Rock and roll death watch (and indie landfill)
- Thread starter Slo-mo
- Start date
cybershot
Well-Known Member
It’s not dead but it’s certainly not fresh.
You only have to look at the likes of download festival headliners which generally seem to be the same bands on roatation for the past 10+ years.
I do wonder how such festivals will survive once these bands finally call it a day.
You only have to look at the likes of download festival headliners which generally seem to be the same bands on roatation for the past 10+ years.
I do wonder how such festivals will survive once these bands finally call it a day.
DotCommunist
So many particulars. So many questions.
hey hey, my my.
True. Very true. I clearly remember people saying it when I was 15, and Britpop and Grunge were along with a few years.
But it's been over a decade now since any significant guitar music movement. That's quite a long time.
Of course no form of music *totally* dies. But I do think of a comparison with big band and similar jazz based music. Seventy years ago it still ruled most young people's worlds. Move on twenty years it was looking like old hat. By the eighties no one under fifty was listening to it. Now it's effectively dead
Of course there are still a handful of big bands, even one with a direct lineage back to Glenn Miller's band. They probably write and record new stuff. But the chances of it ever again meaning anything to more than 0.1% of anyone under 30 are effectively zero.
I think changes in the way people consume music over the last decade has made the kind of monolithic musical movements that characterised the second half of the 20th century less possible. Scenes are much more fragmented, and there is a LOT less money sloshing around which means that even for moderately successful bands it's essentially a hobby. But that's the same for everything, not just rock music.
But it's there, and when it's good it's as good as it ever was, even if it's performed in smaller venues. Go to some gigs.
But it's there, and when it's good it's as good as it ever was, even if it's performed in smaller venues. Go to some gigs.
Fair point. I would say three to six piece guitar based bands with real drums. That's a fairly narrow definition, for sure.
Sure, but wasn't that how jazz was in the 80s? Sustained by low circulation magazines, word of mouth and the odd specialist radio show? To be fair you then go on to say
I'm 44 and I've no desire to be into today's music or todays youth culture. You can get away with it in your early 30s maybe. In your forties it's just weird.
I'm not even saying the death of rock is bad thing. It's just interesting
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
This article argues why if "rock'n'roll" (as in guitar based bands) has a future - then its female.
Once More Unto the Breach Sisters: ILL live in Leeds - Gigs - Reviews - Soundblab
I think being in a band - however you define it - is less and less of a thing for young people. And pop music doesn't dominate youth culture as it used to. Its much easier - and cheaper - to do it yourself with maybe one other. I very rarely see bands made up of youngster any more - whilst its was pretty standard in my day. My first proper band we were aged 16 - 19. That was normal then - would be pretty unusual now.
Once More Unto the Breach Sisters: ILL live in Leeds - Gigs - Reviews - Soundblab
I think being in a band - however you define it - is less and less of a thing for young people. And pop music doesn't dominate youth culture as it used to. Its much easier - and cheaper - to do it yourself with maybe one other. I very rarely see bands made up of youngster any more - whilst its was pretty standard in my day. My first proper band we were aged 16 - 19. That was normal then - would be pretty unusual now.
How did you arrive at your theory that rock is dead? How are you judging it? Album sales when no-one buys albums of any genre anymore? Music press circulation when paper publication has been abandoned everywhere? Attendance at shows you refuse to go to?
Why, by the number of Urbanities who agree with me of course
Joking aside, I don't think you can measure this quantitatively.
You don't appear to be able to measure it qualitatively either, seeing as you won't check out what's actually going on now...
That you have landfill indie and britpop - both inventions of the music press/industry - as your two most recent benchmarks of rock & roll significance says a lot about how much attention you've ever paid tbh.
That you have landfill indie and britpop - both inventions of the music press/industry - as your two most recent benchmarks of rock & roll significance says a lot about how much attention you've ever paid tbh.
Agreed. And it might well outlive me. But from1958 to the dawn of Beatlemania and the first Stones hits was about 6 years. It's been double that now.
Final point for now.
Every form of music that dominated 100 years ago- the light operettas from the likes of Gilbert and Sullivan, the bawdy music hall of the cities and the centuries old folk music of the countryside was dead or irrelevant by the sixties. Killed by the jazz/swing juggernaut, finally buried by rock and roll.
Rock and roll has had a darn good run. But I think this finally could be it.
Every form of music that dominated 100 years ago- the light operettas from the likes of Gilbert and Sullivan, the bawdy music hall of the cities and the centuries old folk music of the countryside was dead or irrelevant by the sixties. Killed by the jazz/swing juggernaut, finally buried by rock and roll.
Rock and roll has had a darn good run. But I think this finally could be it.
Steel Icarus
we move
Why would you feel the need to be into modern stuff? It would be like my mum saying she was into The Cure back when I was.
Music's about discovery, imo. Doesn't matter how little rock music is being released now as there's an enormous amount I still haven't heard and am getting round to.
Of the three, music forms I cited folk undoubtedly fared best in the later 20th century. Arguably I shouldn't have used it at all.
Ok so two music forms dead, one with a pretty decent cult following. I think my point still stands.
Music hall was still massive in the 60s too. Look at Mrs Mills' album sales. Ken Dodd had one of the biggest selling singles of the decade.
Steel Icarus
we move
Nothing. It would just have been a big surprise.
SheilaNaGig
Break requested
First off, rock and roll isn’t about having a real drummer, it’s about the electric guitar. There are plenty of RnR bands that don’t have a drummer. Suicide, Big Black, Carter USM, The Kills....
(ETA Although not all RnR bands use the electric guitar either.... like Suicide...)
Second, just because you (or I) aren’t aware of a new scene bubbling up doesn’t mean RnR is dead. Right now in South London there’s a really interesting thing going on with a whole bunch of bands. Fat White Family/Moonlandingz, Phobophobes, Pregoblin, Meatraffle, Insecure Men, Shame, Goat Girl, Hotel Lux... And there are other scenes happening in other cities too.
Hookworms from Leeds formed in 2010, they’re on their third LP and they’re doing alright. Starcrawler from LA are touring their first LP and they’re barely out of their teens.
The NME has folded but we have some pretty good online organs: The Quietus, Pitchfork, Drowned in Sound... There are some really interesting satellite projects too, like HATE magazine.
Studio based music, keyboard based music, like dance, EDM, grime, Dubstep, hip hop etc are huge now, and will probably stay bigger than RnR for the foreseeable future. Maybe because it’s cheaper and easier to make and commodify than RnR (lots of people in a band, rehearsal space, touring, contracts, it’s all more logistically complicated at every level).
It’s bollocks that only young’uns are into RnR and it’s total bollocks that being into it as a grown up is “sad”. I’m in my fifties and I was as out at a gig the other night with a few fellow oldsters and a room full of truly gorgeous bright creative young’uns. And we weren’t the saddoes at the back of the room, there’s plenty of interaction. In fact there’s mutual respect because we’ve been around and know more, and they’re keeping it vital and reinventing the form.
I’d hate to be without Iggy and the 13th Floor Elevators, but I’d hate it more if that was all I had to listen to forever. The thrill of hearing a new band on the radio or at a gig, that I know I’m going to enjoy hearing new music from in the future never gets dull for me. And I know I’m not alone in that.
The huge response to the death of Mark E Smith is a reminder of how important RnR is to a lot of people. Not just people over 40, but a lot of young people also respect and love The Fall. And I’m seeing my nieces and nephews and godchildren exploring RnR too. One of them came to me recently and asked me to tell her about Sylvia Plath and Ted Hughes, and Lou Reed and Patti Smith too. Another is sharing with me her journey through Bowie’s back catalogue and introducing me to new bands she’s falling in love with, and she seems to form a new band with her mates every month.
It may never be at the forefront of teen culture again, but it’s not going anywhere for the time being, that’s for sure.
(ETA Although not all RnR bands use the electric guitar either.... like Suicide...)
Second, just because you (or I) aren’t aware of a new scene bubbling up doesn’t mean RnR is dead. Right now in South London there’s a really interesting thing going on with a whole bunch of bands. Fat White Family/Moonlandingz, Phobophobes, Pregoblin, Meatraffle, Insecure Men, Shame, Goat Girl, Hotel Lux... And there are other scenes happening in other cities too.
Hookworms from Leeds formed in 2010, they’re on their third LP and they’re doing alright. Starcrawler from LA are touring their first LP and they’re barely out of their teens.
The NME has folded but we have some pretty good online organs: The Quietus, Pitchfork, Drowned in Sound... There are some really interesting satellite projects too, like HATE magazine.
Studio based music, keyboard based music, like dance, EDM, grime, Dubstep, hip hop etc are huge now, and will probably stay bigger than RnR for the foreseeable future. Maybe because it’s cheaper and easier to make and commodify than RnR (lots of people in a band, rehearsal space, touring, contracts, it’s all more logistically complicated at every level).
It’s bollocks that only young’uns are into RnR and it’s total bollocks that being into it as a grown up is “sad”. I’m in my fifties and I was as out at a gig the other night with a few fellow oldsters and a room full of truly gorgeous bright creative young’uns. And we weren’t the saddoes at the back of the room, there’s plenty of interaction. In fact there’s mutual respect because we’ve been around and know more, and they’re keeping it vital and reinventing the form.
I’d hate to be without Iggy and the 13th Floor Elevators, but I’d hate it more if that was all I had to listen to forever. The thrill of hearing a new band on the radio or at a gig, that I know I’m going to enjoy hearing new music from in the future never gets dull for me. And I know I’m not alone in that.
The huge response to the death of Mark E Smith is a reminder of how important RnR is to a lot of people. Not just people over 40, but a lot of young people also respect and love The Fall. And I’m seeing my nieces and nephews and godchildren exploring RnR too. One of them came to me recently and asked me to tell her about Sylvia Plath and Ted Hughes, and Lou Reed and Patti Smith too. Another is sharing with me her journey through Bowie’s back catalogue and introducing me to new bands she’s falling in love with, and she seems to form a new band with her mates every month.
It may never be at the forefront of teen culture again, but it’s not going anywhere for the time being, that’s for sure.
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Well you can't really call 'Tears' a music hall song, even if Ken himself was pretty much a music hall style entertainer.Still, good to know that your understanding of popular music of the past is about as deep as it is of popular music of today.
But Mrs Mills I've got to give you. It would be interesting to know who was buying those records though, many people who went to the music hall as children would still have been alive in the sixties and seventies.
existentialist
Tired and unemotional
Depends on your definition of "dead", I suppose.
When I started playing in earnest, early music (Tudor/baroque/renaissance) was probably, by your definition, "dead". I was lucky enough to get in on the resurgence of that genre, and the landscape nowadays is unrecognisable - you can fill serious concert venues (with expensive tickets) for authentic performances. And that's music that is over 400 years old. I am pretty sure the same will be true of bits of many more modern genres of popular music. Including rock.
All that has really changed is that, for a while, guitar-based rock type music was the flavour of the month - it's what people who were more interested in music as a social thing or a fashion accessory bought. Then they moved to disco, R&B, rap, funk, all those other genres, with occasional forays back into guitar-based stuff. Just because a particular genre of music doesn't trouble the charts for a few years doesn't make it dead.
Nanker Phelge
Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.
Rock 'n' roll aint dying. You are.
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