Sainsburys staff given targets to promote scab tills

[butchersapron]

Interesting that this topic seems to bring out all the idiots

Shh, don't cheek a man of science. I bet he's got a white lab coat on and everything.

 

[William of Walworth]

I fear I don't boycott the robot tills at our nearest (mega) Sainsburys, maybe I will avoid them more now.

But the reason is usually because I've been in a hurry that I've used the self-service tills. And I don't tend to have problems with the way they operate as such -- annoying yes, confusing no..

I will always avoid them while doing a mega shop though, especially when it includes alcohol. Which is not that often as it goes, we drink far more in pubs than at home. Big shopping amounts generally though, with trolley rather than handbasket quantities are always a bloody nuisance at the self-service tills anyway.

 

[seventh bullet]

There maybe not as many checkout staff in each store. However I strongly suspect that supermarkets are employing more people year on year. As the number of stores expand I also expect that there is more work to be had working at checkouts. Supermarkets even boast that their new store will create x many new jobs as some kind of fanfare as to why we should welcome them.

What's missing from this picture, obviously, is the quality of employment that's offered and deskilling of work. The effect supermarkets have on local communities with the profits of the business being paid to shareholders with minimal tax burden. Closing of local shops. Marginalisation of local suppliers etc.

Anyway my point again is that ire towards 'scab tills' seems targeted at what I suspect is a relatively small aspect in how supermarkets operate. It misses the bigger picture. For instance through legislation France has been quite effective in taming the march of the mutiple through the high street. Typically the high streets in towns and villages in France more vibrant and varied than in the UK.

Even if automatic tills were outlawed it would do little to restore the varied and diverse high streets which we once had. Whereas if we want more jobs at supermarket checkouts then perhaps we should welcome the 'scab tills' and the ever increasing dominance of the supermarket chain.

That's interesting. I've noticed the workforce be reduced over the last four years. The night crew has nearly halved but our workload hasn't. What would I know, though. I just work in one of these places. Those on days shifts are just pushed around different departments filling roles once taken by full-timers.

When our store was refitted in 2012, job vacancies were announced with great fanfare indeed, and in the local press. Most of the new positions were part-time and most were laid off in the new year (a few months, I suspect once the probationary period had ended). Nothing more than advertising the 'new look' store to potential customers than providing long-term employment.

Sure, more stores means more staff employed overall, but what goes on in individual stores? Staff levels stripped down and those left have more work to do than ever.

That's what 'efficiency' looks like to us.

 

[fredfelt]

That's interesting. I've noticed the workforce be reduced over the last four years. The night crew has nearly halved but our workload hasn't. What would I know, though. I just work in one of these places. Those on days shifts are just pushed around different departments filling roles once taken by full-timers.

When our store was refitted in 2012, job vacancies were announced with great fanfare indeed, and in the local press. Most of the new positions were part-time and most were laid off in the new year (a few months, I suspect once the probationary period had ended). Nothing more than advertising the 'new look' store to potential customers than providing long-term employment.

Sure, more stores means more staff employed overall, but what goes on in individual stores? Staff levels stripped down and those left have more work to do than ever.

That's what 'efficiency' looks like to us.

You raise real concerns. I see the issues here to be associated with employment rights, how technology changes the structure of an economy and the impact on the work force, the ever increasing dominance of corporations, how we have let corporations take control of our high street.

All of the issues above can, to some extent, be influenced by government policy. With political will there's plenty of potential to make improvements.

I guess you could also legislate against 'scab tills' but I doubt this would make any real impact.

An individual deciding to avoid an automated till in preference to a manned till may make them feel better - however I doubt the supermarket really gives a shit. This choice is ultimately in the method you choose to give your money to the shop. I'm sure every little helps - regardless of how they take your money from you.

 

[J Ed]

That's interesting. I've noticed the workforce be reduced over the last four years. The night crew has nearly halved but our workload hasn't. What would I know, though. I just work in one of these places. Those on days shifts are just pushed around different departments filling roles once taken by full-timers.

When our store was refitted in 2012, job vacancies were announced with great fanfare indeed, and in the local press. Most of the new positions were part-time and most were laid off in the new year (a few months, I suspect once the probationary period had ended). Nothing more than advertising the 'new look' store to potential customers than providing long-term employment.

Sure, more stores means more staff employed overall, but what goes on in individual stores? Staff levels stripped down and those left have more work to do than ever.

That's what 'efficiency' looks like to us.

There is a Sainsburys metro (or local, whatever) in the centre of Sheffield which advertises the amount of jobs which the shop 'provides' to the community as if they are providing some kind of charitable service by exploiting people on NMW with zero hour contracts. I don't know how typical this is, I don't think I have seen it in any other supermarkets but it is definitely one of the supermarkets which seems to deliberately understaff the shop to try and force people to use the scab tills.

 

[StoneRoad]

So how do they expect the less physically able or the mentally challenged to deal with the bliiddy things ............. they don't seem very user friendly.
I know a few, mostly elderly, people who like to do a bit of shopping as it gets them out of the house and the interaction with the till assistant is one of their few interactions with other people. these scab tills stop that .

 

[Wilson]

It won't be much longer before the machines rise against us and we find that judgement day is upon us.

 

[Roadkill]

So how do they expect the less physically able or the mentally challenged to deal with the bliiddy things ............. they don't seem very user friendly.

Tbh one of the things I dislike about them is how much of a meal many people make of using them. They're not hard.

That said, fredfelt is right. The problem is supermarkets themselves: automated checkouts are a side issue.

 

[andysays]

Tbh one of the things I dislike about them is how much of a meal many people make of using them. They're not hard.

That said, fredfelt is right. The problem is supermarkets themselves: automated checkouts are a side issue.

They may be not be hard for you, they may not be hard for the majority of shoppers, but for a significant minority they are, which is why from the point of view of the consumer, it's better that there are always sufficient "traditional" staffed tills available for those who prefer them.

And if you really want to get closer to ultimate causes, the problem is capitalism's tendency to concentrate economic power in the hands of the few, and its use of technology to increase profitability. Supermarkets and automated checkouts are both symptoms of those tendencies, rather than causes themselves.

 

[seventh bullet]

And it'll only come from workers themselves across different retail companies communicating with each other and forcing change on employers. The massive problem we have is a lack of organisation, informal or otherwise, to be able to do that. Fuck feeling guilty about using self-service checkouts (even though they are 'scab tills'). It won't make a difference, and you can't always avoid them.

 

[SpookyFrank]

So how do they expect the less physically able or the mentally challenged to deal with the bliiddy things ............. they don't seem very user friendly.
I know a few, mostly elderly, people who like to do a bit of shopping as it gets them out of the house and the interaction with the till assistant is one of their few interactions with other people. these scab tills stop that .

That's more of an argument for taking better care of old people.

 

[weltweit]

So how do they expect the less physically able or the mentally challenged to deal with the bliiddy things ............. they don't seem very user friendly.
I know a few, mostly elderly, people who like to do a bit of shopping as it gets them out of the house and the interaction with the till assistant is one of their few interactions with other people. these scab tills stop that .

In my local Tesco the guys at the tills know me, they pull out my usual cigarettes ready for me before I get to the counter. The self scan can't compete with human service.

That said, these things are cyclic and there isn't much new in the world of shopping. Back when I was 8 the local grocer used to take telephone orders and deliver boxes of goods direct to the door, something supermarkets are only now taking seriously.

 

[Obnoxiousness]

I have noticed that self-scan tills seem to confuse a lot of people. And it would only take a few design alterations to eliminate that confusion. An example being the location of the money in and out slots, they always seem to be scattered and never grouped. So you have to put notes into a slot that is on the opposite side to the coins... and your change requires you to bend down to a coin drop tray, unless your change contains a note, in which case there is a separate note dispenser at least 50cm away from the coin tray.

I know it takes quite a lot of mechanical electrical hardware to move money around inside a secure enclosure, but for fuck's sake, can't the "notes in" be grouped with the "coins in"? Can't the "notes out" be put alongside the "coins out"?

To an average person... in most retail self-scan situations they have to deal with:-

a) A touch screen interface.
b) A flatbed /90 degree barcode scanner + possible separate large item hand held device.
c) A clutch of plastic bags (which never open if you have dry hands) over a mandatory bagging platform.
d) Money in slots.
e) Money out slots.
f) Credit/debit card reader, which all differ in card insertion methods, some read from the top, some from the bottom.
g) A hovering member of staff who appears to be paranoid that you are going to attempt grand theft tin-o-beans.

Add to this the pressure of the queue, because no matter how cool you think you are, in the back of your mind YOU are the one who is holding up the queue... there is no member of staff to blame, it's just you and the machine. So the people watching you will be annoyed if you make a mistake and the self-scan staff member has to come over to you, like a primary school teacher attending a child.

I've seen people get ANGRY operating these things... to the point of hitting the machine. I've seen people abandon their attempt to use the self-scan and wander murderously along the rows of tills to find a "REAL PERSON"!!!!

Stop me if I'm talking bollocks.

 

[Roadkill]

They may be not be hard for you, they may not be hard for the majority of shoppers, but for a significant minority they are, which is why from the point of view of the consumer, it's better that there are always sufficient "traditional" staffed tills available for those who prefer them.

And if you really want to get closer to ultimate causes, the problem is capitalism's tendency to concentrate economic power in the hands of the few, and its use of technology to increase profitability. Supermarkets and automated checkouts are both symptoms of those tendencies, rather than causes themselves.

Can't disagree with any of that - which is why I prefer to avoid supermarkets as far as possible and do my shopping in locally-owned independent shops. For fresh produce they're often cheaper anyway, and better quality.

*e2a* On the rare occasions I do use self-service checkouts, though, I reserve the right to an inner sigh of impatience whilst waiting for someone to fathom out how to scan a tin of baked beans!

 

[kebabking]

And it'll only come from workers themselves across different retail companies communicating with each other and forcing change on employers....

not true - my local B&Q has started staffing the 'proper' checkouts because people refused to use the robot checkouts. one bloke started it and half a dozen queued up behind him: the checkout 'captain' initially refused, one woman in the queue just left her full trolley and walked out, and suddenly the spotty-faced gimp decided that of course people chould chose which checkouts they used...

i wasn't the bloke, but i did queue up behind him. B&Q here now have at least one proper checkout open whenever i go there...

 

[The Boy]

I use the scab tills at my local co-op, unless I'm buying more than three or four items, using paypoint or buying a cabbage. That's more to do with the levels of staffing and the fact senior management are obviously ok with long queues. 'Big' shops are done at Tesco on my way home from college, and I don't go near them there for myriad reasons. I certainly don't use those scan and shop devices. Horrible things.

As someone said above, the self-service check-outs are almost a side issue.

 

[The Boy]

not true - my local B&Q has started staffing the 'proper' checkouts because people refused to use the robot checkouts. one bloke started it and half a dozen queued up behind him: the checkout 'captain' initially refused, one woman in the queue just left her full trolley and walked out, and suddenly the spotty-faced gimp decided that of course people chould chose which checkouts they used...

i wasn't the bloke, but i did queue up behind him. B&Q here now have at least one proper checkout open whenever i go there...

Never understood why B&Q thought self-service was going to catch on. Often bulky or heavy items with seemingly randomly placed barcodes. The machine is the least of yer worries.

 

[maomao]

I've seen people get ANGRY operating these things...

I've upended baskets of shopping over the till and walked out on two occasions.

My problem is that I'm very tall with arthritis in my back and the packing platform is little more than two feet off the ground. I once asked very nicely if I could be served at the normal till in a Sainsbury because of this and then got told by the person who served me that self service tills were progress and said that I should use them unless I found them too difficult. I don't really want to discuss my health problems in public so I a) started a fight which ended up with the manager coming out to calm me down and b) went and complained to customer services I do feel guilty if he got in trouble but he was being a real obnoxious little cunt and I had been very polite about asking to be served and waited patiently for someone to come over.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You can do nothing but point and laugh at the kind of buffoons Marxists are. They go to shops to purchase goods they can only afford because of modern mechanisation. The reason they are not living lives of medieval back breaking toil in the fields is mechanisation but because their medieval minds can see a change they are outraged by it. Braying like cavemen that something is different therefore it must be evil.

Ugg see machine, Ugg no like bleeping thing, Ugg smash.

You obviously have a talent for imaginative fiction. Why not try your hand at sci-fi rather than "blessing" this site with it?

 

[kebabking]

Never understood why B&Q thought self-service was going to catch on. Often bulky or heavy items with seemingly randomly placed barcodes. The machine is the least of yer worries.

well, yes, lack of staff to answer (or able to answer..) questions, utterly fucked trolleys and high prices aside...

it does however show that if they think people will walk out of the door and go elsewhere, or splash the refusal all over the local rag/twitter/arsebook, they will back down in 30 seconds flat.

i do it quite regularly now in any shop i go in that uses them, i either wait in the long queue while the robot goes unused, or i just ask them to open a proper checkout. 99% of the time they are happy to do so, if not i just walk out.

 

[fredfelt]

What does efficiency mean? What does it mean to the owner? What does it mean to the worker? To the consumer? Is it really just a neutral/positive term as your first lines suggest? Is it bollocks.

I'm curious. Did my other posts answer the questions you had for me?

I'm also curious as to what you feel about the self scan machines. Do you avoid using them, preferring to hand your money to the supermarket via a person using a machine?

 

[seventh bullet]

not true - my local B&Q has started staffing the 'proper' checkouts because people refused to use the robot checkouts. one bloke started it and half a dozen queued up behind him: the checkout 'captain' initially refused, one woman in the queue just left her full trolley and walked out, and suddenly the spotty-faced gimp decided that of course people chould chose which checkouts they used...

i wasn't the bloke, but i did queue up behind him. B&Q here now have at least one proper checkout open whenever i go there...

I was thinking much more widely than self-service checkouts. Working conditions and pay and how retail workers can make their lives a lot better. I don't see how the above has any relevance to that except in how retail workers are treated/expected to be like for impatient and rude shoppers.

Maybe the 'spotty-faced gimp' was afraid of his manager, or was having to juggle other tasks behind the scenes. We are held in low esteem by both customers and senior staff, it appears.

 

[Obnoxiousness]

B&Q had all their self service tills robbed at a store in the middle of the night. £6,000 cash was stolen and at least £50,000 worth of damage was caused.

The burglar took a a bunch of 25kg bags of wood chip from a B&Q car park display and used them to build a makeshift ladder about 10 feet high. He then cut a square hole in aluminium sheeting and insulation material and climbed through on to a shelving unit inside. Once in the store, he forced four self service tills, and took a quantity of notes which he put into his rucksack before leaving the same way that he got in.

This, in my opinion, is a big design problem... leaving cash in these things overnight. They really need to revisit the cash input/output system.

 

[brogdale]

This, in my opinion, is a big design problem... leaving cash in these things overnight. They really need to revisit the cash input/output system.

Who cares? They're thieving, profiteering fuckers anyway.

 

[Obnoxiousness]

 

[hot air baboon]

....I object to paying to do the work they used to pay their staff to do....it would at least make more sense to be able to scan each item as you walk round the shop with a hand-held "thingy" and then you've got the whole thing totted up when you check out...( esp dealing with all those bastard Tesco money off coupons I have clogging up my wallet )

they could keep the staff to do the cash/card payment at the end...they're no more interested in the customers than the staff...

 

[J Ed]

....I object to paying to do the work they used to pay their staff to do....

Luddite! Shifting the labour/monetary cost from the corporation to the consumer/worker is progress! Do you wear clogs as well?!

 

[DotCommunist]

....I object to paying to do the work they used to pay their staff to do....it would at least make more sense to be able to scan each item as you walk round the shop with a hand-held "thingy" and then you've got the whole thing totted up when you check out...( esp dealing with all those bastard Tesco money off coupons I have clogging up my wallet )

they could keep the staff to do the cash/card payment at the end...they're no more interested in the customers than the staff...

apparently they have just that in some waitrose, you scan as you go.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Has anyone measured the difference in speed between untrained shoppers and an experienced member of staff? I strongly suspect that we are all waiting longer on average than we did before. I wouldn't be surprised if a good checkout person were at least twice as fast as your average shopper.

 

[friendofdorothy]

It's only reactionary Daily Express types and the permanently bewildered who can't work them.

I never read the Express.

Aren't the bewildered allowed to go shopping anymore?