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Satanic Ritual Abuse - fundie horseshit or troof?

What these sources mostly seem to be claiming boils down to a suggestion that Paisnel's fantasy life and rape MO incorporated some ritual and/or occult elements. After all, it's hardly unusual for these kinds of criminal to have very active fantasy lives and for those fantasies to relate to their crimes, so claims that Paisnel jerked off to Dennis Wheatly or stories about Gilles de Rais don't seem particularly far-fetched.

Also, you talk about Paisnel as if he was acting alone, but from the cutting I cited above:

"Paisnel said that he was a member of a secret religious cult on Jersey. ... The members of the cult had sex orgies, but they were not known to each other. Paisnel claimed important people were involved."​

Of course Paisnel may have been talking crap here (at the time he was trying to explain to police why he was wearing his gruesome costume) but then again, given the revelations that have come out since, he may well not have been. And given that both he and Savile had links to Haut de la Garenne, it is hardly stretching the bounds of credibility to think that they may have attended the same orgy on at least one occasion. We'll probably never know either way though, and even if we did, where one would go in terms of lines of reasoning from that knowledge is not clear to me; but it does not seem to me like just an incidental detail of their pattern of abuse.
 
Incidentally, while it has nothing to do with "Satanic Ritual Abuse" the incredible documentary "Capturing the Friedmans" is a excellent case study in mass hysteria over abuse claims, and how investigators can lead children with dangerous loaded questions.
 
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if you were a bunch of well connected members of an ancient satanic order that liked to sacrifice virgins on special occasions, then I suppose the best way to ensure your cover wasn't blown would be to frame a bunch of uninvolved families and create a satanic abuse scandal around them that then imploded to end up discrediting the entire notion of it.

This is exactly what worries me! :eek:

It almost reads as if you need to convince yourself they must be satanists to do this sort of thing............ which conveniently ignores the vast amounts if evidence of huge numbers of christian priests etc abusing kids for a hell of a long time.

Not at all. I think only a tiny minority of child abusers have occult interests (let's leave the highly problematic term "satanist" aside for the moment). Most abuse happens within the family, and that is the most terrible fact of all. But I do think that a small number of organised, occult-obsessed child abusers may unfortunately exist in this world, whereas some others on these forums seem to regard them as mythical creatures.
 
<snip> I think only a tiny minority of child abusers have occult interests (let's leave the highly problematic term "satanist" aside for the moment). Most abuse happens within the family, and that is the most terrible fact of all. But I do think that a small number of organised, occult-obsessed child abusers may unfortunately exist in this world, whereas some others on these forums seem to regard them as mythical creatures.
Are you familiar with the works of Valerie Sinason and Jean La Fontaine?
 
This is exactly what worries me! :eek:





Not at all. I think only a tiny minority of child abusers have occult interests (let's leave the highly problematic term "satanist" aside for the moment). Most abuse happens within the family, and that is the most terrible fact of all. But I do think that a small number of organised, occult-obsessed child abusers may unfortunately exist in this world, whereas some others on these forums seem to regard them as mythical creatures.


I'd put worrying about "an Ancient order of satanic child abusers" right below my concerns about whether I am "Rapture Ready" on my list of things I am generally worried about. That's moves "getting mauled to death by a unicorn" out of the top ten.

I mean for fucks sake. Do you know anything about the history of satanism?

The ever reliable rense.com (I assume there's no need for sarcastic quotation marks around the word reliable) explains to us that the origin of modern satanism lies with Fredrick Nietzsche.

Anti-Christ cultist Nietzsche announced that the twentieth century would see the end of the Age of Pisces, which Aquarians associate with the figures of Socrates and Christ; Nietzsche prophesied that the New Age would be the Age of Aquarius, which he identified with the Satanic figure Dionysos.

Whole article is a hoot btw, my favourite turn of phrase is "One of the most important operations of these witches is their coordination of the hardcore of U.S. astrology rackets."

Yup the mafia wanted in on that sweet sweet astrology action, but not even Tony S fucks with the Wicca.

http://www.rense.com/general61/satanism.htm For more giggles.




Seriously though there's no evidence that a organised Satanic religion ever existed ever. Several Clergymen created it in the 16th century to stir up religious panic, you should read about the The Malleus Maleficarum. It's basically the "heavy metal bands put subliminal messages in the music" of the Middle Ages. The difference is it got thousands of people killed.
 
You say 'may exist' but I'm still not seeing much in the way of evidence of their existence.

As I said, Paisnel was an eye-opener for me. Considering that you weren't even aware that the occult stuff came out during his trial, rather than in a later ghost-written book, I'm not terribly impressed by your grasp of the relevant evidence.
 
Seriously though there's no evidence that a organised Satanic religion ever existed ever. Several Clergymen created it in the 16th century to stir up religious panic, you should read about the The Malleus Maleficarum. It's basically the "heavy metal bands put subliminal messages in the music" of the Middle Ages. The difference is it got thousands of people killed.

Yes these moral panics surface from time to time. They tend to get wildly overblown and exaggerated. But I don't think they come out of absolutely nothing. One might draw an analogy with fears of pandemics like AIDS, or SARS. Yes the fear goes a bit crazy, but there has to be a disease in the first place to trigger the fear.

It's fine, I'm not looking to convince anyone, or be convinced of anything. This is not a major part of my life and I intend to pretty much drop the subject tomorrow, at least until it comes back into the news!
 
Yes these moral panics surface from time to time. They tend to get wildly overblown and exaggerated. But I don't think they come out of absolutely nothing. One might draw an analogy with fears of pandemics like AIDS, or SARS. Yes the fear goes a bit crazy, but there has to be a disease in the first place to trigger the fear.

It's fine, I'm not looking to convince anyone, or be convinced of anything. This is not a major part of my life and I intend to pretty much drop the subject tomorrow, at least until it comes back into the news!


The Satanic panic in the late 80s was partly created by this book, which claimed there were Satanic covens which abducted and murdered people.

Great read at the time I believed it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clapham_Wood_Mystery

In 1972, missing Police Constable Peter Goldsmith's body was found hidden in a patch of thick bramble. In August 1975, missing pensioner Leon Foster was found in the woods by a couple searching for a lost horse. In 1978, the missing Reverend Harry Neil Snelling's body was found by a Canadian tourist. In September 1981, the body of Jillian Matthews, a homeless schizophrenic was discovered, having been raped and strangled.[2]

In their 1987 book The Demonic Connection, authors Toyne Newton, Charles Walker and Alan Brown claimed that the woods were used for rituals by a Satanic cult calling itself the "Friends of Hecate".[2]



An article by Charles Walker, which details his long investigation into strange phenomena and black magic activity in the Clapham area of Sussex

http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/england/occult/black-magic-in-clapham-and-sussex.html
 
Yes these moral panics surface from time to time. They tend to get wildly overblown and exaggerated. But I don't think they come out of absolutely nothing. One might draw an analogy with fears of pandemics like AIDS, or SARS. Yes the fear goes a bit crazy, but there has to be a disease in the first place to trigger the fear.

Yes! Just like the fact that the MMR caused Autism. :facepalm::rolleyes:

No there doesn't need to be a basis that grounds a ridiculous belief. Just look at say, any organised religion.
It's fine, I'm not looking to convince anyone, or be convinced of anything. This is not a major part of my life and I intend to pretty much drop the subject tomorrow, at least until it comes back into the news!

Marvellous while we wait please give us your opinion on where the McCanns hid the body.
 
Don't believe this Satanic stuff. We've got the Tories, aren't they satanic enough?

theresamay.jpg
 
<snip> In their 1987 book The Demonic Connection, authors Toyne Newton, Charles Walker and Alan Brown claimed that the woods were used for rituals by a Satanic cult calling itself the "Friends of Hecate".[2]



An article by Charles Walker, which details his long investigation into strange phenomena and black magic activity in the Clapham area of Sussex

http://www.mysteriousbritain.co.uk/england/occult/black-magic-in-clapham-and-sussex.html
In that case, you'll doubtless have also read "The Black Alchemist" and maybe "The Seventh Sword" by Andrew Collins? Set in the mid 80s onwards and supposedly non fiction, these books also do more than hint at somebody up to no good in that area, except that it's a bunch of assorted (I use the word "assorted"for a good reason) Pagans and a Sensitive on a psychic quest who come up against "dark forces". It all gets a bit Scooby Gang.

Cracking reads, great for tips on how not to protect yourself, but factual evidence of somebody genuinely being up to no good? I think not.
 
Yes these moral panics surface from time to time. They tend to get wildly overblown and exaggerated. But I don't think they come out of absolutely nothing. One might draw an analogy with fears of pandemics like AIDS, or SARS. Yes the fear goes a bit crazy, but there has to be a disease in the first place to trigger the fear.

Of course they don't; moral panics originate from specific sources of power, ("moral entrepreneurs" according to Cohen), that seek to cast others as "folk devils" for their own interests.
 
As I said, Paisnel was an eye-opener for me. Considering that you weren't even aware that the occult stuff came out during his trial, rather than in a later ghost-written book, I'm not terribly impressed by your grasp of the relevant evidence.

Still doesn't constitute evidence of anything but occult themes in his fantasy life and MO
 
Still doesn't constitute evidence of anything but occult themes in his fantasy life and MO

He stated to police that he was a part of a cult. We don't have to believe him of course, but it's evidence.

... Mind you, I admit that one case over several decades is not much evidence. I am not familiar with the details of Watkins's case; perhaps more information will emerge over the next few years as to whether he too saw himself as part of a cult.
 
He stated to police that he was a part of a cult. We don't have to believe him of course, but it's evidence.

... Mind you, I admit that one case over several decades is not much evidence. I am not familiar with the details of Watkins's case; perhaps more information will emerge over the next few years as to whether he too saw himself as part of a cult.
he was part of the cult of "ian watkins rock star who would do anything for the lulz"
 
There are plenty of allegations of child murder and 'disappearances' as well as sexual abuse by these rings, including at Haute de la Garenne. The latter care home was linked to Edward Paisnel who certainly had an unhealthy interest in the occult, to say the least. (Bernie Gunther, note that Paisnel came from a wealthy class background.)

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2008/feb/26/childprotection.ukcrime

After 2008 the Paisnel / Haute de la Garenne link was apparently played down by police. But with all these coverups, we can't really be 100% confident in this de-linking, can we?

I was with you guys, I thought SRA was a load of nonsense until I read about Paisnel. Now suddenly I'm not so sure. It's all a bit scary really.

My understanding is that the link between Paisnel and Haut de la Garenne was "played down", as you put it, because the account of him playing Father Christmas at a children's home turned out to refer to a different children's home where his wife worked. Not a very solid foundation for suggesting that there is any occult basis for the abuse at Haut de la Garenne.

He stated to police that he was a part of a cult. We don't have to believe him of course, but it's evidence.
Yes he did say he was a member of a cult - when he was caught
in a stolen car. He was wearing a jacket studded with nails at the shoulders and on the lapels, and had with him a rubber mask, a woman's wig and several lengths of rope. "I belong to a religious secret society," he explained feebly. "I'm on my way to a sex orgy." (from a report in Time - Dec. 13, 1971)

It was part of his defense. He also pleaded not guilty to the various charges of assault, rape and sodomy - is his denial also "evidence" ?
 
Was going to do a detailed answer but will spare us all the bother. To answer the question first up: I think it may well happen, more likely in the US, but would be a tiny % of abuse cases. One would hope that if abuse itself could be proved then such a nature of abuse would also come to light.

Bernie Gunthers categorisation is useful, I would add that some such abuse may be so "dark side" in a "how far can we go" mentality that it may as well be invoking the demonic (if you believe that sort of thing). And of course, "ritualistic" and "occult" are not synonymous with "satanic", at least on the surface. But again, if you believe in the Satanic then it could be argued to be manifest in such revolting behaviours, wether or not it's a stated intent.
 
He stated to police that he was a part of a cult. We don't have to believe him of course, but it's evidence.

<snip>

Henry Lee Lucas also claimed to be part of a cult, but it turns out he wasn't. The story of what happened next is instructive.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/henry_lee_lucas/15.html

Do you have any corroborating evidence for Paisnel's claims of cult membership?

Something that positively links him to one, rather than vague speculation about Haut de la Garenne or whatever?
 
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Was going to do a detailed answer but will spare us all the bother.

You could have been nice and spared us the bother full stop.

To answer the question first up: I think it may well happen,

Why?
more likely in the US,

WHY? Because American fundies scream louder about it? The louder you shout "wolf" doesn't increase the likelihood of it actually being a wolf.

but would be a tiny % of abuse cases.

< than 0% ?

One would hope that if abuse itself could be proved then such a nature of abuse would also come to light.

Yeah which is why after thousands of people have been convicted of sexual abuse of minors, zero safe convicts have been made of people charged with ritual satanic abuse.
 
He stated to police that he was a part of a cult. We don't have to believe him of course, but it's evidence.

I personally don't think that musings about a person's fantasy life have to conform to the standards of an experimental science, or that anything less than experimental science is cod psychology, but if you're going beyond describing the possible internal world of an individual to suggest something has taken place at an external, organisational level you won't get very far here without evidence that is recognised as such.
 
snip

...the Satanic figure Dionysos.

Whole article is a hoot btw, my favourite turn of phrase is "One of the most important operations of these witches is their coordination of the hardcore of U.S. astrology rackets."

Yup the mafia wanted in on that sweet sweet astrology action, but not even Tony S fucks with the Wicca.

http://www.rense.com/general61/satanism.htm For more giggles.




Seriously though there's no evidence that a organised Satanic religion ever existed ever. Several Clergymen created it in the 16th century to stir up religious panic, you should read about the The Malleus Maleficarum. It's basically the "heavy metal bands put subliminal messages in the music" of the Middle Ages. The difference is it got thousands of people killed.
Er... wut? :hmm: :D :rolleyes: :facepalm:
 
angelraven said:
I'm not terribly impressed by your grasp of the relevant evidence.

angelraven said:
He stated to police that he was a part of a cult. We don't have to believe him of course, but it's evidence.

I'm not terribly impressed your misunderstanding of what exactly constitutes evidence.

princess-bride-you-keep-using-that-word.gif
 
Question for Bernie and anyone else who might be interested. One of the most bizarre features of the original Satanic Panic of the '80s was that it was assiduously promoted by Eurocommunist Beatrice Campbell, and in the pages of Communist Party theoretical mag Marxism Today, no less.

What's your take on that part of the puzzle? It seems a rather odd for even that bunch of political renegades to take. . . or was it just a case of once people stop believing in something (in this case Lenin's Beard and all that went with it) they will fall for anything?

Anti-porn feminists and the religious right had already made (often uncomfortable) common cause prior to the SRA panic. For example, when Catherine McKinnon and Andrea Dworkin were trying to get anti-porn legislation passed in the early 80's in the US and found allies in the Reagan-era 'Moral Majority'. The socially conservative Meese Commission even co-opted some feminist language to support its recommendations. See e.g. feminist pornographer Pat Califia's essay on the subject.

In the same time frame, the McMartin allegations emerged, sowing the seed for the whole SRA panic of the late 80's. A key text on the central roles played by fundies and (some) feminists in promoting this horseshit in the US (along with conservative politicians and sensationalist press) is Debbie Nathan's "Satan's Silence" which I can't find substantial quotes from online.

However, here's Alexander Cockburn excoriating various elements of the radical feminist press for going along with this stuff uncritically and using detail derived from Nathan's book.

Here's Nathan along with a couple of other subject matter experts talking more generally about what lessons should be taken from the US ritual abuse cases.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/terror/meaning/
New research on medical evidence and child interviewing that appellate attorneys are bringing to court amply shows that it is quite possible for untrained or overzealous investigators to tease false allegations from children, and false confessions from accused adults. In the 1980s and early 1990s it was also possible for these investigators to go to the courts and the media, where they rationalized the most illogical and illusory claims with the gloss of their "expertise."

<snip>

If there is anything the justice system can learn from this illogic, it is that even as society investigates novel ways of dealing with old problems, we must maintain a deep regard for what the public calls "common sense," and what courts have always called findings of fact. Common sense has never posited a class of people who are incapable of lying and who can never be pressured or cajoled into telling falsehoods. Neither have the courts. Why, then, would anyone attribute ubiquitous truth-telling to children? And why would judges, juries and society believe that lack of evidence constitutes evidence?
Debbie Nathan, source above.

Now here's Bea Campbell in Marxism Today writing at time of the Nottingham SRA case. http://www.amielandmelburn.org.uk/collections/mt/pdf/90_11_20.pdf

Key message here being 'believe the children' a message also insisted on by both the fundies and feminists in the US cases and an explicit call to reject 'common sense' concerns about SRA stories along with criticism of the police for trying to challenge test the validity of these allegations.

Here she is three years later, not explicitly talking about SRA, but writing about controversies associated with various horrible Nottinghamshire child abuse cases and within social services. http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...-months-beatrix-campbell-reports-1468975.html

Judith Dawson aka Jones mentioned in the text is someone that Campbell has worked closely with, e.g. they wrote a play about Myra Hindley together. Dawson/Jones was heavily criticised for her key role in the the Nottingham SRA cases and was also subsequently subject to severe criticism in the Nursery Nurses libel case in which, rather than accepting the verdict, she was instrumental, along with some colleagues and The Sun, in sending a mob of vigilantes after two people who had just been found innocent in a court of law.
"HELP US FIND THESE FIENDS Do you know where perverts Lillie and Reed are now?

Phone us on 0161 935 5315 or 0171 782 4105. Don’t worry about the cost - we will call you straight back. "

Campbell seems pretty clearly keen to defend Dawson/Jones' decisions in the Indy piece and as the Marxism Today article (and the associated Dispatches documentary) shows, pretty obviously supported them at the time. My reading of Campbell's argument in the Indy piece is she's saying that a bunch of kids died because a more sceptical standard was applied to children's abuse testimony, implicitly, after the SRA fiasco precipitated a housecleaning and change of approach in Nottinghamshire.

For a contrasting point of view to Campbell's, here's Woffinden and Webster's extremely scathing piece on the Nursery Nurses case.
Eight years ago Dawn Reed and Christopher Lillie were cleared in court of molesting children at the nursery where they worked. But the accusations continued - in newspapers and in a report commissioned by Newcastle city council - and they had to disappear, afraid for their lives. Journalist Bob Woffinden and writer Richard Webster tracked the pair down to where they were hiding and helped them to find barristers who would work on a no-win no-fee basis. Yesterday they won a historic libel victory. This is their story
http://www.theguardian.com/society/2002/jul/31/childrensservices.childprotection

I can provide more citations on all this stuff, but I'm now (as requested) going to hypothesise a bit based on what I've provided above. I think what happened both for conservative enemies of moral decay and feminist enemies of patriarchy, is that the SRA allegations pushed some really strong buttons. "Believe the children" became an article of faith for SRA proponents of both persuasions, despite mounting evidence that the children were being coached by adults into replaying pre-conceived ideas, either through dodgy fringe psychotherapeutic techniques (repressed memories, alters and all that stuff) or old-fashioned leading questions.

I can sort of feel something analogous happening over on the "High level paedophile ring" thread as more and at least somewhat credible testimony emerges (some really juicy stuff today) suggesting that half of Thatchers cabinet were child-raping sadists who were able to use the care home system as a child brothel because they were explicitly protected by special branch and the security services. Part of me really wants all that stuff to be proven true, because I hate the fuckers and would love to see even the Daily Mail forced to piss on Thatcher's memory.

So I can sort of see how, especially if the SRA allegations were mixed up with some very real (but non-satanic) abuse as they apparently were in the Nottingham case, the "believe the children" principle combined with a bunch of pre-conceived ideas about SRA and highly suspect interview techniques, could lead to overzealousness about protecting children at all costs even if means innocents being jailed and hounded, endorsement of batshit SRA fantasies and retrospective self-justification.

Fundamentally, there's a question there about where society is going to choose to draw the line, between risk of injustice and risk of harm to children. Campbell and Dawson/Jones represent one side of that argument and people like Debbie Nathan in the US and Rosie Waterhouse, Richard Webster etc in the UK, represent the other.
 
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Question for Bernie and anyone else who might be interested. One of the most bizarre features of the original Satanic Panic of the '80s was that it was assiduously promoted by Eurocommunist Beatrice Campbell, and in the pages of Communist Party theoretical mag Marxism Today, no less.

What's your take on that part of the puzzle? It seems a rather odd for even that bunch of political renegades to take. . . or was it just a case of once people stop believing in something (in this case Lenin's Beard and all that went with it) they will fall for anything?

I always felt it was more to do with Bea Campbell being caught between the rock of feminism and the hard place of being atheistic, and part of a movement that was avowedly atheistic. Bear in mind that by the time the "Satanic Panic" emerged in the UK, feminisms had already been subjected to the reductivism of identity politics, and many many committed feminists (rightly, IMO) felt that their prime duty was to other women, especially women who'd been victimised by patriarchy. The themes in Satanic abuse made those victims (at least the disclosers/those who recovered memories) almost irresistable as foci for a feminist critique of patriarchy.
 
I'm surprised that you say that because the occult stuff seems to have been exhibited at his trial and pretty openly reported at the time; e.g. original cutting here:
http://spotlightonabuse.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/mail030971.jpg

I do get what you are saying about SRA being used as a smokescreen, but I am just concerned in case the pendulum swings back too far the other way, and victim reports start being treated as fantasy just because they contain an occult element. Dangers on both sides I think.

I'd hope that most social workers and psychologists working with child victims would have learned enough about best practice in the last 25 years that they wouldn't treat any disclosure as "fantasy". That would seem to go against everything that's been developed with regard to open interviewing techniques, and treatment of disclosed material.
 
I'd hope that most social workers and psychologists working with child victims would have learned enough about best practice in the last 25 years that they wouldn't treat any disclosure as "fantasy". That would seem to go against everything that's been developed with regard to open interviewing techniques, and treatment of disclosed material.

Debbie Nathan again from the PBS transcript I quote above.
In response to growing skepticism about sex abuse investigative methods, many child protection professionals complain of "backlash." They say media criticism of daycare cases is pushing the public back to the dark ages before the 1980s, when few people would admit how common child sex abuse really is. These days, the child protection people claim, courts are favoring defendants and doubting the word of young accusers.

My sense is that these complaints are self-serving rhetoric from professionals unwilling to own up to their own responsibility for discrediting children. As a journalist doing critical work on false sex abuse allegations since 1987, I have been the brunt of endless animus from child protection professionals. They have accused me of not caring about kids, of helping conservative politicians set back the cause of child welfare, of latching onto a tabloid topic for sensationalism's sake. In a slightly more charitable vein, some child protection people have simply questioned why journalists would want to cover false accusations, when real ones are so much more common. "No, we didn't do everything right at first," one prominent official told me. "But in order to protect children, some innocent adults are going to get caught up in the accusations net. That's the sacrifice we have to make. Anyway, the appeals courts will take care of each case sooner or later."

<snip>
When we injure innocent people, we are morally if not legally bound to repair the damage. Child protection professionals have their heads in the sand if they think they are exempt from this charge. Across the country, untold thousands of innocent people have been harassed during sex abuse investigations, terrorized, separated from their children, jailed, and sometimes imprisoned. As a result, it is not only cynical politicians and moral conservatives who say government has no business in children's live. Now, honest, decent folks are also writing off public attempts to protect children from abuse. Talking to people accused in sloppy child abuse investigations, I am chilled by their hostility towards child protection efforts, feminism, therapy, and government in general. These attitudes do not bode well for a gentler, more egalitarian nation. But they are certainly understandable.

Since the eruption of the daycare cases, many researchers in the child protection specialties have done the right thing: they have used scientific methods to investigate what went wrong, and brought their research to their colleagues and the public. Others, however, need to stop screaming "backlash" and clean house. To do that, they must stop coddling their prominent colleagues who were personally involved in the ritual abuse cases, and who rationalize their errors by refusing, for example, to encourage national policy requiring videotaped interviews. Groups such as APSAC should stop dragging their feet on this issue, as they have for years. They should also organize financial, legal and political resources to get Frank Fuster and countless other falsely convicted people out of the prisons they are rotting in, more than a decade after the ritual abuse hoax shattered so many blameless lives.
 
if you were a bunch of well connected members of an ancient satanic order that liked to sacrifice virgins on special occasions, then I suppose the best way to ensure your cover wasn't blown would be to frame a bunch of uninvolved families and create a satanic abuse scandal around them that then imploded to end up discrediting the entire notion of it.

And why would you even breed these sacrificial victims yourself, as so many putative victims claimed? We have enough people go missing every year that even in a relatively-small place like the UK, you could find enough victims - the homeless, hitch-hikers etc - to fill your Satanic boots.
 
Incidentally, while it has nothing to do with "Satanic Ritual Abuse" the incredible documentary "Capturing the Friedmans" is a excellent case study in mass hysteria over abuse claims, and how investigators can lead children with dangerous loaded questions.

This is why open questioning techniques are mandated for child interviews. You open with a broad question like "what happened yesterday", then follow it with questions like "who else was there", and let the interviewee dictate the pace. Labour-intensive but MUCH better than the sort of suggestive crap the kids in the Orkneys etc got asked.
 
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