard to challenge.

A young black friend of mine who works in the gaming industry tells that, as the only black person in the office, most of the white people don't seem to know how to engage with him. When walking along a corridor he sees them deciding whether to greet him, to meet his eye, asking themselves "Well how would I greet a white person?" and trying to replicate it. He tells of how they make cheerful attempts to include him in conversation, after ceasing the conversation that was ongoing when he arrived.

Because of an HR problem, I pressed him on certain points. He was reluctant to suspect his colleagues of racism, but in the end the HR issue turned out to be a racist one.

How does one tackle this kind of invisible silent racism?

I have white South London acquaintances (Croydon & Crystal Palace) who have become more overtly racist in the last several months (since the riots, in fact...). They have hidden this from me over the years, presumably because they knew the reaction they'd get if they were more open.

I've had conversations with these people about their attitudes, and no longer see them. I recognise that nothing I have said will materially change their attitudes.

How can one challenge racism if it is hidden?

Mrs Magpie: I rarely encounter racism here in Brixton, but I know it happens. A poster on here recently experienced a racist comment in her child's school, in Lambeth. A mixed race friend of mine was recently turned down for a building job after being asked on the phone "Where were you born? (Zambia) We only employ British people". When he told me about it (again, only when I pressed him) I asked how often he encounters racism and he said "Weekly, at least." He lives in Tottenham.

When I asked these friends why they were so reluctant to speak about their experiences they told me that they can't change it, and don't want to waste time thinking about it, it's just part of their experience.

It prompted me to ask around, and the answers I have received suggest to me that racism is common, normal, and tolerated.

The racism displayed by the Lawrence killers is overt and dangerous, but the hidden racism is no less dangerous, and just as invidious.

 

[grit]

That's got more than a whiff of bollocks about it.

I've heard far stranger things in my life that I know for a fact to be true! but like anything it might not be, seems pretty tame considering some of the things that are acknowledged to go on in SA.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I've heard far stranger things in my life that I know for a fact to be true! but like anything it might not be, seems pretty tame considering some of the things that are acknowledged to go on in SA.

Tame???????

 

[discokermit]

Good of you to admit it, like.

haha! like the bosses would bother!

have you seen black country women? or men? we're bred for work, not looks.

 

[grit]

Tame???????

I have a family member thats done a lot of work as a charity medic over there, rape is an extremely common occurrence (I'd hope its obvious I'm not making light of the act of rape).