Selling Out: Where is the line crossed?

[Orang Utan]

I'm sorry you've had a bad day, but the 'serious stuff' you mentioned was written to mitigate the opprobrium you percieve you are receiving for 'selling out', something which you already had ventured yourself. If that's not what self-justification is, I don't know what is. I don't think there's much opprobrium at all, you're hardly Nicholas Von Hoogstraten, you've just received a few small tuts (and giggles) from a few corners at your earnest attempts to distance yourself from something you had already voluntarily admitted.

 

[William of Walworth]

The opprobrium was surely overdone given the real-life circumstances at the time -- it takes a lot of risk to leave London after 27 years of living there.

Not all of those details were known, either then or now.

 

[Orang Utan]

But there wasn't any opprobrium, just mild rolling eyes at your self- justification (which I note you are continuing to do)

 

[rich!]

Bringing a beef into an unrelated thread.

 

[William of Walworth]

But there wasn't any opprobrium, just mild rolling eyes at your self- justification (which I note you are continuing to do)

I'm not 'justifying' anything, as I've already said.

 

[William of Walworth]

Bringing a beef into an unrelated thread.

Looking like that to me too.

 

[Orang Utan]

Looking like that to me too.

he wasn't talking about that. just an example of selling out. at least i think that's what he's referring to.

 

[scifisam]

sparklefish killer b

This following is just context. I'm not going to attempt to defend what I did as such, because it's not defensible.

But you might? have forgotten that the sublet thing lasted not for very long at all -- less than 5 months as it turned out.

At the time, I had little to no confidence**, at all, about whether or not my moving to Swansea would work out, relationship wise.

**(far less confidence than I should have had really, given how well it's worked out by now, but still, this was back then! .... )

Don't forget also, that I'd resigned, after almost 20 years, from a well paid/permanent/secure job in London to follow my love dream -- being unemployed for 18 months was one of the (admittedly far less important) consequences.

For several of those months I had no money at all (the hours were great mindyou ) because signing on was only possible for a limited part of that time -- Deb knew the DWP rules.

What you/others may not remember from the previous monstering I got about this a few years ago, a fair bit of which was done by people on here who at the time hated me anyway (who started the call-out-of-me thread about it back then? Not me!) is that the unofficial sublet plan was never, at any point, intended to be permanent.

I never felt great (to say the least) about doing it at all, and I knew all along that OK, yes, it was shitty and, yes, utterly wrong. Illegal too, all that. I could apologise if asked, but what would that achieve?

But please look a bit beyond that less-than-5-months period can you? Please? I gave the keys back to the Council did I not? Not expecting congratulations or anything stupid for that, because that was what what I'd always intended to do anyway. The returning of the keys happened a little (and I really do mean a little!) earlier than intended is all, and I'm glad (now) that it did, because the Council got the flat back (main thing).

Debbie was massively supportive, principally emotionally (but also financially), at the time.

Well I've moved on a tad now, and the Council have had the flat back since early (March or at latest April I think) 2009. Perhaps moving on's worth doing for others, if anyone's still happens to be pissed off with me about it.

It was a stupid error of judgement I made over six years ago ....

Why didn't you just sublet it legally? You're allowed to for short periods for reasons exactly like yours. There's nothing wrong with it morally or legally as long as you ask the landlord first.

 

[Orang Utan]

I'm not 'justifying' anything, as I've already said.

you said you were trying to provide some context to your selling out. that's justifying it.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

But you brought it up, William. You can't have a go at people for commenting on something you brought up yourself, which is all I see here.

 

[William of Walworth]

Why didn't you just sublet it legally? You're allowed to for short periods for reasons exactly like yours. There's nothing wrong with it morally or legally as long as you ask the landlord first.

My particular Council specifically banned this route at the time, I'd have to dig out my old rent agreement to be 100% about that but I'm nearly sure. I think? that was unusual amongst London Councils though.

 

[William of Walworth]

But you brought it up, William. You can't have a go at people for commenting on something you brought up yourself, which is all I see here.

I acknowledged that in an earlier post-- you're right it wasn't the most sensible thing for me to mention (for the first time in about six years mind!)

My point was more about the harshness of the criticism, hence my attempt to provide some context which I'm not sure people were aware of. At least that provided Orang Utan with some amusement.

 

[Orang Utan]

Where was this harsh criticism? I think the harshest is probably in your own mind.

 

[William of Walworth]

I'll be out for the day, bit I've deleted my most abusive post to you from last night. I apologise for that now Orang Utan

The criticism was quite harsh IMO, but mostly it was memory of the stick I got back then that pissed me off most.

 

[Orang Utan]

I'll be out for the day, bit I've deleted my most abusive post to you from last night. I apologise for that now Orang Utan

The criticism was quite harsh IMO, but mostly it was memory of the stick I got back then that pissed me off most.

The harshest thing said was sparklefish saying it was shitty behaviour to sublet. And killer b agreed. But so did you! No one else said anything. The most amount said about it was from you, in which you said it was indefensible, even if you continued on to defend it.

 

[Santino]

I'll be out for the day, bit I've deleted my most abusive post to you from last night. I apologise for that now Orang Utan

The criticism was quite harsh IMO, but mostly it was memory of the stick I got back then that pissed me off most.

I wanted to read that bit.

 

[Looby]

I wanted to read that bit.

There was some fucking and some cunt iirc. Much harsher than 'it's shitty' which is the extent of the awful treatment that was inflicted on William.

 

[Looby]

I'll be out for the day, bit I've deleted my most abusive post to you from last night. I apologise for that now Orang Utan

The criticism was quite harsh IMO, but mostly it was memory of the stick I got back then that pissed me off most.

This is everything I said ffs.

It absolutely does. I'm sure William has had a bit of stick about it in the past so I'm surprised he's dragged it up again. Depriving someone else on the waiting list of a home whilst living elsewhere is really shitty.

Er, if you sublet, you're not depriving anyone else of a home.

Yeah, I just edited. [emoji1] I meant he'd deprived someone on the housing waiting list. He'd moved to Wales ffs, he wasn't on a long holiday.

 

[Santino]

There was some fucking and some cunt iirc. Much harsher than 'it's shitty' which is the extent of the awful treatment that was inflicted on William.

Shame he couldn't take full ownership of it.

 

[Looby]

[emoji1]

 

[Kaka Tim]

Hard to beat this for a historical example - .

 

[Orang Utan]

How about Chumbawamba signing to EMI? That was seen as unforgivable to many of their peers and fans

 

[Sue]

Or Dylan going electric...?

 

[Maurice Picarda]

I recall that at the end of the 80s, once-loved indie guitar bands would experiment with dance beats and we would speak with venom of them having "gone baggy".

 

[ViolentPanda]

Why didn't you just sublet it legally? You're allowed to for short periods for reasons exactly like yours. There's nothing wrong with it morally or legally as long as you ask the landlord first.

William was in Southwark, renting from Southwark Council, and if they're anything like Lambeth Council, then getting permission to legally-sublet can be a pretty wearing experience, as they send you all round the houses to try to deter you.

 

[FiFi]

How about Chumbawamba signing to EMI? That was seen as unforgivable to many of their peers and fans

When I saw them live a few years ago they spoke about it as their "sell out phase" and had some funny stories about how the company managed their tour.

 

[Sasaferrato]

What about if, say, there was a scholarship?

...or a 75% discount for children of staff?

There was a scheme where bright children could attend the top public schools, it was called the Assisted Places Scheme. It was abolished by that revolting cuntish piece of shit, Blair. He went to Fettes of course. Can't have the plebs well educated can we? Only the socialist elite.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Collection is a necessary consequence of debts. Unfair and exploitative lending practices are the more important issue.

I work in Debt Management for HMRC. On running my 'end of year' figures recently, I put more than a million quid into the public coffers.

 

[Orang Utan]

There was a scheme where bright children could attend the top public schools, it was called the Assisted Places Scheme. It was abolished by that revolting cuntish piece of shit, Blair. He went to Fettes of course. Can't have the plebs well educated can we? Only the socialist elite.

Eh? Surely the assisted places scheme was a divisive scheme that was rightly abolished? Crumbs from the table from schools that should not exist in a fair society.

 

[Santino]

I work in Debt Management for HMRC. On running my 'end of year' figures recently, I put more than a million quid into the public coffers.

If you add that to the million that the people you contacted put in, that makes 2 million!