Urban75 Home About Offline BrixtonBuzz Contact

Salman Rushdie attacked on stage in New York

Belief systems as opposed to religions don't necessarily demand total acceptance. You might, for example, think that anarchism is basically correct while being uncertain as to the efficacy of a revolutionary general strike, or whatever. Religions tend to be all or nothing. There's plenty of examples to the contrary, of course, Marxist dictatorships in particular, but religions normally start off with faith or revelation and you can't argue with any of that unless you start another one to replace it.

I think anarchism gives a lot more room to colour outside the lines than Marxism.

Could you be a Marxist if you believe the labour theory of value is a load of old pony, or that history was not pointed in the direction of eventual inevitable communism due to the tendency of the rate of profit to fall combined with capitalism’s inherent contradictions?

Jordan Peterson would say yes, but plenty wouldn’t.
 
I think anarchism gives a lot more room to colour outside the lines than Marxism.

Could you be a Marxist if you believe the labour theory of value is a load of old pony, or that history was not pointed in the direction of eventual inevitable communism due to the tendency of the rate of profit to fall combined with capitalism’s inherent contradictions?

Jordan Peterson would say yes, but plenty wouldn’t.
True. The clue is in the name. If your philosophy is based on the thoughts of one individual, and named after them, it rather limits your ability to roam at will intellectually.
 
As Marx wrote to Engels, "If those people are Marxists, then I'm not a Marxist".

The vocabulary is pretty much defined by the ruling class - look at the expression "Marxist Culture" - an invention.

What Marx and Engels did was recognise Dialectical Materialism and all that.

As someone has already said, would we call Science "Newtonism" ?

Marx and Engels isn't about philosphy, but about doingness.
 
What Marx and Engels did was recognise Dialectical Materialism and all ththat.
Marx never mentioned dialectical materialism, which is a post-Marx creation (Engels, Kautsky, Lenin, etc). Marx wrote about the materialist conception of history, aka historical materialism, which is the good stuff alongside the political economyin Capital. Dialectical materialism is just the mystical an incomprehensible mumbo jumbo of a newer "Marxist" and Marxist-Leninist priesthood.
 
Marx never mentioned dialectical materialism, which is a post-Marx creation (Engels, Kautsky, Lenin, etc). Marx wrote about the materialist conception of history, aka historical materialism, which is the good stuff alongside the political economyin Capital. Dialectical materialism is just the mystical an incomprehensible mumbo jumbo of a newera "Mrxist" and Marxist-Leninist priesthood.

In the USSR etc., DM was taught, I believe as a compulsory subject. The Dialectics from Hegel, and then, as Engel said, they put Hegel back "on his feet", i.e. as materialism, not idealism.

The mumbojumbo of the west is the state approved "Marxism". Guaranteed to be harmless. The Trot parties offering occupational therapy to any discontents:)

There's no real leftism in the west - look also at anarchism and the occupy movement.

No one need worry about them.

BTW - I believe Oxford University Press have bought the copyright for the complete works of Marx and Engels and are going to re-write all the notes more "objectively".

Yes, the royal, state university of the rich, powerful, royalty and other state rulers is going to be the new authority on "Marxism"!

I believe the new term being added to newspeak is "Classical Marxism"
Oxford's eccliastical tradition always favoured the Classics..
 
Last edited:
In the USSR etc., DM was taught, I believe as a compulsory subject. The Dialectics from Hegel, and then, as Engel said, they put Hegel back "on his feet", i.e. as materialism, not idealism.

The very notion of dialectics is fundamentally idealist. Why dialectics and not trialectics? Or quadrolectics? It's a framework that is pre-supposed as axiomatic and then imposed on the universe. That's completely backwards.
 
BTW - I believe Oxford University Press have bought the copyright for the complete works of Marx and Engels and are going to re-write all the notes more "objectively".

Yes, the royal, state university of the rich, powerful, royalty and other state rulers is going to be the new authority on "Marxism"!

I believe the new term being added to newspeak is "Classical Marxism"
Oxford's eccliastical tradition always favoured the Classics..

I can't see how they could have bought the copyright of something that is out of copyright.
 
I can't see how they could have bought the copyright of something that is out of copyright.

Cambridge University press sold it to them out the back of a dodgy Transit at a motorway services. When they open it they will find the package just contains a few potatoes to make up the weight…
 
The very notion of dialectics is fundamentally idealist. Why dialectics and not trialectics? Or quadrolectics? It's a framework that is pre-supposed as axiomatic and then imposed on the universe. That's completely backwards.
Wouldn’t a “trialectic” just be a compound form of dialectic? The principle of dialectical progress is that you have thesis, antithesis and then a synthesis of the two. Idea, negation, step forward. If you have an extra input, you now just have a bigger antithesis or, possibly, two steps of the dialectic cycle.
 
I don't see the logical justification for Hegelian dialectics. Why that and not something else?

This example is given in the Cambridge Companion to Hegel.

We may illustrate this general model of the Logic's dialectic by means of the textbook example from the beginning of the Logic. He- gel starts from the category Being, and first tries to show that this contains its contrary, Nothing: "Being, pure being, without any fur- ther determination ... It is pure indeterminateness and emptiness. There is nothing to be intuited in i t . . . Just as little is anything to be thought in i t . . . Being, the indeterminate immediate, is in fact noth- ing, and neither more nor less than nothing. "l6 Hegel than undertakes to demonstrate the converse containment of the concept of Being in that of Nothing in a similar way. Having thus reached the negative result that these two categories are self-contradictory, Hegel finally tries to show that there is a positive outcome that unites them but in a manner that avoids their self-contradictoriness, because it not only preserves them but also modifies their senses: the category Becom- ing. (To see what he is getting at here, one should reflect on the fact that what is simply in a state of becoming in a sense is or has being and also in a sense is not or is nothing.) Becoming then forms the starting point for a new round of the dialectic - going on to develop a self-contradiction that leads to subsumption under the category of Determinate Being (Dasein).

I admit to being :confused: about the above. It's intended to clarify but leaves me none the wiser as to the insight it is supposed to provide.
 
Wouldn’t a “trialectic” just be a compound form of dialectic? The principle of dialectical progress is that you have thesis, antithesis and then a synthesis of the two. Idea, negation, step forward. If you have an extra input, you now just have a bigger antithesis or, possibly, two steps of the dialectic cycle.

Not necessarily. Think of the fire triangle, all of its components (oxygen, fuel and ignition/heat) must exist at once in order for there to be combustion. Same thing with the three quarks which must cluster together at once in order for baryons to exist.
 
Not necessarily. Think of the fire triangle, all of its components (oxygen, fuel and ignition/heat) must exist at once in order for there to be combustion. Same thing with the three quarks which must cluster together at once in order for baryons to exist.
Yeah, I see no reason why you couldn't come up with ideas that can exist in three or more states of equal validity.

Taking a Hegelian example, you can have 'master', 'slave' and 'neither master nor slave'. Each is mutually exclusive of the other two. But I admit that I don't get Hegel's master/slave dialectic. I suspect that it is an example of a deepity.

ETA:

I suspect that we humans are in some way predisposed by evolution to categorise existence using binaries - right/wrong, good/bad, etc.
 
Not necessarily. Think of the fire triangle, all of its components (oxygen, fuel and ignition/heat) must exist at once in order for there to be combustion. Same thing with the three quarks which must cluster together at once in order for baryons to exist.
It’s a fair point. I think that I need to ponder on that and see whether I think that the general concept of non-orthogonality and/or interaction effects applies to the world of philosophical propositions as much as it applies to non-linear dynamic systems
 
It’s a fair point. I think that I need to ponder on that and see whether I think that the general concept of non-orthogonality and/or interaction effects applies to the world of philosophical propositions as much as it applies to non-linear dynamic systems

Do you think you can have that sorted and typed up by Friday afternoon?
 
I don't see the logical justification for Hegelian dialectics. Why that and not something else?

This example is given in the Cambridge Companion to Hegel.

I admit to being :confused: about the above. It's intended to clarify but leaves me none the wiser as to the insight it is supposed to provide.

I try to approach Hegel a bit like I approach Nietzsche. Like a trip to a crazy zoo where lots of things don’t make any sense, but you find yourself picking up insights here and there.

The worrying people are the ones who either convince themselves that everything hangs together, or who try to feed the animals.
 
I can't see how they could have bought the copyright of something that is out of copyright.
I seem to recall there was a bit of a spat over Marx & Engels collected works (standard English translations) with CP connected Lawrence & Wishart claiming copyright and threatening litigation over snide publishing by the Marxists Internet archive and others. Could be that L&W eventually flogged it off to Oxford. Maybe someone knows more about this?
 
I believe a lot of Marx and Engels is public domain, but in some cases you're waiting for the translator to have been dead 70 years.
 
Mr Matar told the New York Post he had only read "a couple of pages" of the book and did not say whether the fatwa had inspired him.


I guess he's not a big reader, but that might change now that the shithead's got a few decades of spare time in front of him.
 
Back
Top Bottom