Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I would feel a bit uncomfortable describing myself as such, but is it unwise to feel this?
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Should men describe themselves as feminists, if they are supportive of feminism?
- Thread starter Orang Utan
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Treacle Toes
Time
I don't think it's unwise. What is it you don't like about the term?
Ideally we wouldn't need such terms. I don't describe myself as a feminist, I just am one. Actions/behaviour speak louder and are more meaningful than words.
Ideally we wouldn't need such terms. I don't describe myself as a feminist, I just am one. Actions/behaviour speak louder and are more meaningful than words.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
is unwise to feel this
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I don't dislike anything about the term.
Treacle Toes
Time
I don't dislike anything about the term.
Okay...so what feels wrong about describing yourself as one?
story
Changing the facts
A fella I know keeps spouting and proclaiming about stuff and justifies it by stating that he's proud to be a feminist. He's sometimes arguing with actual women when he does this.
Every time it happens, I think "Well I'm not sure that you are a feminist... And I wonder if any man can really claim to be one... One the other hand, why can't / shouldn't a man be a feminist...? Is it sexist to say that a man can't sufficiently understand or appreciate the female perspective?"
So to sum up, I don't know, but I'd be interested to know what others think.
Every time it happens, I think "Well I'm not sure that you are a feminist... And I wonder if any man can really claim to be one... One the other hand, why can't / shouldn't a man be a feminist...? Is it sexist to say that a man can't sufficiently understand or appreciate the female perspective?"
So to sum up, I don't know, but I'd be interested to know what others think.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
cos i'm not a woman. it feels like stepping on toes.
story
Changing the facts
Because women are in some kind of ghetto? Or have some kind of rarified and separate experience of life?
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
no, not at all.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
what then?
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
I think it often seems like blokes are trying too hard when they say that tbh. And yep what story said. I love when men declare themselves feminists and proceed to tell me how to be a feminist
No real objection tho, but a man really doesnt have to declare himself one imo.
No real objection tho, but a man really doesnt have to declare himself one imo.
story
Changing the facts
I'm not saying that you do think that, but saying that men shouldn't identify as feminists because it "feels like stepping on toes" makes it sound as if women are too different, or something.
story
Changing the facts
I think it often seems like blokes are trying too hard when they say that tbh. And yep what story said. I love when men declare themselves feminists and proceed to tell me how to be a feminist
No real objection tho, but a man really doesnt have to declare himself one imo.
Yeah, try-hard.
It feels less odd if men say "I support feminism" rather than "I am a feminist".
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
fwiw i wouldn't describe ou as a feminist
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
I'm just conscious that some feminists may be ideologically opposed to men declaring themselves to be feminists. or not even opposed, just mistrustful, as highlighted above.
Orang Utan
Psychick Worrier Ov Geyoor
perhaps i should have asked: can a man be a feminist?
stethoscope
Well-Known Member
In feminist groups I've had involvement with in the past, the terms for supportive men tended to be 'pro-feminist' or 'feminist ally'. Though I'm not precious personally if a man calls himself a feminist, what is more important is respecting and listening to women's experiences and voices first and foremost (rather than dominating them).
RubyToogood
RubyTwobikes
I hope you'd feel you could describe yourself as an anti-racist though.
RubyToogood
RubyTwobikes
Actually, I think this kind of illustrates the problem somewhat. A man saying "I am a feminist" may have a tendency to sound suspiciously like "I am not sexist" as opposed to "I am against sexism". But really the word does only mean that you support equality, so why can't a man use it of himself?
8ball
Decolonise colons!
This.
And the fact that some male self-described feminists I've known have frankly been a bit ropey.
I'd hope that any human being can be one.
8ball
Decolonise colons!
Would the same logic apply to someone describing themselves as anti-racist?
RubyToogood
RubyTwobikes
That's my point, no I don't think it does.
ShiftyBagLady
Thinks she is a flower to be looked at
I see no problem whatsoever with men saying that they are feminists, or pro-feminist. In fact, I'd say that it's a positive thing as I don't see feminism as gender exclusive. To my mind it is an inclusive term and my feminism takes into account male experience of patriarchy and their subjectivity as well as womens'.
I dislike the term feminist ally as it seems to ghettoise feminism. And it just grates on me, tbh.
I dislike the term feminist ally as it seems to ghettoise feminism. And it just grates on me, tbh.
Yossarian
⏭️
How do you define a feminist?
The dictionary says it's somebody who believes men and women should have equal rights, which means everybody who isn't a complete sexist bigot can call themselves a feminist.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
ally lol does that one predate the rise of intersectionalist language
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
If you want to describe yourself as a feminist, by all means go ahead. It's your actions that are more important, imo.
If you call yourself a feminist and then shit all over women by trying to tell them you're doing feminism better than them and they'd really better just listen to what you have to say, you're being a dick.
If you call yourself a feminist and you aim to support women, by listening to them and trying to understand and doing what you can to stop other men being wankers then that speaks volumes more.
If you call yourself a feminist and then shit all over women by trying to tell them you're doing feminism better than them and they'd really better just listen to what you have to say, you're being a dick.
If you call yourself a feminist and you aim to support women, by listening to them and trying to understand and doing what you can to stop other men being wankers then that speaks volumes more.
Vintage Paw
dead stare and computer glare
Intersectionalism gets a harsh rap (round these parts, definitely). At its heart, it's an academic term to describe how it's more fruitful to understand how the different ways in which the state works on people intersect, rather than viewing every struggle as separate and therefore risking further division.
In practice, it's used a lot in inelegant ways by people who aren't very politically minded. But isn't everything?
For example, bell hooks writing Ain't I A Woman? = intersectionalist. That's all it is, really. An invitation to nuance in a world that increasingly packages us off into neat little boxes with precise labels in an attempt to 1) get us to buy stuff that reaffirms those labels that gets us to buy more stuff that reaffirms those labels..., and 2) erase the common root of our struggles so we see ourselves as forever in opposition to one another, instead of recognising how the same system utilises the same power in different ways on each of us, sometimes in different ways at different times, sometimes in multiple ways at the same time.
My post in the IWD thread that described examples of intersectionality got a lot of likes and positive replies. I wonder if it's just the label people don't like?
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