Re-opening Schools?

[Thora]

From what I've seen schools know that 2m social distancing is impossible and are planning on that assumption.

Tbf the guidance also recognises that, at least for nursery and primary, and the emphasis is on keeping bubbles separate from each other rather than distancing within the bubbles.

 

[andysays]

I wouldn't know about that.

But it's something when "common sense" is to hurl people into the midst of a plague.

It's not something she's taken great pains to hide. Those factories aren't going to staff themselves.

 

[chilango]

Tbf the guidance also recognises that, at least for nursery and primary, and the emphasis is on keeping bubbles separate from each other rather than distancing within the bubbles.

Yep. I think similar is being planned in (some) Secondaries too.

 

[flypanam]

...'cos private schools are shit scared that parents won't pay if they're not open, they're under plenty of pressure to open asap.

Fuck, they will only be open for 4 weeks then it’s the 8 week summer break.

 

[Thora]

I'm pretty torn on the schools issue. I really have no idea whether it is "safe enough" to go back now, I don't know/understand the science.

I can see why some teachers, especially vulnerable teachers, are really worried about going back to work. I was also surprised they chose to send the youngest back - I was expecting 10, 12 and maybe 6.

I do think the bubbles should be smaller, max 10 in primary, 6-8 in nursery. That would mean school would have to be part time or rota'd which wouldn't help with childcare, but even if classes are back 9-3 schools will be unlikely to provide wraparound care as they'd still have to keep children in their bubbles, and childminders are being told not to collect children from school.
School should be about contact with teachers and peers at the moment, not childcare.

Also though I've had to continue working throughout with 5 children from 4 key worker families, with no distancing or PPE, so children going into a group of 15 at school doesn't seem hugely more risky.

My own children will go back to school in June/July if they can.

 

[chilango]

Fuck, they will only be open for 4 weeks then it’s the 8 week summer break.

Some have talked of extending their terms though.

 

[planetgeli]

Simplistic, laughably so.

There are very serious concerns about putting 30 snotting, touching, crying kids in a room - and we won't be doing it - but there are also huge concerns that very large numbers of children (and often the children at the bottom end of the socioeconomic pile, and often the kids with SEN) have had no education, very poor diet, and little exercise for 2 months, and if they don't go back to school till September 7 months.

do you think that will have no impact on their already compromised life chances?

My wife, who is a junior school teacher and SENCO, is frantic about at least a dozen of the children in her school: they are almost all SEN, almost all on the 'at risk' register, and either live in conditions of significant depravation or sub-optimal parenting. She is desperate to get these children back into school, or anywhere safe where they will be fed, educated, looked after and have their needs attended to - one child with severe autism lives in what her headteacher calls 'a rape den' with a dozen or so randoms and a mother who's a heroin addict and prostitute. The child has almost certainly not had a hot meal since March, and may still be wearing her school uniform. The same one.

Most of these kids have not submitted one piece of work in two months, or had any contact with the school or specialist support services.

If you think this issue is a simple black and white one with right one one side and profit on the other, you are as ignorant, as dogshit thick as some utter cunt in the Mail honking off about lazy teachers.

If only the issue were as black and white as you make it kebabking. Yes, I know that sounds like the beginning of a "When I were a lad we used to dream of living in middle of motorway" reply but forgive me, for when it comes to bottom of the socio-economic pile, working in mental health in a PRU, I think I might have something to say.

Our kids have been kicked out of education, often unfairly, have nothing so grand as a 'diet', spend their lives upstairs on playstations to avoid abuse, appear on every register you can think of, live in abject poverty and with no parenting whatsoever. A hell of a lot have suffered sexual abuse or other physical abuse, many are heroin babies or the sons and daughters of drug dealers. They wear the same clothes EVERY day and love coming to our school - having been thrown out of mainstream - because it's somewhere they meet wellbeing and safeguarding for the first time in their lives.

I would love to go 'back to normal' with them. But it's simply not sensible to right now.

In the meantime...hot meals you say? Yep, none of them get hot meals at home. And you know what? None of them get hot meals in school either. We have no proper kitchen, no kitchen staff, and absolutely no provision for hot meals. Once a week the wellbeing officer takes it on himself to cook for them. It's not practical to do it once a week, let alone five days a week, but he tries.
The school is a condemned primary school 100 years old. With asbestos. We were meant to be there 2 years, its now been 3. This is typical of how Local Authorities think about the bottom of the socio-economic pile.

Most of these kids have not submitted one piece of work in two months, or had any contact with the school or specialist support services.

The first bit doesn't concern me at all if we are talking about kids at the bottom of the socio-economic pile. Because that is normal. Yes it is. In my school anyway, which is where the "dream of living in middle of motorway" relevance kicks in. If we really are talking the bottom of the pile, like I've described my kids, then of course, it would be lovely to think they could do some work (and some of my kids have been doing work, just very few of them, via the school website where dedicated teachers have uploaded modules for parents to download). But tbh, the main concern is their wellbeing and safeguarding, where the emboldened bit comes in. And frankly I'm shocked that you say neither the school nor specialist support services have had contact with the kids. Perhaps, in mainstream, it isn't the duty of the school to stay in contact, though frankly I'd argue people like your wife have a moral obligation to try. But no contact from specialist support services? No social workers? I find that hard to believe. Regardless, in our school, though there is no statutory obligation on our behalf, our 'schoolpod' (computer system) is chocka full with details of contacts between staff and vulnerable pupils every day. Because it's all we can do right now. So we make sure we bloody well do. Every member of staff has 2-4 pupils for which they are keyworkers. We make sure we contact these kids 2/3/4 times a week and record what is happening.

It may seem a poor substitute but it's a lot more than you describe is happening, and while we can't, and shouldn't go back to work risking vulnerable staff's lives, it's what we will continuie to do. Many of us are in touch with key outside agencies and support services as well as our kids. We are not sitting at home 'swanning around' however I might have made light of this in other threads. Nobody feels like they're on holiday.

I'd suggest, bearing in mind what I've written, there are bigger issues need addressing in provision for those at the bottom of the pile and that these issues were there before Covid and will be there after Covid. Proper funding for PRUs, SEN kids and kids with severe emotional problems and needs from 'the bottom of the pile'. Simply going back to school is not therefore going to solve these problems. And not going back to school, to go back to where this started with the Edie post, is not a disproportionate response to the virus. It's there to save lives of vulnerable staff members who work their hearts out with the most vulnerable of children - and are still doing so, unseen to many, all, of you lot.

 

[chilango]

Fwiw my daughter is desperate to get back to school to see her friends. She's in tears at some point most days about it. I'm sure she's not the only one.

 

[flypanam]

Some have talked of extending their terms though.

I’m not opposed to the state experimenting on private schools as long as the rest remain in the control group.

 

[chilango]

I’m not opposed to the state experimenting on private schools as long as the rest remain in the control group.

Joking aside, there are many powerful people in the State (sic) sector who slavishly ape the private sector in the belief that it's the route to "success".

There'll be Academy bosses as we speak floating the idea of staying open over Summer or in the Evening.

 

[flypanam]

Yeah I know I think the Oasis academy are talking about opening early. One of those free schools which will be at the forefront of the push to open.

 

[Athos]

Joking aside, there are many powerful people in the State (sic) sector who slavishly ape the private sector in the belief that it's the route to "success".

There'll be Academy bosses as we speak floating the idea of staying open over Summer or in the Evening.

I suspect they'll be strong calls for a 'compromise' of staying open later in the day, now, rather than 'having' to open in the summer. I.e. so parents can work longer days, and by the time the sumer hols come around we've have relaxed lockdown to allow childcare/grandparents to do it.

 

[kebabking]

Yep. I think similar is being planned in (some) Secondaries too.

Mrs K's school has decided that reception and year 1 will not be going back (governors meeting till 11.45 last night), year 6 will, but in pods of 7. Staff (1 teacher, 1 TA, 1 lunchtime supervisor) will stick that pod and not go near any others. VC and key workers kids (I don't think the categories have changed?) will be seperate pods, with renewed efforts to get VC kids in.

There's an absolute cap on numbers - if VC and and key workers kids numbers go up, then Y6 numbers will go down, and the whole school will close completely on Wednesdays for a deep clean.

Apparently most of the other schools in the borough are working along similar lines - depends on physical space, staffing etc...

 

[Thora]

The government guidance is that where schools can't accommodate all the children, they must prioritise the youngest. I wonder what the government will actually do if schools choose not to open at all or not for younger children though? How can they actually enforce it.

 

[Indeliblelink]

...'cos private schools are shit scared that parents won't pay if they're not open, they're under plenty of pressure to open asap.

Plus they get the highest fees from those who board.

 

[PursuedByBears]

Fwiw my daughter is desperate to get back to school to see her friends. She's in tears at some point most days about it. I'm sure she's not the only one.

My 6-yr old son is the same

 

[Celyn]

...
don't remember hay-making being an opportunity in the summer holidays in 1970s lewisham

Not that much of it in 1970s Glasgow either. The sensible reason for the school term ending in late June is because they do it for my birthday. Oh yes it is. I will brook no disagreement!

(Self-centred? ME? . )

and the university term ended in late June to make us miss Glastonbury.

 

[Celyn]

I’m honestly wondering if the fear of covid is getting completely disproportionate to the actual risk.

It is hard to know the actual risk even for statistical geniuses and health professionals. I mean, I feel bad not seeing my Dad, but what with him being 85, diabetic, overweight, not terribly healthy and the way of getting there being taxi or taxi plus buses, it does seem a bit risky. Still, that's a bit of a derail from schools. Sorry.

 

[Edie]

How do you feel about the 5 tests from NEU. They seem essential to me.

Sorry for delay. They seem sensible but certainly the first is so woolly as to not be much use. What’s your feeling?

 

[ska invita]

Sorry for delay. They seem sensible but certainly the first is so woolly as to not be much use. What’s your feeling?

I'll go with the British Medical Association on this:

"The British Medical Association has thrown its weight behind teaching unions opposing the government’s push to reopen schools in England, as the debate over millions of pupils returning to classrooms grew increasingly acrimonious.

... the BMA – the UK’s largest doctors’ union – said in a letter to the National Education Union on Friday that the number of coronavirus infections remained too high to allow them to run safely. Teaching unions had been “absolutely right” to urge caution and prioritise testing before reopening schools on 1 June."



Its the governments job to get this in place

 

[kenny g]

To be honest I trust the BMA position very little. This is a case of a middle class interest group rallying around another middle class interest group.

Every child deserves to be able to go to school.

many are heroin babies or the sons and daughters of drug dealers.

Could be said in lots of socio-economic areas. It is where the children are in poverty (i.e. the parents are low level/ unsuccessful drug dealers) that the impact is that much greater.

Even in prosperous areas many children are neglected by crap parents stuck to the bottle. School is a place where children can escape parents. Teachers have a responsibility to get back to work.

 

[Pickman's model]

Every child deserves to be able to go to school.

every child deserves to go to school without risking contracting or carrying a disease for which there is neither immunity nor cure

 

[Pickman's model]

Its the governments job to get this in place

That's fucked then

 

[Thora]

Our CEO has said they will be opening in June for YR,1, 10 & 12 for only 2 days a week.

 

[planetgeli]

Could be said in lots of socio-economic areas. It is where the children are in poverty (i.e. the parents are low level/ unsuccessful drug dealers) that the impact is that much greater.

Yeah. Did you miss the first part of the sentence you're quoting?

live in abject poverty and with no parenting whatsoever. A hell of a lot have suffered sexual abuse or other physical abuse, many are heroin babies or the sons and daughters of drug dealers.

I don't have time for people who can't read but still try to argue a point.

 

[kenny g]

Yeah. Did you miss the first part of the sentence you're quoting?



I don't have time for people who can't read but still try to argue a point.

Not sure who the argument is coming from here apart from your good self. Assuming you are a teacher it is interesting you don't have time for people who can't read... or that you choose that slur...

 

[planetgeli]

Not sure who the argument is coming from here apart from your good self. Assuming you are a teacher it is interesting you don't have time for people who can't read... or that you choose that slur...

I'm not a teacher. Keep trying. Because you obviously never read my post properly, just jumped in.

 

[Mattym]

If only the issue were as black and white as you make it kebabking. Yes, I know that sounds like the beginning of a "When I were a lad we used to dream of living in middle of motorway" reply but forgive me, for when it comes to bottom of the socio-economic pile, working in mental health in a PRU, I think I might have something to say.

Our kids have been kicked out of education, often unfairly, have nothing so grand as a 'diet', spend their lives upstairs on playstations to avoid abuse, appear on every register you can think of, live in abject poverty and with no parenting whatsoever. A hell of a lot have suffered sexual abuse or other physical abuse, many are heroin babies or the sons and daughters of drug dealers. They wear the same clothes EVERY day and love coming to our school - having been thrown out of mainstream - because it's somewhere they meet wellbeing and safeguarding for the first time in their lives.

I would love to go 'back to normal' with them. But it's simply not sensible to right now.

In the meantime...hot meals you say? Yep, none of them get hot meals at home. And you know what? None of them get hot meals in school either. We have no proper kitchen, no kitchen staff, and absolutely no provision for hot meals. Once a week the wellbeing officer takes it on himself to cook for them. It's not practical to do it once a week, let alone five days a week, but he tries.
The school is a condemned primary school 100 years old. With asbestos. We were meant to be there 2 years, its now been 3. This is typical of how Local Authorities think about the bottom of the socio-economic pile.



The first bit doesn't concern me at all if we are talking about kids at the bottom of the socio-economic pile. Because that is normal. Yes it is. In my school anyway, which is where the "dream of living in middle of motorway" relevance kicks in. If we really are talking the bottom of the pile, like I've described my kids, then of course, it would be lovely to think they could do some work (and some of my kids have been doing work, just very few of them, via the school website where dedicated teachers have uploaded modules for parents to download). But tbh, the main concern is their wellbeing and safeguarding, where the emboldened bit comes in. And frankly I'm shocked that you say neither the school nor specialist support services have had contact with the kids. Perhaps, in mainstream, it isn't the duty of the school to stay in contact, though frankly I'd argue people like your wife have a moral obligation to try. But no contact from specialist support services? No social workers? I find that hard to believe. Regardless, in our school, though there is no statutory obligation on our behalf, our 'schoolpod' (computer system) is chocka full with details of contacts between staff and vulnerable pupils every day. Because it's all we can do right now. So we make sure we bloody well do. Every member of staff has 2-4 pupils for which they are keyworkers. We make sure we contact these kids 2/3/4 times a week and record what is happening.

It may seem a poor substitute but it's a lot more than you describe is happening, and while we can't, and shouldn't go back to work risking vulnerable staff's lives, it's what we will continuie to do. Many of us are in touch with key outside agencies and support services as well as our kids. We are not sitting at home 'swanning around' however I might have made light of this in other threads. Nobody feels like they're on holiday.

I'd suggest, bearing in mind what I've written, there are bigger issues need addressing in provision for those at the bottom of the pile and that these issues were there before Covid and will be there after Covid. Proper funding for PRUs, SEN kids and kids with severe emotional problems and needs from 'the bottom of the pile'. Simply going back to school is not therefore going to solve these problems. And not going back to school, to go back to where this started with the Edie post, is not a disproportionate response to the virus. It's there to save lives of vulnerable staff members who work their hearts out with the most vulnerable of children - and are still doing so, unseen to many, all, of you lot.

There's so much 'unseen' stuff going on. We have contacted all parents and whilst the majority of families seem ok, there are also quite a few horror stories that I've heard (don't want to go in to it here), which is so sad and going to cause permanent damage to said families and it's going to be a massive social battle not just due to these awful losses and the digital divide, (but particularly in schools in highly disadvantaged communities) getting pupils back to learning.

 

[kenny g]

I'm not a teacher.

Good.

 

[Mattym]

Teachers have a responsibility to get back to work.

Very few teachers would disagree with that, when it's safe to do so.