Spotify Unwrapped 2021: the shame and the sorrow..

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Spotify is a bad company, there's no denying that - but tbh the current streaming model can't work for musicians, even if they increased the amount they paid: there is a maximum people are prepared to pay for a subscription like this, and it's around £10 per month. There's no way of cutting that pie that pays smaller artists fairly, once fleetwood mac and queen have taken their cut.

I think this is true for as long as there are other services around that will offer similar at that price. There's definitely no market in being the expensive one that pays artists a little better. If a higher minimum payment was enforced though and pushed prices up I think people would still pay, it's probably a minority who'd go 'ten pounds and no more.'

I've been thinking about this in relation to my own listening habits and I think it's the convenience of Spotify as much as the cost that means I use it so much. I'd be prepared to pay more for stuff I enjoy but not at the cost of lots more effort. I'm not sure how to overcome that, I'm not getting in to some self righteous format luddism thing.

 

[Orang Utan]

Same here. I use a soundcloud downloader addon. But I find it easier to sometimes find the stuff I really like at home via soundcloud rather than trawl through 80k odd files on my hard drive, so that list is pretty accurate to where my tastes are currently.

Yeah, I do that too!

 

[Dystopiary]

I've just cancelled my spotify after learning that Daniel Ek (founder) investing 100 million in military AI.
Spotify founder Ek invests 100 million euros - The Times Hub

So what decent alternatives?

That's the problem. Not sure it should be on the consumer either.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Hey NoXion another-still I think!- good way to discover music is through Hype Machine. They post songs that are popular on blogs and stuff, which is a bit different so you tend to get a whole variety of stuff. You like songs on the website and they save them, I think there’s a paying option now but it is still really good for just hearing very absolutely new stuff and the website is still basically what it was 15 years ago.
And bonus point- I hit play on it and came to post here on a prehistoric iPhone and the music is still playing. You tube is not so kind
That’s the last of my posts on this subject haha

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Are music blogs still a thing? I remember years ago there were some I'd regularly discover new music through but they're all long dead and I haven't come across any new ones for over a decade I think. I'd be interested in any good current ones.

 

[HoratioCuthbert]

Are music blogs still a thing? I remember years ago there were some I'd regularly discover new music through but they're all long dead and I haven't come across any new ones for over a decade I think. I'd be interested in any good current ones.

No idea, but the website I mentioned is still functional and last updated it’s tracks 50 mins ago. I’ve hit play and I’m not absolutely hating anything I hear and some are quite good first listen. Do I want to know what the blogger thinks I should think about it? Nah!

 

[killer b]

Are music blogs still a thing? I remember years ago there were some I'd regularly discover new music through but they're all long dead and I haven't come across any new ones for over a decade I think. I'd be interested in any good current ones.

There are blogs, but they're mostly the work of slightly weird(er) obsessive now - I think the discussion and collaboration that used to make the music blogs and forums such a worthwhile resource all happens on twitter these days. That's certainly where I find out about almost all the new music I hear about.

 

[BristolEcho]

Subskt and DnB forum are still going. Not tons of posts but I do drop in every now and again.

 

[AverageJoe]

My top 9 (phone isn't big enough 10 it would seem).

 

[Hollis]

I was investigating royalties payouts during a bout of insomnia last night, and it seems YouTube are the worst of the bunch, with some improvements with Apple, Amazon and Tidal..

This tool is interesting.. stick in how many times you listen to an album and see how much royalties the artist gets..

Royalty Calculator | Music Gateway

If an average price of a CD is £8 and the artist gets 15% royalties, that equals £1.20 to the artist. Per Spotify I'd have to listen to the album about 350 times for the artist to earn that equivalent.

Tidal have a more favourable payout model... but not that great. Also Tidal seems pretty pointless if you mainly listen on a mobile

It seems odd that I can currently order a takeaway on Deliveroo or get an Uber, and I get the choice to tip my driver. Yet there's no way I can 'tip' an artist. - Yeah - I could buy a CD but then 85% of that doesn't go to the artist..

I'd happily pay more if there was a function so that say after listening to an album 10 times I was offered the choice of paying £1.20 royalties directly to the artist.. but I guess that would screw up other commercial vested interests.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

It seems odd that I can currently order a takeaway on Deliveroo or get an Uber, and I get the choice to tip my driver. Yet there's no way I can 'tip' an artist. - Yeah - I could buy a CD but then 85% of that doesn't go to the artist..

I'd happily pay more if there was a function so that say after listening to an album 10 times I was offered the choice of paying £1.20 royalties directly to the artist.. but I guess that would screw up other commercial vested interests.

There is an option for 'tipping directly' on Spotify. I think maybe the artists have to activate it though so you don't see it on all of them.

Something like your second suggestion would be good I think - voluntary donations are never going to add up to the equivalent of actual purchases though.

 

[ska invita]

There is an option for 'tipping directly' on Spotify. I think maybe the artists have to activate it though so you don't see it on all of them.

Something like your second suggestion would be good I think - voluntary donations are never going to add up to the equivalent of actual purchases though.

That's basically what bandcamp does, 3? free listens

 

[BristolEcho]

There is an option for 'tipping directly' on Spotify. I think maybe the artists have to activate it though so you don't see it on all of them.

Something like your second suggestion would be good I think - voluntary donations are never going to add up to the equivalent of actual purchases though.

Is there an argument against this? As similar to Uber and restaurants tips are used to surpress (sp) actual pay? Not against the idea, but think I've seen arguments against tipping before. I suspect the labels would be trying to cream off the top of that too.

I'd probably use it, though if I'm going to do that I might as well buy the album?

 

[killer b]

There are many ways to make small payments directly to the bands you like without spotify having to put special button in tbf.

 

[marty21]

Do musicians do the patreon thing , people pay a monthly fee for 'premium content' ? Seems popular with podcasting/blogging folk.

 

[killer b]

Do musicians do the patreon thing , people pay a monthly fee for 'premium content' ? Seems popular with podcasting/blogging folk.

Some do, and Bandcamp have a subscription thing too - I know a few people who do that, but it's not really ideal for most musicians as if you're paying a monthly sub, you expect monthly content - easy enough for a writer to do but perhaps less so for a band or a musician.

 

[BristolEcho]

Some do, and Bandcamp have a subscription thing too - I know a few people who do that, but it's not really ideal for most musicians as if you're paying a monthly sub, you expect monthly content - easy enough for a writer to do but perhaps less so for a band or a musician.

Yeah that's the main downside of that service for them. Then there's an expectation for more. Also how many artists can you realistically do that for? People must be subscribed up to their eyeballs.

 

[killer b]

Yeah that's the main downside of that service for them. Then there's an expectation for more. Also how many artists can you realistically do that for? People must be subscribed up to their eyeballs.

There's a few issues about the subscription model which makes me think it's not going to work out in the long run - I don't think from a musician's perspective putting huge swathes of your music behind a paywall so only a tiny number of your superfans get to hear it really works in your favour too.

 

[killer b]

really, the simplest and most elegant way to make sure the artists you love are recompensed for making the music you love is to buy albums off them. That doesn't mean you should stop streaming - but you really should all get a bandcamp account too, and buy stuff directly off bands you like.

 

[BristolEcho]

There's a few issues about the subscription model which makes me think it's not going to work out in the long run - I don't think from a musician's perspective putting huge swathes of your music behind a paywall so only a tiny number of your superfans get to hear it really works in your favour too.

Yeah I agree. I guess putting out a special mix every month is cool, but the key reason people do mixes is to keep their name out there.

Agree regarding bandcamp.

 

[marty21]

Some do, and Bandcamp have a subscription thing too - I know a few people who do that, but it's not really ideal for most musicians as if you're paying a monthly sub, you expect monthly content - easy enough for a writer to do but perhaps less so for a band or a musician.

Cheers , that makes sense , not an ideal model for a musician.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Is there an argument against this? As similar to Uber and restaurants tips are used to surpress (sp) actual pay? Not against the idea, but think I've seen arguments against tipping before. I suspect the labels would be trying to cream off the top of that too.

I'd probably use it, though if I'm going to do that I might as well buy the album?

Yeah maybe, although the thing is there's not really any upward pressure on payments without it is there. Artists get the peanuts Spotify offer regardless.

 

[Idaho]

If streaming didn't exist, I'd probably steal a lot more music and listen to more radio. I can't see myself ever going back to buying a record or cd and pressing play for the whole thing.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

really, the simplest and most elegant way to make sure the artists you love are recompensed for making the music you love is to buy albums off them. That doesn't mean you should stop streaming - but you really should all get a bandcamp account too, and buy stuff directly off bands you like.

Yeah I've been thinking that more use of Bandcamp is probably the way to go. I've got a handful of things on there that I don't really listen to but maybe if I build that up a bit it will be what I look to a bit more often.

That said though even buying an album on Bandcamp is essentially a voluntary donation when you can get exactly the same thing on Spotify isn't it. And that's always going to be limited in terms of how much income it can bring in.

 

[Orang Utan]

really, the simplest and most elegant way to make sure the artists you love are recompensed for making the music you love is to buy albums off them. That doesn't mean you should stop streaming - but you really should all get a bandcamp account too, and buy stuff directly off bands you like.

And pay a tenner rather than six quid or whatever.

 

[Hollis]

really, the simplest and most elegant way to make sure the artists you love are recompensed for making the music you love is to buy albums off them. That doesn't mean you should stop streaming - but you really should all get a bandcamp account too, and buy stuff directly off bands you like.

I dunno, it depends if you really want an album, T-shirt or download.. pound for pound - just donating via Spotify or some other platform is an efficient way of donating straight to the artist - if you're got limited money to spend then you avoid stuff like shipping & VAT, so more goes to the artist.

Of course, if you want CDs, t-shirts, downloads then do what you want.

I think where where I can't donate I'll probably buy the odd t-shirt where the artist in question isn't either already dead or minted.