Side-by-side cycling

[maomao]

this is precisely the problem

it is the not seeing them which poses a threat to pedestrians

I'm talking about cyclists on the road so I'm not sure how they're a threat to pedestrians on the pavement. There are also very few places in London dark enough that you can't see an unlit cyclist from fifty yards away when on foot.

 

[gentlegreen]

Is that Starmer?

Grafton Road, NW5 - Google Search

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[Pickman's model]

I'm talking about cyclists on the road so I'm not sure how they're a threat to pedestrians on the pavement. There are also very few places in London dark enough that you can't see an unlit cyclist from fifty yards away when on foot.

even pedestrians cross the roads

and it doesn't have to be particularly dark if you have cars about with their headlights on full

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Side-by-side cycling

Car drivers in this country, and possibly everywhere, are absolutely shit at overtaking stuff in general. Noone but the weird League of Gentlemen teaches it, so people either figure it out themselves, never do it, or do some horrible bodge. Cyclists just experience a milder version of the same...

www.urban75.net

back at ya

Looks like I’d managed to quote the wrong post. All the cycling must have tired me out.

 

[maomao]

even pedestrians cross the roads

and it doesn't have to be particularly dark if you have cars about with their headlights on full

Doesn't really make sense. If there are that many cars about you could only sensibly cross a road at a crossing. If there aren't then you can easily see the cyclist. I can't come up with a configuration of traffic where it is safe to cross the road away from a crossing but there are so many cars that you can't see a cyclist coming.

 

[Pickman's model]

Doesn't really make sense. If there are that many cars about you could only sensibly cross a road at a crossing. If there aren't then you can easily see the cyclist. I can't come up with a configuration of traffic where it is safe to cross the road away from a crossing but there are so many cars that you can't see a cyclist coming.

i suppose i asked too much

 

[maomao]

i suppose i asked too much

Too little more like. You didn't really have a point.

 

[Pickman's model]

Doesn't really make sense. If there are that many cars about you could only sensibly cross a road at a crossing. If there aren't then you can easily see the cyclist. I can't come up with a configuration of traffic where it is safe to cross the road away from a crossing but there are so many cars that you can't see a cyclist coming.

i didn't mention a great number of cars. you brought your own assumptions to bear there.

if you have as is so often the case a few cars at a crossing, a cyclist without lights zipping through a red light, as they so often do, can creep up unawares.

 

[maomao]

i didn't mention a great number of cars. you brought your own assumptions to bear there.

if you have as is so often the case a few cars at a crossing, a cyclist without lights zipping through a red light, as they so often do, can creep up unawares.

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[Pickman's model]

Doesn't really make sense. If there are that many cars about you could only sensibly cross a road at a crossing. If there aren't then you can easily see the cyclist. I can't come up with a configuration of traffic where it is safe to cross the road away from a crossing but there are so many cars that you can't see a cyclist coming.

it doesn't make sense if you're not prepared to put a modicum of thought into it. if you're standing for example on the side of the road, you look to your right, you look to your left, and if one way you get a blast of headlights the chances of you then seeing a cyclist without lights are diminished. leaving aside the issue of evening and night vision, when people prepare to cross the road in the dark, they will look for approaching hazards with lights - cars, buses, police vans etc. they may not focus on hazards without lights - and why should they, when the highway code is so clear on the matter? if, as beesonthewhatnow tells us, cyclists want to reach their destination alive, surely they should equip themselves with the necessary safety equipment for that. not endless sorts of body armour, just a simple set of cycle lamps ought to prevent many accidents.

 

[maomao]

it doesn't make sense if you're not prepared to put a modicum of thought into it. if you're standing for example on the side of the road, you look to your right, you look to your left, and if one way you get a blast of headlights the chances of you then seeing a cyclist without lights are diminished. leaving aside the issue of evening and night vision, when people prepare to cross the road in the dark, they will look for approaching hazards with lights - cars, buses, police vans etc. they may not focus on hazards without lights - and why should they, when the highway code is so clear on the matter? if, as beesonthewhatnow tells us, cyclists want to reach their destination alive, surely they should equip themselves with the necessary safety equipment for that. not endless sorts of body armour, just a simple set of cycle lamps ought to prevent many accidents.

I'll address your concerns once Spymaster has won my bet and proved the existence of large numbers of people cycling without lights on the roads of London.

 

[gentlegreen]

Based on the insane level of lights used by cyclists on the local shared path, I struggle to imagine many cyclists are still riding without lights on the roads.

 

[maomao]

Based on the insane level of lights used by cyclists on the local shared path, I struggle to imagine many cyclists are still riding without lights on the roads.

There are genuninely very few. You get the odd teenager pavement hopping their way to a mate's house without lights but it's almost unknown amongst commuting cyclists. And the last time I saw a cyclist going through a red light without lights on it was probably myself reflected in a shop window sometime in the 90s. The kind of cyclist who is riding around unlit is more likely to hop a pavement or use a pedestrian crossing to get round a junction than ride through the middle of it.

 

[Spymaster]

I'll address your concerns once Spymaster has won my bet and proved the existence of large numbers of people cycling without lights on the roads of London.

So let's start with this. Just popped out for some bagels and was immediately rewarded with this.

It's not properly dark yet so I'll give him that but it is raining and poor visibility and the cars were on dipped beam. Dude on the left doesn't even have lights on his bike, let alone lit. This particular cock-rocket has also stopped a yard in front of the ASL and traffic light and has his front wheel on the pedestrian crossing strip.



That was within 3 minutes of walking out. Much more to come!

 

[TopCat]

It's less effort for more speed. Win win.

You cant stop in the distance you can see to be clear. This is hazardous and contrary to the highway code.

 

[maomao]

So let's start with this. Just popped out for some bagels and was immediately rewarded with this.

It's not properly dark yet so I'll give him that but it is raining and poor visibility and the cars were on dipped beam. Dude on the left doesn't even have lights on his bike, let alone lit. This particular cock-rocket has also stopped a yard in front of the ASL and traffic light and has his front wheel on the pedestrian crossing strip.

View attachment 236116

That was within 3 minutes of walking out. Much more to come!

Bicycles are only required to have lights on at night. Highway Code rule 60. They're not even required to be carrying lights during the day. This photo was taken at lunchtime.

I personally wouldn't wait on the pedestrian crossing but it's the same level of carelessness as cars in the ASL which you have regularly defended on these boards. Save your battery for some night shots.

 

[Spymaster]

Bicycles are only required to have lights on at night. Highway Code rule 60. They're not even required to be carrying lights during the day. This photo was taken at lunchtime.

I personally wouldn't wait on the pedestrian crossing but it's the same level of carelessness as cars in the ASL which you have regularly defended on these boards. Save your battery for some night shots.

I haven't defended stopping in the ASB but pointed out that sometimes it's possible to get stuck in them when traffic moves forwards and then stops unexpectedly. That's actually not illegal. In the photo above BOTH cyclists have crossed the stop line and are breaking the law. The one on the right is at least showing (derisory) lights in poor visibilty.

 

[Idaho]

This particular cock-rocket has also stopped a yard in front of the ASL and traffic light and has his front wheel on the pedestrian crossing strip.

I'll bet you and your BMW/Audi brethren have never stopped behind one of those lines in your life. German car drivers are almost always half a car over those.

 

[Pickman's model]

I'll bet you and your BMW/Audi brethren have never stopped behind one of those lines in your life. German car drivers are almost always half a car over those.

Spymaster is not german.

 

[likesfish]

Where?

Section 51

 

[Spymaster]

I'll bet you and your BMW/Audi brethren have never stopped behind one of those lines in your life. German car drivers are almost always half a car over those.

Here we go.

Yeah, but, but, but .... cars

 

[Spymaster]

.

 

[platinumsage]

So let's start with this. Just popped out for some bagels and was immediately rewarded with this.

It's not properly dark yet so I'll give him that but it is raining and poor visibility and the cars were on dipped beam. Dude on the left doesn't even have lights on his bike, let alone lit. This particular cock-rocket has also stopped a yard in front of the ASL and traffic light and has his front wheel on the pedestrian crossing strip.

View attachment 236116

That was within 3 minutes of walking out. Much more to come!

They have both proceeded beyond the stop line and so are both guilty of an offence.

 

[platinumsage]

I'll bet you and your BMW/Audi brethren have never stopped behind one of those lines in your life. German car drivers are almost always half a car over those.

Cars are of course required to stop in the cycle box in numerous scenarios, for example if it wasn't safe to stop at the first line or the lights change after they crossed the first line. In such cases it would be an offence for them to carry on and leave the box empty for cyclists.

 

[maomao]

They have both proceeded beyond the stop line and so are both guilty of an offence.

But neither of them is guilty of the offence we were discussing.

Cyclists feeling safer in front of other traffic at lights is why ASLs were brought in.

 

[Spymaster]

They have both proceeded beyond the stop line and so are both guilty of an offence.

I know. They should have their cycles ground to filings and be made to snort them.

 

[Spymaster]

But neither of them is guilty of the offence we were discussing.

Oh well that's alright then.

Cyclists feeling safer in front of other traffic at lights is why ASLs were brought in.

And if they were in the box behind the stop line they'd be in front of the other traffic and not breaking the law!

 

[maomao]

Oh well that's alright then.

And if they were in the box behind the stop line they'd be in front of the other traffic and not breaking the law!

The one on the right hasn't crossed the line. It doesn't say 'no part of your bike must cross it'

 

[platinumsage]

I know. They should have their cycles ground to filings and be made to snort them.

That’s a bit harsh, some restorative justice involving them being required to drive a SUV around London for a week should suffice.

 

[platinumsage]

The one on the right hasn't crossed the line. It doesn't say 'no part of your bike must cross it'

I suggest you investigate the wording of the law a bit more carefully.