Re-opening Schools?

[SpookyFrank]

You haven’t understood what I said. I’ll say is more briefly. I said I acknowledge there’s an argument that private schools need to close (am undecided personally, swing one way and another), but State schools need to massively step up their game. With both exam results and teaching, but also crucially with cultural capital.

(And yes my eldest went for 18 months but his Dad leaving meant that was impossible- that plus truth be told his behaviour wasn’t exactly exemplary enough ).

Exam results cannot simply 'step up' because exam results are norm-referenced.

 

[SpookyFrank]

How?

Not with reference to educational research, that much is clear.

 

[Edie]

It’s rather hard for schools to give kids all the opportunities when they aren’t funded properly and may be based in communities that can’t afford it either. And I wouldn’t want something that doesn’t offer opportunities to all; it can feel very top down and quite patronising too. ‘We must show the poor ignorant povs some high culture because they have none of their own’ All the trips / books etc I had were paid for as added extras in addition to the fees. Again, the resources already existed within the school community.

So just exclude them instead. Quite literally. Did you know there’s a spike in exclusions before exams?

 

[purenarcotic]

So just exclude them instead. Quite literally. Did you know there’s a spike in exclusions before exams?

Yes I did. I also know that SEN kids are illegally excluded at primary level a lot and all sorts. If you think I think that is okay then I have no idea what to say.

In private schools, you’re told not to take subjects at GCSE that you like because you aren’t likely to get an A*. I have a Latin GCSE because I was told I wasn’t good enough for Art. I am terrible at drawing, but I got the highest grade in the country at A Level Theatre Studies in my Set Design module. I am creative and I enjoyed that, but I have no confidence to give anything artistic a go now. I’m not going to boo hoo or suggest I am terribly hard done by, but I don’t think at such a young age I should have been discouraged like that. I don’t think any kid should.

 

[Edie]

Yes I did. I also know that SEN kids are illegally excluded at primary level a lot and all sorts. If you think I think that is okay then I have no idea what to say.

In private schools, you’re told not to take subjects at GCSE that you like because you aren’t likely to get an A*. I have a Latin GCSE because I was told I wasn’t good enough for Art. I am terrible at drawing, but I got the highest grade in the country at A Level Theatre Studies in my Set Design module. I am creative and I enjoyed that, but I have no confidence to give anything artistic a go now. I’m not going to boo hoo or suggest I am terribly hard done by, but I don’t think at such a young age I should have been discouraged like that. I don’t think any kid should.

Its certainly a massive downside of private education.

 

[purenarcotic]

Its certainly a massive downside of private education.

It’s a downside of the entire system we have. Do we want education to be about making little people into interested, thoughtful, kind, creative, able to think for themselves adults, or about getting pieces of paper so they can get a slightly better job than someone else and shit on those below them? Do we want only one type of ‘intelligence’ to be valued, or do we want all kids to feel like they have something of value to offer the world?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

It's impossible to "step up" state schools to match the cultural capital that public schools deliver, because the nature of the cultural capital will then just change. The whole point is to discriminate. The only way round it is to remove its importance in society outside school.

 

[goldenecitrone]

I teach A level and spent March to June teaching online every day on Teams, trying to find effective ways of checking student understanding and keeping everyone engaged in lessons, not easy when you can’t see students or check what they are doing. So I was quite surprised in September when I asked the new year 12s how their online lessons had gone. Virtually every student said that their GCSE teachers had abandoned them in April and they had barely studied anything for the last six months. No online lessons, no homework, nothing. Pretty shocking really.

 

[planetgeli]

I teach A level and spent March to June teaching online every day on Teams, trying to find effective ways of checking student understanding and keeping everyone engaged in lessons, not easy when you can’t see students or check what they are doing.

Good for you.

So I was quite surprised in September when I asked the new year 12s how their online lessons had gone. Virtually every student said that their GCSE teachers had abandoned them in April

Do you teach in Leeds? You are projecting some absolute bollocks there and I don't believe you.

and they had barely studied anything for the last six months. No online lessons, no homework, nothing. Pretty shocking really.

And these conscientious students didn't take it upon themselves to study for themselves (in the unlikely/unbelievable scenario you provide)?

Because all study has to be provided by teachers?

You're talking shit. I'd like to know why/your motives for this. It doesn't match any reality I know.

 

[Edie]

planetgeli as you are a teacher you’ll recall that GCSEs were cancelled this summer. In my experience (yes, in Leeds) year 11 (current year 12) lessons stopped pretty much at that announcement. Why is that unbelievable?

 

[planetgeli]

planetgeli as you are a teacher you’ll recall that GCSEs were cancelled this summer. In my experience (yes, in Leeds) year 11 (current year 12) lessons stopped pretty much at that announcement. Why is that unbelievable?

I think the entire tone of the post is unbelievable.

It mentions "they had barely studied anything for the last 6 months".

Why 6 months? Lessons stopped in March. Exams were due in May/June before they got cancelled - way before the exam date. So,

a) there was no 6 month study required. 6 weeks at most until the exam, not even that because exams got cancelled for teacher assessment. What are the posters motivations for saying "6 months"? Does the poster think extra tuition should have been available beyond what would have even been normal in schools? No GCSE pupil would have been doing serious classes in June/July.

b) I know a lot of teachers organized online study or even personal tutorial/support via phone. I know a lot of work was sent home by post by a lot of teachers.

That's why.

 

[SpookyFrank]

It's impossible to "step up" state schools to match the cultural capital that public schools deliver, because the nature of the cultural capital will then just change. The whole point is to discriminate. The only way round it is to remove its importance in society outside school.

All schools must be above average.

 

[Edie]

I think the entire tone of the post is unbelievable.

It mentions "they had barely studied anything for the last 6 months".

Why 6 months? Lessons stopped in March. Exams were due in May/June before they got cancelled - way before the exam date. So,

a) there was no 6 month study required. 6 weeks at most until the exam, not even that because exams got cancelled for teacher assessment. What are the posters motivations for saying "6 months"? Does the poster think extra tuition should have been available beyond what would have even been normal in schools? No GCSE pupil would have been doing classes in June/July.

b) I know a lot of teachers organized online study or even personal tutorial/support via phone. I know a lot of work was sent home by post by a lot of teachers.

That's why.

April while September. Five months then. Your tone of voice when speaking to a colleague is remarkable btw.

 

[planetgeli]

April while September. Five months then. Your time of voice when speaking to a colleague is remarkable btw.

Can you write that again in English? Kthx.

/patronising

 

[Steel Icarus]

April while September. Five months then. Your time of voice when speaking to a colleague is remarkable btw.

You do know when the school terms are, right? And when exams are held?

 

[planetgeli]

Your time of voice when speaking to a colleague is remarkable btw.

This is funny btw. You need to have half an hour in a school staffroom.

 

[Mattym]

Ventilation is really important; if you can do your tutoring in a room with an open window, it may be cold but it’ll be much safer than without a window open.

Let me just add to that- I open all the windows in the room. I don't care about the temperature or the school's uniform policy. If I feel safe with them open, then that's the way it will be. I say to pupils & contrary to the school's uniform policy- 'Put your coat on if you're cold'. Though the school has begun to realise teachers will do this.

 

[Edie]

Hopefully this is of some reassurance

Teachers no more likely than other key workers to get Covid, says ONS

Union says fall in student Covid cases over half-term is proof schools are spreading virus

www.google.co.uk

 

[purenarcotic]

There were no exams, most of them would have been finished by June if exams had gone ahead and they would have left the school. We were on study leave, only returned to school to take the exams and once we finished our GCSEs we were on holiday.... what would you have had the teachers do? Carry on teaching the material for the exams that weren’t happening?

 

[redsquirrel]

Clearly no. There should be a national curriculum but beyond that Teachers should be allowed to teach as they see fit. They should have responsibility for the kids in their class, including letting parents know how their kid is doing once a term, with a single meaningful sentence. The performance of the school should be the Headteachers concern, not the parents. And wider Social care and food parcels should not be the responsibility of school.

I suspect many teachers would be in favour of much/all of that. Few education workers are happy about the system(s), but the answer to that is not to attack workers.

 

[SpookyFrank]

There were no exams, most of them would have been finished by June if exams had gone ahead and they would have left the school. We were on study leave, only returned to school to take the exams and once we finished our GCSEs we were on holiday.... what would you have had the teachers do? Carry on teaching the material for the exams that weren’t happening?

And teach through the summer holidays.

 

[SpookyFrank]

State schools need to massively step up their game. With both exam results and teaching, but also crucially with cultural capital.

But you're not criticising teachers. Only telling them that they need to improve MASSIVELY.

 

[Edie]

I suspect many teachers would be in favour of much/all of that. Few education workers are happy about the system(s), but the answer to that is not to attack workers.

I disagree with you. It is absolutely legitimate for students and parents to criticise both individual teachers and individual schools. Just as it is legitimate to criticise the politics that has resulted in the shit show that state education is currently in. You’re telling me that I shouldn’t question their decisions, question their working practices, question their predictions about my son, question the institution and their absurd procedures that result in this? You think if this was a private school they’d get away with this, accept it without complaint? No. But you think I shouldn’t attack this because they are workers of the State? Your politics are messed up. I reject them.

 

[purenarcotic]

I don’t think RS is denying that there aren’t individuals who are shit within education. There are shit social workers, unethical doctors, dangerous youth workers... The point, again, is that this is a structural problem. It isn’t solved by gunning for front line staff as the first solution. You want to complain about a teacher. Crack on. But if you want a discussion about the education system as a whole, you have to take it away from the individual and look at the bigger picture.

 

[redsquirrel]

I don’t think RS is denying that there aren’t individuals who are shit within education. There are shit social workers, unethical doctors, dangerous youth workers... The point, again, is that this is a structural problem. It isn’t solved by gunning for front line staff as the first solution. You want to complain about a teacher. Crack on. But if you want a discussion about the education system as a whole, you have to take it away from the individual and look at the bigger picture.

Absolutely this

 

[Edie]

I don’t think RS is denying that there aren’t individuals who are shit within education. There are shit social workers, unethical doctors, dangerous youth workers... The point, again, is that this is a structural problem. It isn’t solved by gunning for front line staff as the first solution. You want to complain about a teacher. Crack on. But if you want a discussion about the education system as a whole, you have to take it away from the individual and look at the bigger picture.

I’m doing both. In fact, my criticism of a minority of teachers was only one of a number of points I made. The fact that has been magnified is not my doing. The reason it’s been magnified is dubious.

Covid has wrenched open the class divide. My son goes to one of the bottom five state schools (thanks for highlighting that Yorkshire Evening Post) in Leeds, a large industrial city in the North of England disproportionally hit by covid, at the junction of two socially deprived estates where there is significant food poverty.

What I am seeing, and what other families are angry about, is a total failure of the school. And I absolutely will question it on every level. Because when I see and hear other people talking about what their kids are being offered it makes me absolutely furious.

 

[purenarcotic]

I’m doing both. In fact, my criticism of a minority of teachers was only one of a number of points I made. The fact that has been magnified is not my doing. The reason it’s been magnified is dubious.

Covid has wrenched open the class divide. My son goes to one of the bottom five state schools (thanks for highlighting that Yorkshire Evening Post) in Leeds, a large industrial city in the North of England disproportionally hit by covid, at the junction of two socially deprived estates where there is significant food poverty.

What I am seeing, and what other families are angry about, is a total failure of the school. And I absolutely will question it on every level. Because when I see and hear other people talking about what their kids are being offered it makes me absolutely furious.

Do you think the level of deprivation in the community is linked to the schools capacity to best meet the children’s needs? You seemed to complain in one of your posts about the school handing out food parcels, but hungry children don’t learn. What do you want to happen? Because you bang on about schools stepping up but seem to be totally unable to make the link that the structural inequality that exists will influence how the education system is run and how kids will be treated as a result. Your only solution seems to be to look at the private system, which is only able to have the standards it does because those who attend are not worrying about whether there will be electric on tonight.

 

[Edie]

Do you think the level of deprivation in the community is linked to the schools capacity to best meet the children’s needs? You seemed to complain in one of your posts about the school handing out food parcels, but hungry children don’t learn. What do you want to happen? Because you bang on about schools stepping up but seem to be totally unable to make the link that the structural inequality that exists will influence how the education system is run and how kids will be treated as a result. Your only solution seems to be to look at the private system, which is only able to have the standards it does because those who attend are not worrying about whether there will be electric on tonight.

I have said in a number of posts what I think needs to happen. You are unable to hear it.

Also, guess what, even if I don’t have every answer, I’m STILL allowed to question the current abject failure of my sons school response.

 

[purenarcotic]

I have said in a number of posts what I think needs to happen. You are unable to hear it.

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

 

[Edie]

Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Are you able to read this post, and regardless of whether you agree or not, recognise that it contains suggestions on how I think education needs to change?

Clearly no. There should be a national curriculum but beyond that Teachers should be allowed to teach as they see fit. They should have responsibility for the kids in their class, including letting parents know how their kid is doing once a term, with a single meaningful sentence. The performance of the school should be the Headteachers concern, not the parents. And wider Social care and food parcels should not be the responsibility of school.

I have also made it clear that I wish to get rid of performance driven league tables. Questioned whether we should abolish private schools. Argued that state schooling should aim to deliver Cultural Capital as private schools do. And stated repeatedly that parents of state schools- including, in fact especially, of failing state schools- have the right to criticise them.

Yet you ask me what do I want to happen? I’ve told you. You just can’t hear. Why is that?