Respect get sent to Siberia!

[oisleep]

i havn't seen anything apart from Guy Taylor's couple of paragraph report on the respect website and a couple of snaps from his mobile phone camera, i'm sure if it had been in the press it would be linked to from respect's site, any sniff of publicity in the press and they link to it

 

[Pickman's model]

still nothing from gallahway in the house...

 

[JWH]

Sounds like a complete failure and pointless pollution of the atmosphere, in that case.

a couple of snaps from his mobile phone camera

They flew to Siberia and didn't take a decent camera?

 

[oisleep]

apparently it was all cloak and dagger stuff you see, fearless guy managed to evade his russian minders to snap a few pics

although i'm sure the helicopter they hired to ferry them around the area would have 1) caused a fair bit of pollution and 2) done more to highlight their presence than a small camera would have done

 

[moti]

the truth

oisleep you little tosser

has it crossed your mind that the Russians asked for Respect to help and paid for the trip? (which they did) the reason being the oil company in Russia's major shareholder is BP (that's British Petroleum to you) having a western activist there and doing a press conference meant the campaign got in scores of newspapers and have got more media converage than anything else they've ever done, so there very happy...

Guy was asked as GR has been doing lots of work with the campaign against climate change -including organising meetings and building for the demo- recently and Gr has actually approached all the environmental groups and Green Party to help but have got a "sorry it's abroad we're too busy etc answer"

Respect of course wants to develop it's environmental side because it's an integral part of changing the world and that's why the russians from INPROG came over and did a press conference with Galloway and protest here outside BP last week nothing wrong with that

more video and photo footage is too come

so put your poison back in the bottle - dickhead

 

[oisleep]

i thought he was aksed as he had fuck all else to do

"building for the demo"

so if you're so knowledgable can you let us know when galloway is going to raise this in the house to to publicise it further?

also, if guy taylor's report on the respect website is correct and camera's were not allowed: -

Although we were prohibited from filming or taking photographs I did manage to sneak a few shots from my mobile phone - rather unsatisfactory images through a murky window whilst avoiding the gaze of our minder

where have these additional video & photos come from? i presume nothing to do with repsect's dalliance there

tosser? dickhead?

 

[Pickman's model]

richard younger-ross mentioned siberia in european standing committee 'b' on 21 october: http://www.publications.parliament....0/51020s03.htm#muscat_highlighter_first_match

but galloway seems to have forgotten all about it.

 

[JWH]

has it crossed your mind that the Russians asked for Respect to help and paid for the trip? (which they did)

1) I notice that the Russian language coverage of the trip doesn't mention Kagarlitsky and INPROG at all, it highlights the role of Valery Gartung, a Duma Deputy. Who exactly was the inviting party - Gartung or Kagarlitsky?

2) Who owns IPROG? Who funds IPROG?

3) I notice that Gartung who was a member of the authoritarian pro-Putin United Russia party until February 2005, when he went off to the Pensioners' Party in Russia. At what point did Gartung become an acceptable partner of Respect?

Call me cynical ( ) but I think that heart of the story is here, where Guy Taylor says, "the state bodies in the region serve the interests of Alfa Group, and don't protect the rights of people to have a clean environment". I suspect strongly that this is a case of Taylor and Respect being "useful idiots" in the cause of Alfa Group's opponents who want to have BP-TNK's rights to the oilfield removed. In 2004, the corrupt state bodies were suggesting that the rights should be cancelled. Taylor is quoted as saying he doesn't want BP-TNK to be fined, he wants the license cancelled. Interesting.

Given the trend of increasing state/silovik control over the oil and gas sector, can anyone guess who the parties that would gain most from the cancellation of BP-TNK's licence would be?

 

[bolshiebhoy]

He also has a unique ability to get under the skins of establishment politicians and make them look very foolish.

Even in your sad sectarian existance you can't deny GG's ability to do that to any establishment forum that gives him a hearing. JH is tolerated as a bufoon in the same way Dennis Skinner is in the Brit parliament. Unlike GG.

 

[JWH]

By the way, more speculation this week that the Pensioners' Party is a front for Putin and United Russia (sorry for C&P odyessey but it goes to archive after 24 hours):

Thursday, October 27, 2005. Issue 3283. Page 5.

Aa Aa Aa

A Battle for Control of Pensioners' Party
By Oksana Yablokova
Staff Writer

The populist Pensioners' Party was cast into turmoil Wednesday as State Duma Deputy Valery Gartung insisted that he remained in charge but other senior officials refused to recognize either him or a rival living in Portugal as leader.

Gartung blamed the Kremlin for the strife, saying it was trying to weaken the party ahead of the next State Duma elections.

Once a dark horse, the Pensioners' Party has emerged as a major player in regional elections over the past year, stealing votes from United Russia and the Communists alike.

"The party's success has been very evident, threatening the party of power, so Kremlin bureaucrats have decided to split and behead the party," Gartung said by telephone.

United Russia, the pro-Kremlin party that dominates the State Duma and most regional legislatures, is widely referred to as the party of power.

Gartung's problems began earlier this month when Sergei Atroshenko, whom he had ousted as party leader in February 2004, struck back and won back the rights to lead the party in the Moscow City Court. On Monday, a Justice Ministry agency issued a registration for the party that identified Atroshenko as leader. As a result, Gartung's party has been barred from running in elections for the Moscow City Duma and the Chelyabinsk regional legislature in December.


Gartung, a Chelyabinsk native, was once a member of United Russia's faction in the State Duma, and he helped President Vladimir Putin win the Chelyabinsk vote in the 2000 presidential election.

Atroshenko, who lives in Portugal, could not be reached for comment. But he told RIA-Novosti on Monday that Gartung had illegally taken over as head of the Pensioners' Party and that the court had rightfully reinstated him as leader.

Gartung said he was preparing to sue the Justice Ministry agency over the registration.

On Wednesday, the party's central committee announced that it would not recognize Gartung or Atroshenko as leader and called for a party congress to pick a new leader on Dec. 17. It said in a statement that Atroshenko was unfit because he had lived abroad for too long and that Gartung was "too ambitious." Gartung said he was willing to step aside if the congress picked a replacement.

The dispute threatens to damage the image of a party that had previously managed to stay away from internal turmoil. Most major parties have been tainted by internal turmoil at one time or another. "The Pensioners' Party was a successful political project that attracted protest votes thanks to its social orientation," said Alexei Makarkin, a political analyst with the Center for Political Technologies.

He expressed doubt about Gartung's claim that the Kremlin was orchestrating a campaign against the party, saying he believed the Kremlin wanted it to act as a spoiler in 2007 Duma elections, stealing 2 percent to 3 percent of the vote from the Communists -- just as it did in the 2003 Duma elections.

The Pensioners' Party, like the nationalist Rodina party, is thought to have been set up with the Kremlin's blessing to steal votes from the Communists. Both parties, however, have taken on lives of their own. As such, the Kremlin might be trying to regain some control over the Pensioners' Party, or at least trying to weaken it, said Yury Korgunyuk, a political analyst with the Indem think tank. "The Kremlin has to resort to the role of firefighter, putting out a fire that it started and that then went out of its control," he said.

The Kremlin might be counting on the Pensioners' Party to help United Russia retain control of the Duma in 2007, Kommersant speculated this week. The newspaper also said Ivan Lapshin, the outgoing governor of the Altai republic, might be picked as the party's leader. Lapshin's term as governor ends in January, and the Kremlin has decided not to keep him on.

The Pensioners' Party's recent record in the regional elections has been impressive.

Earlier this month, it narrowly beat out United Russia in Tomsk legislative elections, taking slightly more than 19 percent of the vote, compared to United Russia's 17 percent.

In May, the party placed second in Magadan elections, with 20 percent of the vote. United Russia got about 29 percent.

The party was founded in 1997.

Anyone Respect supporters got any suggested answers for my questions?

 

[Pickman's model]

still nothing from galloway about siberia.

however, it's unlikely he'll raise it in the near future as he's fled the country.

 

[oisleep]

did fisher_gate give any indicative date as to when he expected sir george to get round to raising the matter?

also, still awaiting these additional photos & video footage that some guy taylor asslicking poster promised a page or so back

 

[JWH]

OTOH, given the reluctance of Russia to extradite its political allies (see: various Serbians and Kuchma-era Ukrainians), maybe Galloway is considering a relocation if it all looks a bit iffy with the US investigation. He wouldn't be the first dodgy politician from this part of the world to end up doing business there: http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/breaking/6569059?view=Eircomnet

It's quite warm in the south, you know, he could still be orange.

 

[Pickman's model]

the ruc mp has still not mentioned siberia.

 

[Pickman's model]

the ruc mp has still not mentioned siberia.

 

[oisleep]

he's obviously been far too busy ensuring all his reactinary whacko types mates remain on the respect national council to be worried by things like siberia

 

[Fisher_Gate]

He's actually been busy signing Early Day Motions, no less than 21 signed last Friday from other MPs. Everything from votes at 16 to local shops vs supermarkets.

It's a way for MPs to raise an issue and is often done on a quid pro quo - 'you sign mine and I'll sign yours' basis. So if you go around signing someone elses you can go back and ask them to return the favour. Occassionally they can get to speak on them. See link below.

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMByMember.aspx?MID=3367&SESSION=875

Might be a good idea to keep a watch on it, as you are so keen on everything George does.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Just been reading them in detail and actually the EDM from Austin Mitchell is rather important.

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMDetails.aspx?EDMID=29141&SESSION=875

THE BIOLOGICAL AND TOXIN WEAPONS CONVENTION AND IRAQ
20.10.2005


Mitchell, Austin

That this House notes that the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention binds signatories not to transfer to any nation any agents, toxins, weapons and equipment of biological and toxin warfare and provides that any nation finding another signatory in breach of this undertaking may lodge a complaint to the UN Security Council; notes that the Riegle Report to the US Senate has published evidence that the US sold bacillus anthracis, clostridium botulinum, histoplasma capsulatum, brucella, melitensis and clostridium perfringens to agencies of the Iraqi government pursuant to export licences issued by the US Department of Commerce, at a time when the US was fully aware of the Iraqi biological warfare programme and that these exports have been fully documented noting, in particular, that the US sales included Vollum strain anthrax, found by the Iraq Survey Group to be the strain of anthrax used in the Iraqi biological weapons programme, and which, as reported in The Times of 9th August, originated from a dead cow in Oxfordshire; calls on the Government to report these sales to the Security Council in the light of its commitment in the April 2002 Green Paper, Strengthening the Biological and Toxin Weapons Convention, that those at every level responsible for any breach of international law relating to the use of such weapons will be held personally accountable; and urges the Prime Minister either to lodge the necessary complaint with the Security Council or change the UK's stated policy after an appropriate public announcement and discussion.

 

[JWH]

Any news on Siberian pollution or their reaction to the accusation their partner in Russia is a front for the autocrat Putin?

 

[Random]

I don't understand -- why would RUC pick up this issue and then drop it? I really do think it was just a junket/bone for poor old GT.

 

[oisleep]

He's actually been busy signing Early Day Motions, no less than 21 signed last Friday from other MPs. Everything from votes at 16 to local shops vs supermarkets.

It's a way for MPs to raise an issue and is often done on a quid pro quo - 'you sign mine and I'll sign yours' basis. So if you go around signing someone elses you can go back and ask them to return the favour. Occassionally they can get to speak on them. See link below.

http://edmi.parliament.uk/EDMi/EDMByMember.aspx?MID=3367&SESSION=875

Might be a good idea to keep a watch on it, as you are so keen on everything George does.

could you try and stay on topic please or point out why signing 21 edm's and raising the issue of siberia are mutually exclusive?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

Any news on Siberian pollution or their reaction to the accusation their partner in Russia is a front for the autocrat Putin?

The Respect website makes it clear (http://www.respectcoalition.org/index.php?ite=888) it was Kagarlitsky and IPROG who organised the invite and Kagarlitsky came himself to London.

Please don't pretend that he's a front for Putin - as his own website explains, he organised a boycott campaign for the 2000 Presidential election and has been arrested and detained as a political prisoner by numerous governments - stalinist and more recently.

http://www.iprog.ru/en/staff/?id=2

Once you've spent a couple of years in stalinist jails, maybe you'll have enough political authority to comment on who supports Putin and who doesn't.

 

[Fisher_Gate]

could you try and stay on topic please or point out why signing 21 edm's and raising the issue of siberia are mutually exclusive?

On keeping on topic, I think 'pots' and 'kettles' spring to mind ... you said ...

he's obviously been far too busy ensuring all his reactinary whacko types mates remain on the respect national council to be worried by things like siberia

I showed that he's been busy in the House supporting EDMs. According to one report I read, he proposed an EDM in July on this, but it's no longer 'active' so I can't produce any proof.

It's pure supposition on my part, but I'm assuming that he's preparing the ground for another EDM on Siberia - we'll see if I'm right, but he certainly hasn't been neglecting parliamentary duties which is what you keep claiming.

 

[oisleep]

but if he proposed an EDM in July on this why the need for Guy Taylor to go to Siberia in October, what additional information did Guy's visit provide (that couldn't have easily and much more cheapily obtained direct from their russian contacts by email) that would enable George to "raise the matter more efffectively" in another motion?

 

[Fisher_Gate]

but if he proposed an EDM in July on this why the need for Guy Taylor to go to Siberia in October, what additional information did Guy's visit provide (that couldn't have easily and much more cheapily obtained direct from their russian contacts by email) that would enable George to "raise the matter more efffectively" in another motion?

I'm getting bored with this dialogue of the deaf.

Since you are so concerned, why don't you write to George and ask him?

 

[oisleep]

well as far as i'm aware he has never said he would raise the isssue, it was you who asserted that he would, so what do you propose i say in my letter "dear george, there's this guy of the internet said you'd raise something but you havn't, what you playing at?"

edit: as below

I presume Galloway will raise this in the House of Commons when it reconvenes following the recess

 

[JWH]

Please don't pretend that [Kagarlitsky] is a front for Putin...Once you've spent a couple of years in stalinist jails, maybe you'll have enough political authority to comment on who supports Putin and who doesn't.

1) I didn't say he was a front for Putin. I said that Vakhtang+Pensioners' Party, with whom Respect gave a press conference in Moscow, had been accused of it. Vakhtang is a former member of the United Russia party, which is Putin's support base. I think we might be able to have a more construtctive discussion if we both read each other's posts carefully.

2) Kagarlitsky was locked up in late 1970s/early 1980s, after Stalinism.

3) any sentence that begins "Once you've spent a couple of years in stalinist jails..." is going to be hard to take seriously, so maybe they would be better to leave out.

Edit: to make less negative.

 

[JWH]

How much time does it take to sign an EDM?

 

[Pickman's model]

How much time does it take to sign an EDM?

how long does it take you to sign your name?

 

[Pickman's model]

the ruc mp has still not mentioned siberia.