riots in paris banlieu...

[Divisive Cotton]

There's no evidence whatsoever that this happened. The usual group of looney-left groups are responsible for starting this rumour. Or let's even further, suppose it was true what the hell difference does it make? Why were they running from the police?

If the cops were chasing them it's probably for a reason. Probably they beat somebody up, held up a store or raped some woman unlucky enough to be on her own in their 'territory'. Let's get serious... what do you want the police to do? Pat them on the back?

That's not even touching the fact that they killed themselves. Nobody told them to go into an electric sub-station... Unkinder people than me would say you're seeing the theory of evolution in action.

Finally why are you talking about 'banlieus'? Just call them neighbourhoods, suburbs or estates which is what they are. Importing words from other languages for no reason doesn't make you look trendy. And yes superficial details aside you do get the same things in big cities here in Britain.

This is hilarious - 0/10 for trolling. The scary thought is that he isn't trolling... he thinks he presenting an argument!

 

[kasheem]

you don't know the french police and their ways, do you?

Do you? And no, fictional film characters don't count...

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Do you? And no, fictional film characters don't count...

I do, actually.

 

[ether]

putain, les flics sonts cons en France

 

[guinnessdrinker]

putain, les flics sonts cons en France

tout le monde est con, mais les poulets sont les rois des connards.

 

[gawkrodger]

well it's spreading to other areas now

 

[Barking_Mad]

Yeah, reported on the news that 10 towns on the outskirts of Paris had seen trouble overnight.

 

[Poi E]

6 nights so far...

 

[where to]

this is growing.

quite strange to me that the riots in birmingham and france are happening at what is the start of winter.

sarko was on the french telly last night. the guy is crazy, but totally engrossing. he was walking through the one of these areas at night surrounded by a massive press entourage etc. he was walking under a bridge, its hard to describe but there were hundreds, maybe a few thousand people on the edge of walls looking down, some booing, some shouting, whatever. anyone could have thrown anything at him whatever. he gets right underneath the bridge and almost unable to control himself, like he had tourettes or something, he shouts up at this guy "aye, i bet you're getting sick of this damn rabble aren't you, i'm going to get them, i'm going to fix this".

i can't describe the look on his face.
he is unlike any politician i have seen in my life.

you just get the feeling that something big could happen in france in the next 18 months.

 

[tobyjug]

not really heard much on this. thoughts?

There were more reports on the trouble in Birmingham on French TV than about the problems in Paris. (I have just got back from holiday in Brittany).

 

[Pickman's model]

There were more reports on the trouble in Birmingham on French TV than about the problems in Paris. (I have just got back from holiday in Brittany).

thank fuck for that! i thought you were lost & gone forever!

d'you go st malo?

 

[tobyjug]

thank fuck for that! i thought you were lost & gone forever!

d'you go st malo?

Not St Malo, wrong ferry for me. I go Plymouth/Roscoff.

 

[where to]

There were more reports on the trouble in Birmingham on French TV than about the problems in Paris. (I have just got back from holiday in Brittany).

thats not the case on the french tv i watch.

 

[tobyjug]

thats not the case on the french tv i watch.

Well it was the case on the TV in Brittany. I was to be honest somewhat surprised at the amount on French TV about the problems in Birmingham.

 

[where to]

Well it was the case on the TV in Brittany. I was to be honest somewhat surprised at the amount on French TV about the problems in Birmingham.

i think its a worry for the french. so far generally on the estates the rioters are mixed. if they start fighting amongst eachother like in the uk (multiculturalism ) then they are going to be truly fucked.

also, this is a story that is getting bigger by the day. the first night or two of trouble was not really that unusual - did you see the news last night?

 

[tobyjug]

i think its a worry for the french. so far generally on the estates the rioters are mixed. if they start fighting amongst eachother like in the uk (multiculturalism ) then they are going to be truly fucked.

also, this is a story that is getting bigger by the day. the first night or two of trouble was not really that unusual - did you see the news last night?

I left Roscoff on the midday ferry yesterday (Tuesday 1st November) so I did not see last nights news.

 

[where to]

they spent about 10 of the 30 mins on it last night on TV5.

whereabout in brittany where you? when i lived in france as a kid we used to go up to cancale. also to st cast le guido a couple of times too. fucking got to love it, the creamy french fish sauce dishes and that

 

[tobyjug]

whereabout in brittany where you?

Where the fishermen wear clogs.
and the bar is somewhat partisan.
Nemestra ma plis,(the same again please).
(20 miles North of Brest, 35 miles West of Roscoff. If we were any nearer the sea we would be wading.

 

[Sue]

The CRS (riot police) that Sarkozy is talking about sending in in ever greater numbers are complete and utter fuckers. No idea whether those kids were chased or not and no doubt things were ripe to kick off anyway, but sending in the CRS is so not going to help things.

The root cause of the problems with the banlieues is in my opinion not that different to the root causes of the problems in many estates here -- just things are made much worse by some particularly French factors. Not got time to go into this now but will try to when I've a moment.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

this is growing.

quite strange to me that the riots in birmingham and france are happening at what is the start of winter.

sarko was on the french telly last night. the guy is crazy, but totally engrossing. he was walking through the one of these areas at night surrounded by a massive press entourage etc. he was walking under a bridge, its hard to describe but there were hundreds, maybe a few thousand people on the edge of walls looking down, some booing, some shouting, whatever. anyone could have thrown anything at him whatever. he gets right underneath the bridge and almost unable to control himself, like he had tourettes or something, he shouts up at this guy "aye, i bet you're getting sick of this damn rabble aren't you, i'm going to get them, i'm going to fix this".

i can't describe the look on his face.
he is unlike any politician i have seen in my life.

you just get the feeling that something big could happen in france in the next 18 months.

that guy is indeed crazy. he believes in zero tolerance and look at the results. he is a leading candidate on the right for the presidential election in 18 months time and presumably want to increase his profile....

 

[districtline]

If the cops were chasing them it's probably for a reason. Probably they beat somebody up, held up a store or raped some woman unlucky enough to be on her own in their 'territory'. Let's get serious... what do you want the police to do? Pat them on the back?

i'm not really sure if this argument is valid anymore after what happened at stockwell tube station...

 

[guinnessdrinker]

they did not have any criminal records and it is thought they fled a routine ID check (done frequently in these parts of the world) because they thought they might be roughed up (also rather common, 2 french coppers were convicted of beating up a drug addict, according to le monde today).

nobody thinks they were up to no good that day, not even the police (although originally they gave two contradictory statements, now retracted,
suggesting they were being sought for something or other). in fact, they were coming back from a football match.
so what if they "killed themselves", they panicked and might not have known what they were entering.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

About what you said you may be right, there's corruption in all walks of life. But I don't see what it's got to do with the matter at hand - that a group of low-life scum ran into an electric substation and short-circuited (not very hard) their brains.

they were not low-life scum, or show us the evidence for that. they did not any criminal records.

 

[gawkrodger]

they were not low-life scum, or show us the evidence for that. they did not any criminal records.

i made that point 2 pages ago and he's quietly ignored it. I imagine he'll do the same again

 

[guinnessdrinker]

i made that point 2 pages ago and he's quietly ignored it. I imagine he'll do the same again

he seems to have left the thread. maybe he's realised that he is on a loser over this one...

 

[where to]

seventh night running and no let up, although the initial flashpoint town clichy sous bois seems to have quietened.

BBC report

BBC pictures

i thought this was quite interesting:

"Wednesday night's violence erupted in nine areas across the Paris department of Seine-Saint-Denis, home to largely poor north African communities. The night's trouble began after the end of a European football match between Lille and Manchester United at Stade de France, in Saint Denis."

i was in saint denis a couple of years ago. its not your typical idea of a suburban ghetto slum by any means. theres a huge and rather lovely cathedral, nice shopping high street, old town hall. walked around for a couple of hours, very busy streets -must have seen a good couple of thousand faces, and only about ten of them in the whole afternoon would have been white.

but i thought it was quite a nice place tbh. i suppose it was only the centre to housing nearby which i would not have seen though maybe.

 

[gosub]

Spent about six months living round Saint Denis and Sarcelles, about 15 years ago probably changed a bit but I didn't find it that bad the estates are a bit of a maze - reminded me most of Fratton Park

 

[Sue]

Okay, discussion of why all this has happened (my opinion so feel free to shoot it down in flames as necessary...)

1. Lack of integration and not just in the banlieue either. Lip service may be paid to the idea of egalite but some French people are certainly more equal than others. Unusual to see mixed race groups of friends which is perhaps partly down to...

2. Casual racism. Sure there's racism here but in France (and apologies to any French people reading this -- love France and have many French friends and all that -- but it's true), it's much worse. The number of times people in conversation (and we're talking nice, white, middle class, educated people here...) have casually mentioned in passing how North Africans are all thieves/ cheats/whatever else. Generally have real problems understanding why I then have a go at them for it.

3. Lack of employment/crap education. With unemployment in France in general being v high and the economy being stagnant, unemployment among young people is extremely high. And all this is much much worse in the banlieue and exacerbated by the French way of doing things education-wise.

4. Alienation, compounded by a lack of representation. Remember a few years ago talking to a friend who grew up in Seine-Saint-Denis. He told me that in the last set of local elections (this is a few years ago now) none of the main parties could be bothered standing -- so the choice was between the Far Left and the Far Right. As he said to me then, obviously the main parties don't give a toss if they can't even be bothered standing for election because they view us as not worth the effort.

5. Racism in the police. Go to an immigrant area and watch the CRS stop and hassle every non-white (or potentially North African) young male walking past. Obviously the CRS are fucking awful anyway but how much worse if you're non-white and male and young.

6. Erm sure's there's some other stuff but my lunch break's over and really need to get back to work. Be interested to see what anyone else thinks...

 

[Sue]

Spent about six months living round Saint Denis and Sarcelles, about 15 years ago probably changed a bit but I didn't find it that bad the estates are a bit of a maze - reminded me most of Fratton Park

A friend's family live in Sarcelles. Lovely flat with underfloor heating.

 

[where to]

Sue:

1. Lack of integration and not just in the banlieue either. Lip service may be paid to the idea of egalite but some French people are certainly more equal than others. Unusual to see mixed race groups of friends which is perhaps partly down to...

thats simply not true. if you look at the folk rioting they are mixed race groups. okay theres not many white, but they are mixed. unlike bradford and the like in the uk where you have situations like birmingham - blacks vs asians.

2. "Sure there's racism here but in France it's much worse."

evidence please.

3. "Lack of employment/crap education. With unemployment in France in general being v high and the economy being stagnant, unemployment among young people is extremely high. And all this is much much worse in the banlieue and exacerbated by the French way of doing things education-wise."

hows that?

four and five sound about right.