gosub
~#
If you can't handle 12 hours rain in a month there's nowhere you'd want to live I wouldBad luck fella.
You confirm my earlier point
Scottish independence - as an Englishman, am I "wrong" not to give a crap?
- Thread starter ca-nami
- Start date
Hardcore!! 
weltweit
Well-Known Member
If Scotland becomes independent, their constituencies will not send MPs to Westminster any more. Scotland is staunchly labour which means the labour vote will be reduced. Basically if Scotland goes independent, the likelihood of a tory government in Westminster increases.
That is just one reason someone English might care about Scottish independence. Another is the size and general importance of Britain / the UK in the world. The UK will be diminished if Scotland leaves.
That is just one reason someone English might care about Scottish independence. Another is the size and general importance of Britain / the UK in the world. The UK will be diminished if Scotland leaves.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
what?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
That effect is overstated. Labour would still have won without Scotland in 97, 01 and 05.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Ok, but there is an effect at some level no?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
And if Wales leaves as well .....
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
Post #7. Then post #20.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Not enough to have changed the election result in Blair's three wins. Before that, we had tories for two decades, and going back further to the 50s, Scotland was as tory as anywhere.
As I said, the effect is overstated.
As I said, the effect is overstated.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
And Yorkshire, perhaps, too. And all the other Labour bits of the UK?
If England were only the home counties, then yes, Labour would be in trouble.
Scotland is less than 10 per cent of the UK. Wales is less than 5 per cent.
Maurice Picarda
Actually, might as well flounce.
That could never, ever happen. Scotland is a pretty crap country but it's still a country. Wales stops being an economically viable self-governing entity at the point when settled agriculture is invented.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
You facepalmed in #125 about something said in #7 and #20??
weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
I facepalmed at you coming in and repeating something which has already been explained to be wrong. On the first page of the thread.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Have their own language ...
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Oh ... that wasn't clear
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
English is the main language in Wales.
Maurice Picarda
Actually, might as well flounce.
Well, there's a link to a blog, which makes two points: firstly, Scottish Labour MPs are offset by others, so their contribution to a majority isn't as big as you might think, and secondly, majorities have been big enough in the past for them not to have made a substantial difference.
Given that the trend is towards more seats for smaller parties and independents, that's not a knockdown argument against suggestions that Scottish Labour MPs could make a significant difference in 2015 or 2020.
So the treatment Weltweit is getting from the woad-smeared shouty lot is unfair.
weltweit
Well-Known Member
As it happens, I lived in Wales a while ..
Try trying to get work in various sectors ... without being a welsh speaker.
eta. or getting an education without learning welsh
Maurice Picarda
Actually, might as well flounce.
As do the Cornish. And Geordies.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I lived there for the first 19 years of my life.
One in five people in Wales speak Welsh. In the bit I'm from, Gwent, make that about one in 50.
I agree, but with qualifications.
That simplistic point that weltweit made has been explained earlier in the thread as being very open to dispute and contradiction, with some electoral statistics that do appear to oppose it.
Still, the perpetual Tory dominance fear for S of the border has not been conclusively proved to be wrong That link that geminisnake posted way back (and to a blog!), was from someone who very definitely had a dog of his own in this fight.
I lived there for the first 19 years of my life.
In Swansea, 1 in 100 .....
(rough guess. But it's a highly anglicised place)
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Ok..I lived there for the first 19 years of my life.
My understanding now is that kids going to school in wales, learn welsh and many schools teach all subjects in welsh rather than English. Now I don't know exactly which schools, or what proportion of schools ...
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The argument can't be made from history, though. The meaningful history, ie the last 40 years, shows that the UK minus Scotland would have had the same general election result every time. History older than that isn't really relevant. Go back to the 50s and the Tories polled 50 per cent in Scotland.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
You've got Llanelli up the road. Welsh has strongholds, mostly in the north.In Swansea, 1 in 100 .....
(rough guess. But it's a highly anglicised place)
Maurice Picarda
Actually, might as well flounce.
Any GE results earlier than 2015's are not meaningful; no UKIP and a different view of the LDs.
littlebabyjesus
I'm more thinking about NOW to be honest, but my only real point is that this particular subject (Tory domination of England/Wales threat? Crap or Not Crap?) is still highly debatable.
I'm more thinking about NOW to be honest, but my only real point is that this particular subject (Tory domination of England/Wales threat? Crap or Not Crap?) is still highly debatable.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes, all schools teach Welsh now. They didn't when I was at school - it's changed. There are Welsh-language schools in certain parts of Wales, but these are totally absent from many parts because there isn't a demand for them. I have no problem with this at all - it is similar to the Basque country in this regard in that the Welsh-language schools tend to have good progressive principles, as the Basque-language schools in the Basque country do. But most Welsh people do not speak Welsh. A very large majority don't.
Most Basque people don't speak Basque either, fwiw, and Wales has as much chance of independence as the Basque country - zero.
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