littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
More so than the last 40 years? Why would you think that?
Scottish independence - as an Englishman, am I "wrong" not to give a crap?
- Thread starter ca-nami
- Start date
More so than the last 40 years? Why would you think that?
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I didn't often hear welsh spoken while I lived there. I did hear of various jobs that basically went to welsh speakers. Jobs in S4C for example.
I recall arriving at a festival in West Wales, walking into a bar with folk chatting happily in English. When I ordered a drink and it became apparent I was English their conversation switched seamlessly into welsh. I found that quite rude.
I recall arriving at a festival in West Wales, walking into a bar with folk chatting happily in English. When I ordered a drink and it became apparent I was English their conversation switched seamlessly into welsh. I found that quite rude.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Jobs in S4C, the Welsh-language tv channel? 
Well I never.
Well I never.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I recall arriving at a festival in West Wales, walking into a bar with folk chatting happily in English. When I ordered a drink and it became apparent I was English their conversation switched seamlessly into welsh. I found that quite rude.
I've heard of this happening. Bits of West Wales and bits of North Wales are quite heavily Welsh-speaking. But these are pockets, and you might have noticed when you were in West Wales that are not actually very many people there.
You could live in Newport, a big town, and be there for months or years without hearing a word of Welsh.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The point is the switch. I've not witnessed it myself, but I've heard of that before.
There is another side to that - where, for instance, a committee has to switch to English to accommodate the one member who doesn't speak Welsh. I can understand how that would piss people off. There sometimes are not good solutions.
I recall arriving at a festival in West Wales, walking into a bar with folk chatting happily in English. When I ordered a drink and it became apparent I was English their conversation switched seamlessly into welsh. I found that quite rude.
Are you sure that this really happened? I've been a Welshman for over forty years now and I've never once witnessed this occur, despite the urban myth among the English that this happens all the time (despite the fact that most Welsh people are Anglophones).
weltweit
Well-Known Member
I used to live in Cardiff and work in the valleys.
I wasn't a parent back then, I understand welsh is now taught at school. tbh as an English person I don't want my offspring to learn welsh, not enough speakers of it, Spanish, German, Chinese, Japanese certainly as they are widely spoken and will probably bring real opportunities but sorry, not welsh, nor latin!
weltweit
Well-Known Member
Yes, it definitely happened.
It made me cross because I had just been living in Germany and Germans would not dream of doing something like that. Instead if they realised you were English they would be more likely to stop speaking German and switch to English so they could include you. Not so the folk at this festival.
Don't get me wrong, it only happened once in perhaps 4-5 years of living in Wales. I like Wales and enjoyed living there, nice place, nice people, great beaches!
Nylock
I hate 'these days'...
William of Walworth, Swansea has not always been as anglicised as you claim and, coming from the upper Swansea valley myself, that part of the country outside the city has always been a bit of a welsh language stronghold. For instance my grandfather's generation was technically bilingual but spoke welsh given the choice (and that's pretty much everyone of his age), my father's generation was more mixed but still fluent and my generation more 'anglicised' than the previous ones but i'd say around 75% of people of my generation in the area speak welsh to at least conversational level with most of that number still being fluent in the language. The local primary school was welsh, then became bilingual in the 1970's but with most kids speaking welsh and of the two comprehensive schools in the area; one is bilingual and one is welsh language only. This is pretty typical for south west and west wales (or at least the bit of it I am familiar with)...
Not quite sure how a discussion about the welsh language fits into a scottish independence thread but wth, it's urbans innit
Not quite sure how a discussion about the welsh language fits into a scottish independence thread but wth, it's urbans innit
Nylock
I hate 'these days'...
It happened to me and my dad when we were in Holyhead, we went into a pub and ordered pints in English and when the locals switched, so did we... There were some embarrassed faces at the bar when they realised we understood every word of what was said when they mistakenly assumed us to be just another couple of anglophones from the south
But tbh, it only happened the once in my entire lifetimes experience of wales -and typically it was a bunch of fucking gogs getting all uppity
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I've met you. You do sound Welsh. Maybe people just don't know what to listen for. Most people don't pick up on me being Welsh. It comes out a bit when I've been back visiting my folks or sometimes when I'm annoyed.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
What I wanted to say that
I can't help but think of a general briefing Hitler here 'oh its all good they've got millions of men but the gear is laughable'
what happens when they are climbing over the mountains of dead and won't stop coming?
I can't help but think of a general briefing Hitler here 'oh its all good they've got millions of men but the gear is laughable'
what happens when they are climbing over the mountains of dead and won't stop coming?
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I've only ventured into North Wales once, but I did pick up on a bit of hostility when I was there. It does happen.But tbh, it only happened the once in my entire lifetimes experience of wales -and typically it was a bunch of fucking gogs getting all uppity
I've met you. You do sound Welsh. Maybe people just don't know what to listen for. Most people don't pick up on me being Welsh. It comes out a bit when I've been back visiting my folks or sometimes when I'm annoyed.
I definitely think it's only other Welshers who can hear it, you sounded welshy to me too but I don't think others would pick up on it
It happened to me and my dad when we were in Holyhead, we went into a pub and ordered pints in English and when the locals switched, so did we... There were some embarrassed faces at the bar when they realised we understood every word of what was said when they mistakenly assumed us to be just another couple of anglophones from the south
But tbh, it only happened the once in my entire lifetimes experience of wales -and typically it was a bunch of fucking gogs getting all uppity
Apologies for doubting you weltweit , this obviously does happen, but its okay because it's the Gogs, and we all know what they're like
Nylock
I hate 'these days'...
One of my best mates is from the north (Dolgellau). She's sound as fuck but really blunt and she reckons it's because it's pretty tough up there so it produces people that are 'no-nonsense' and that can come across as inhospitable to us southern jessies
.DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
I did once do a delivery to wales, as a drivers mate. First thing in the morning phone call 'can you pal up with this driver' so yes I said. Quick wash with a hand towel on the pits n bits then I throw on the nearest clean t shirt. Its a fucking england T which I thought nothing of till the loading bay staff jeered at me 'ooooh lad yer taking the mick' etc
I don't even like football or nationalism or wales or england. Leave me alone man.
I don't even like football or nationalism or wales or england. Leave me alone man.
DownwardDog
Riding a Brompton with a power meter.
In my experience people have respect and/or fear for the Soviet/Russian armed forces in inverse proportion to the amount of time they've been exposed to them. Having met, worked with and eventually become friends with ex Sov/Russian mil I have no fear and a only a modicum of respect. They can easily win any bout of Organisational Dysfunction Top Trumps that ex mil types love to engage in.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
you never faced them in anger though. Shiny death plane is shiny, but if the bastards just keepcoming...
free spirit
more tea vicar?
I went and found it, but only coz I like you
danny's post from the indy thread in the Scotland/Alba forum.
That's not true, though, as has been pointed out several times during the thread. The thing to remember is that Scotland only returns a tiny proportion of the UK's MPs; in 2015, the number of Scottish MPs will be 52 out of 600. That's 8.66%. And although Scotland only returned one Tory last time, not all of its other MPs are Labour: there are also SNP and Lib Dems. Indeed, those Lib Dems actually contributed to putting David Cameron into number 10 last time.
When Blair came to power in 1997, his majority was 179. Without Scottish MPs he'd still have had his majority (even if all of Scotland’s MPs were Labour, which they weren't).
Here are the stats again:
http://wingsland.podgamer.com/why-labour-doesnt-need-scotland/
This is based on a pretty misleading interpretation of the Feb 1974 election, which would have looked like this without Scotland.
Labour : 301 - 40 = 261
Conservative : 297 - 21 = 276
Liberal : 14 - 3 = 11
SNP : 7 - 7 = 0
UUP : 7 - 0 = 7
Plaid : 2 - 0 = 2
DUP : 1 - 0 = 1
Others : 6 - 0 = 6
Conservatives would have had 15 more MPs than Labour without Scotland, instead of Labour having 4 more than the Conservatives.
If the Conservatives and the Unionists had been able to come to an agreement, they'd have had a majority of 4 between them, and even without their full support the conservatives would have probably formed a minority government with only a minority of 6.
So it's pretty likely that the Scottish MPs made the difference between a Tory vs a Labour government in 1974, so we could have had the Tories in power continuously from 1974 to 1994.
Also, without Scotland we'd have had a tory majority government at the last election.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Kingdom_general_election,_February_1974
http://www.politicsresources.net/area/uk/ge74a/seats74a.htm
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
free spirit
more tea vicar?
and well, fuck it, if you're going to ignore the main bulk of my post, then I can't be arsed to respond tbh.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
I got that wrong before, we'd have had a continuous tory government from 1970-1994.
This obviously assumes that other election results didn't change, which probably wouldn't have been the case in reality as that election change could have had all sorts of knock on effects into the future.
This obviously assumes that other election results didn't change, which probably wouldn't have been the case in reality as that election change could have had all sorts of knock on effects into the future.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I'm not. You mentioned two elections. The outcome of the second - the most recent - is one that you seem to think would have been worse without Scotland. I absolutely question that. I question that so fucking much. This fucking government. This one. You're saying that it's better for not being a tory majority govt? Really?
free spirit
more tea vicar?
oh fuck off, I said none of this, I just stated the electoral fact that we'd have had a tory majority government rather than a coalition.
Similar threads
