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Save up so you can be sick

Obviously the Welfare State needs to prevent people from starving. But it needs to do so much more. What does it need to do? What should its constitution be? When welfare is under attack from all fronts I can't help thinking it needs a stronger philosophical basis from the base up.

"All fronts" misrepresents the situation a bit. "All major party-political fronts", perhaps.

And also one that commands broad social acceptance and is somehow neutral between socialism and benevolent capitalism. The Welfare State grew incrementally and it is being chipped away incrementally. It needs some kind of strong deep base.
There is no "benevolent capitalism", just capitalism - anything else is easily-disposable window dressing. There is no "third way" between socialism and "the market". There is no mechanism by which we (the electorate) can bring about a Welfare State that serves people rather than corporations because the last thing the political class wants is the likes of us exercising power to serve our needs, rather than the whims of capitalism.
 
"All fronts" misrepresents the situation a bit. "All major party-political fronts", perhaps.


There is no "benevolent capitalism", just capitalism - anything else is easily-disposable window dressing. There is no "third way" between socialism and "the market". There is no mechanism by which we (the electorate) can bring about a Welfare State that serves people rather than corporations because the last thing the political class wants is the likes of us exercising power to serve our needs, rather than the whims of capitalism.

I totally get the fact that the extent and nature of the Welfare State is a highly political issue. But surely there is a way that it can be depoliticised so it becomes less of a political football? The Welfare State is too important for politics it affects people's real lives.
 
I totally get the fact that the extent and nature of the Welfare State is a highly political issue. But surely there is a way that it can be depoliticised so it becomes less of a political football? The Welfare State is too important for politics it affects people's real lives.

The problem is that because the roots of the welfare state were very much political, it's almost impossible to depoliticise the issue(s) successfully. Parties will always attempt to use the welfare state as a "political football" because it's such a juicy target when "party politics" is moving right-ward on all fronts. Yes, it's too important to mess with, but that won't stop the goons from messing with it.
 
So much of these reprehensible polices including New Labours abolishment of Incapacity Benefit(IB) and introduction of ESA/ATOS tests, etc and now The Tory attack on WRAG ESA and this 'proposal' come from 'think tanks', corporately funded, stuffed with people with no life experience, callously pushing under-researched ideas to Govt ministers keen to bash the poor or look dynamic(or both) and rush through policies that will hurt them. Power without responsibility.
 
That would be me fucked then was i to be sick.....have no money left over for savings as it is let alone saving to be sick.........
 
That base could actually be self-interest.

Employees who are stressed because they daren't take time off sick, or can't get their health problems adequately treated, aren't the best employees.

Employees who feel powerless, have no sense of agency or choice, or are only there because they can't afford to take the risk of trying to find a better job...are those the people that businesses want talking to their customers, making their business decisions, or manufacturing their products?

Employees who ARE sick, but cannot afford to take time off in case they're fired - or just not paid - and come into work, potentially infecting the rest of the workforce, not to mention functioning significantly below par, and probably staying sicker for longer - that's not in the longer-term interests of any responsible business.

And employees who have been forced to work for a company as part of a workfare scheme, resentful, angry, bitter and frustrated because what they really wanted to do was to have the chance to find a job more appropriate to their skills but which they were not allowed to do on pain of losing all their benefits...does any sensible business really think that they're better off having people like that operating their systems, talking to their customers, or looking after their assets?

This is all short-sightedness of the first water. What a responsible business really needs is happy, motivated employees who feel valued and that their contribution counts for something. People aren't boxes of paperclips or numbers on a spreadsheet - they're real live beings, and pretty much every business needs them at some point in the process.

A welfare state gives people what they need: healthcare that works and helps keep them well and fit to work; a benefits system that means people don't have to live day-to-day in fear that illness or unemployment will immediately plunge them into a whirlpool of debt and misery that they will struggle to escape; and, perhaps most importantly, a safety net to protect employees from the behaviour of abusive or exploitative employers.

I think that most businesses would recognise that to be the case. I think that the businesses we hear most from/about in connection with government policy are not representative of business in general - they are the bloated plutocrats for whom this neo-liberal hegemony has been set up and is being pushed forward, the short-sighted businesses who see staff as just another resource, just another profit centre, and just as disposable as any other bit of inanimate hardware.

The kind of businesses, in short, that are out for what they can get, and are happy to take it and cast it away when it no longer serves their purposes.

The kind of businesses which need to be named and shamed, so that when times change, and it's businesses that are crying out for particular skills, are the ones whom people remember as the betrayers when the boot was on the other foot.

I hope that day comes soon. Meanwhile, I hope they get exactly what's coming to them today - sick employees who make mistakes and spread their bugs, angry employees who sabotage their systems, stressed and distressed employees whose state of mind makes them unpredictable and unreliable. And I hope they pay the price for their greed - today AND into the future.
Existentialist - I agree with every word you have said, but I can't help thinking that the 'secret thinking' behind the vulture employers - in fact, the plutocracy as a whole - and their political proxies runs very much along the lines of 'doesn't matter how badly we shaft the workers, EU membership means such a pool of labour, we can always find loads to replace them from other parts of Europe (and further afield) who'll be only too happy to take their jobs, on whatever terms we care to dictate, and there won't be any political comeback, or anything from a British government to stop us - because well, look at the last General Election result, and look at how utterly impotent anything even remotely 'left' is!
 
Eh? I've been working nearly 40/50 hours per week for months...am off sick now for a week (GP wanted me to take two but I dont get sickness benefits at work)

Am I not entitled to SSP as I've contributed NI?:confused:
 
Yet.

Must Not Think Stabby Thoughts.

THink sniping or iedey thoughts instead
Dave is quoted as saying he "wanted to defund the welfare state"

All options are on the table, UNUM have been advising all govts on this for many years, they are envisioning a private insurance based welfare system, andd with TIPP, etc, will hope to increase their market share, etc.
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Better man than me said it.
 
Eh? I've been working nearly 40/50 hours per week for months...am off sick now for a week (GP wanted me to take two but I dont get sickness benefits at work)

Am I not entitled to SSP as I've contributed NI?:confused:
Yes, you're still entitled to SSP and whatever contractual sick pay your employer provides (if any).
 
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