Would have missed this Indie article if Dave Cinzano hadn't posted the link earlier up.
It's pretty fucking sickening that members/associates of the Acourt gang got away with all kinds of this sort of shit around that time and later
For what small amount it's worth from me on Eltham. My friends (when new as a couple) lived in some housing asociation flats near the town centre about 10 to 15 years or so years ago and I visited them there at least 4 or 5 times. He was Glaswegian, she Australian, and both found the atmosphere round some places in the town pretty unpleasant and unwelcoming to anyone 'different' or outsider (eg a bit alternative minded/looking, like them, and they were white). Although I only went to pubs there twice with them myself (can't remember which ones sorry), I can't say I saw or heard about much myself, in or out of the pubs, that contradicted their view. And they picked the less bad ones they said ...
I know more than enough personally about pubs across South London to know which ones I don't want to go in, simply from the atmosphere in the street outside. Scarcely welcoming in SE9 I thought ....
And I've drank in shedloads of pubs across Walworth, Rotherhithe, Bermondsey etc South London etc, with S London footy fans and all sorts (I was OK to most because I was 'only' Oxford!
), and I wasn't always all that fussy either sometimes, just avoided the very worst ones.
I wish I could bloody well remember their names, but there were at least two pubs I was warned -- not just by my mates there, others too -- to avoid in Eltham, that looked to me (back then) from the outside at least, as bad or worse as any place I'd avoided elsewhere. Very much not about the beer this!
(at least not only
).
I get more than a bit frustrated by the hint/suggestion that not liking the more thuggish/intimidating pubs, and not liking places (or parts of places) because of that, is somehow demonising or being prejudiced against everyone in that area, all members of the working classes there, etc.
FWIW as well, my friend did a lot of research into the local history of the area (going right back I mean) when he lived there and what he was able to tell me was pretty damned fascinating. So I do know that there's much more about Eltham than the Acourts' circle and like people, I also take the point that plenty of locals reported against people associated with them around that time.
But also at that time, they got away with shitloads of shit it seems, partly I suppose because of intimidation. And obviously Police corruption and incompetence combined.
It's pretty fucking sickening that members/associates of the Acourt gang got away with all kinds of this sort of shit around that time and later
For what small amount it's worth from me on Eltham. My friends (when new as a couple) lived in some housing asociation flats near the town centre about 10 to 15 years or so years ago and I visited them there at least 4 or 5 times. He was Glaswegian, she Australian, and both found the atmosphere round some places in the town pretty unpleasant and unwelcoming to anyone 'different' or outsider (eg a bit alternative minded/looking, like them, and they were white). Although I only went to pubs there twice with them myself (can't remember which ones sorry), I can't say I saw or heard about much myself, in or out of the pubs, that contradicted their view. And they picked the less bad ones they said ...
I know more than enough personally about pubs across South London to know which ones I don't want to go in, simply from the atmosphere in the street outside. Scarcely welcoming in SE9 I thought ....
And I've drank in shedloads of pubs across Walworth, Rotherhithe, Bermondsey etc South London etc, with S London footy fans and all sorts (I was OK to most because I was 'only' Oxford!
), and I wasn't always all that fussy either sometimes, just avoided the very worst ones.I wish I could bloody well remember their names, but there were at least two pubs I was warned -- not just by my mates there, others too -- to avoid in Eltham, that looked to me (back then) from the outside at least, as bad or worse as any place I'd avoided elsewhere. Very much not about the beer this!
(at least not only
).I get more than a bit frustrated by the hint/suggestion that not liking the more thuggish/intimidating pubs, and not liking places (or parts of places) because of that, is somehow demonising or being prejudiced against everyone in that area, all members of the working classes there, etc.
FWIW as well, my friend did a lot of research into the local history of the area (going right back I mean) when he lived there and what he was able to tell me was pretty damned fascinating. So I do know that there's much more about Eltham than the Acourts' circle and like people, I also take the point that plenty of locals reported against people associated with them around that time.
But also at that time, they got away with shitloads of shit it seems, partly I suppose because of intimidation. And obviously Police corruption and incompetence combined.
