Re-opening Schools?

[ska invita]

I’m honestly wondering if the fear of covid is getting completely disproportionate to the actual risk.

Here are the NEUs 5 tests. Which are disproportionately fearful do you think?

Our five tests
We want to begin to reopen schools and colleges as soon as we can. But this needs to be safe for society, for children and their families and the staff who work in them.

We have these five tests which the Government should show will be met by reliable evidence, peer-reviewed science and transparent decision-making.

Test 1 : Much lower numbers of Covid-19 cases
The new case count must be much lower than it is now, with a sustained downward trend and confidence that new cases are known and counted promptly. And the Government must have extensive arrangements for testing and contact tracing to keep it that way.


Test 2 : A national plan for social distancing
The Government must have a national plan including parameters for both appropriate physical distancing and levels of social mixing in schools, as well as for appropriate PPE, which will be locally negotiated at school-by-school and local authority level.


Test 3 : Testing, testing, testing!
Comprehensive access to regular testing for children and staff to ensure our schools and colleges don’t become hot spots for Covid-19.


Test 4 : Whole school strategy
Protocols to be put in place to test a whole school or college when a case occurs and for isolation to be strictly followed.


Test 5 : Protection for the vulnerable
Vulnerable staff, and staff who live with vulnerable people, must work from home, fulfilling their professional duties to the extent that is possible. Plans must be specifically address the protection of vulnerable parents, grandparents and carers.

I’m honestly wondering if the fear of covid is getting completely disproportionate to the actual risk.

second highest death toll in the world last time i checked

 

[Steel Icarus]

I’m honestly wondering if the fear of covid is getting completely disproportionate to the actual risk.

The fact that millions of people have stayed in for seven weeks including school kids and still over 50,000 people have died in the UK from C19 makes you think there's been an overreaction?

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

I’m honestly wondering if the fear of covid is getting completely disproportionate to the actual risk.

I think you... well, you need to look at some numbers.

 

[gentlegreen]

second highest death toll in the world last time i checked

And "we" had the advantage of seeing others ahead of us and still blew it.

 

[Mattym]

In school last week, I worked out- If we are to keep the 2m distancing rule, it would mean that I could probably fit seven pupils in my classroom, if I, as the teacher, am also to benefit from the distancing.
Nine, at best, if I'm not granted such security.

 

[andysays]

The fact that millions of people have stayed in for seven weeks including school kids and still over 50,000 people have died in the UK from C19 makes you think there's been an overreaction?

But the needs of the economy must now take precedence.

 

[Thora]

Is a 2m distance really going to make much difference if you are spending 6 hours in a room with them anyway?

 

[Mattym]

Is a 2m distance really going to make much difference if you are spending 6 hours in a room with them anyway?

Arguably not, but it's been so drummed into our heads. I'm secondary, so it would more likely be an hour, rather than the whole day. In theory, secondary pupils should be able to distance themselves better than primary aged pupils, but I have seen no evidence of that whatsoever, when I've been in to school recently.

 

[kebabking]

But the needs of the economy must now take precedence.

Simplistic, laughably so.

There are very serious concerns about putting 30 snotting, touching, crying kids in a room - and we won't be doing it - but there are also huge concerns that very large numbers of children (and often the children at the bottom end of the socioeconomic pile, and often the kids with SEN) have had no education, very poor diet, and little exercise for 2 months, and if they don't go back to school till September 7 months.

do you think that will have no impact on their already compromised life chances?

My wife, who is a junior school teacher and SENCO, is frantic about at least a dozen of the children in her school: they are almost all SEN, almost all on the 'at risk' register, and either live in conditions of significant depravation or sub-optimal parenting. She is desperate to get these children back into school, or anywhere safe where they will be fed, educated, looked after and have their needs attended to - one child with severe autism lives in what her headteacher calls 'a rape den' with a dozen or so randoms and a mother who's a heroin addict and prostitute. The child has almost certainly not had a hot meal since March, and may still be wearing her school uniform. The same one.

Most of these kids have not submitted one piece of work in two months, or had any contact with the school or specialist support services.

If you think this issue is a simple black and white one with right one one side and profit on the other, you are as ignorant, as dogshit thick as some utter cunt in the Mail honking off about lazy teachers.

 

[ska invita]

Simplistic, laughably so.

There are very serious concerns about putting 30 snotting, touching, crying kids in a room - and we won't be doing it - but there are also huge concerns that very large numbers of children (and often the children at the bottom end of the socioeconomic pile, and often the kids with SEN) have had no education, very poor diet, and little exercise for 2 months, and if they don't go back to school till September 7 months.

do you think that will have no impact on their already compromised life chances?

My wife, who is a junior school teacher and SENCO, is frantic about at least a dozen of the children in her school: they are almost all SEN, almost all on the 'at risk' register, and either live in conditions of significant depravation or sub-optimal parenting. She is desperate to get these children back into school, or anywhere safe where they will be fed, educated, looked after and have their needs attended to - one child with severe autism lives in what her headteacher calls 'a rape den' with a dozen or so randoms and a mother who's a heroin addict and prostitute. The child has almost certainly not had a hot meal since March, and may still be wearing her school uniform. The same one.

Most of these kids have not submitted one piece of work in two months, or had any contact with the school or specialist support services.

If you think this issue is a simple black and white one with right one one side and profit on the other, you are as ignorant, as dogshit thick as some utter cunt in the Mail honking off about lazy teachers.

How do you feel about the 5 tests from NEU. They seem essential to me.

 

[andysays]

Simplistic, laughably so.

There are very serious concerns about putting 30 snotting, touching, crying kids in a room - and we won't be doing it - but there are also huge concerns that very large numbers of children (and often the children at the bottom end of the socioeconomic pile, and often the kids with SEN) have had no education, very poor diet, and little exercise for 2 months, and if they don't go back to school till September 7 months.

do you think that will have no impact on their already compromised life chances?

My wife, who is a junior school teacher and SENCO, is frantic about at least a dozen of the children in her school: they are almost all SEN, almost all on the 'at risk' register, and either live in conditions of significant depravation or sub-optimal parenting. She is desperate to get these children back into school, or anywhere safe where they will be fed, educated, looked after and have their needs attended to - one child with severe autism lives in what her headteacher calls 'a rape den' with a dozen or so randoms and a mother who's a heroin addict and prostitute. The child has almost certainly not had a hot meal since March, and may still be wearing her school uniform. The same one.

Most of these kids have not submitted one piece of work in two months, or had any contact with the school or specialist support services.

If you think this issue is a simple black and white one with right one one side and profit on the other, you are as ignorant, as dogshit thick as some utter cunt in the Mail honking off about lazy teachers.

That's not what I think, I was parodying the views of another poster.

I am aware that there are negative consequences for children not being at school, but I don't believe those are the main reason schools are being instructed to reopen.

 

[Steel Icarus]

Just to be pedantic lockdown to first week of September is five and a half months, over two months of which would have been at home anyway.

 

[Edie]

Simplistic, laughably so.

There are very serious concerns about putting 30 snotting, touching, crying kids in a room - and we won't be doing it - but there are also huge concerns that very large numbers of children (and often the children at the bottom end of the socioeconomic pile, and often the kids with SEN) have had no education, very poor diet, and little exercise for 2 months, and if they don't go back to school till September 7 months.

do you think that will have no impact on their already compromised life chances?

My wife, who is a junior school teacher and SENCO, is frantic about at least a dozen of the children in her school: they are almost all SEN, almost all on the 'at risk' register, and either live in conditions of significant depravation or sub-optimal parenting. She is desperate to get these children back into school, or anywhere safe where they will be fed, educated, looked after and have their needs attended to - one child with severe autism lives in what her headteacher calls 'a rape den' with a dozen or so randoms and a mother who's a heroin addict and prostitute. The child has almost certainly not had a hot meal since March, and may still be wearing her school uniform. The same one.

Most of these kids have not submitted one piece of work in two months, or had any contact with the school or specialist support services.

If you think this issue is a simple black and white one with right one one side and profit on the other, you are as ignorant, as dogshit thick as some utter cunt in the Mail honking off about lazy teachers.

Very well said. There’s this total black and white thinking about risk wrt covid, where somehow having a death rate that can have an actual daily confirmed Government figure placed on it completely overshadows perception of other risk.

Poverty kills. Domestic violence and child abuse results in deaths. Job losses are devastating. Economic collapse will undoubtably lead to loss of life.

The mortality in under 40s, even under 50s, from covid is very low. That needs to be recognised, and balanced against other real tangible risks of lockdown such as it is continuing.

It’s somewhat of a surprise to me that Unions (and the general thrust of argument on here) seems to be so short sighted of social inequality and poverty.

 

[Edie]

Just to be pedantic lockdown to first week of September is five and a half months, over two months of which would have been at home anyway.

Unless there is a vaccine in September (low possibility), what do you think will have changed to make it safer in order to offset the very real damage to the economy that will undoubtedly occur by then?

 

[ska invita]

Unless there is a vaccine in September (low possibility), what do you think will have changed to make it safer in order to offset the very real damage to the economy that will undoubtedly occur by then?

NEUs 5 tests introduced and all is well. Do you agree?

 

[Steel Icarus]

Unless there is a vaccine in September (low possibility), what do you think will have changed to make it safer in order to offset the very real damage to the economy that will undoubtedly occur by then?

I'm just concerned that a completely risky and unnecessary rush back to school is going to cause another spike in cases and lead to more avoidable illness and death.

 

[Mattym]

It’s somewhat of a surprise to me that Unions (and the general thrust of argument on here) seems to be so short sighted of social inequality and poverty.

They are unions for teachers and they exist to protect those teachers who pay them to do so. The 5 union safety guidelines are about getting everybody back into school, to be learning again and away from this great digital divide, so arguably, the unions are addressing it but want safety for all.

 

[spanglechick]

Simplistic, laughably so.

There are very serious concerns about putting 30 snotting, touching, crying kids in a room - and we won't be doing it - but there are also huge concerns that very large numbers of children (and often the children at the bottom end of the socioeconomic pile, and often the kids with SEN) have had no education, very poor diet, and little exercise for 2 months, and if they don't go back to school till September 7 months.

do you think that will have no impact on their already compromised life chances?

My wife, who is a junior school teacher and SENCO, is frantic about at least a dozen of the children in her school: they are almost all SEN, almost all on the 'at risk' register, and either live in conditions of significant depravation or sub-optimal parenting. She is desperate to get these children back into school, or anywhere safe where they will be fed, educated, looked after and have their needs attended to - one child with severe autism lives in what her headteacher calls 'a rape den' with a dozen or so randoms and a mother who's a heroin addict and prostitute. The child has almost certainly not had a hot meal since March, and may still be wearing her school uniform. The same one.

Most of these kids have not submitted one piece of work in two months, or had any contact with the school or specialist support services.

If you think this issue is a simple black and white one with right one one side and profit on the other, you are as ignorant, as dogshit thick as some utter cunt in the Mail honking off about lazy teachers.

How do you make the end of March to the start of September a gap of 7 months? I make it 5 and a half, tops. More than two months of which would have been the easter, half term and summer holidays.

I take your broader point, and honestly, my gut says "bring them all back in a fuck these half measures"... but then I have to let my brain have an opinion too.

 

[flypanam]

My missus a teacher says as soon as the private schools go back, she’ll consider going back.

 

[ska invita]

They are unions for teachers and they exist to protect those teachers who pay them to do so. The 5 union safety guidelines are about getting everybody back into school, to be learning again and away from this great digital divide, so arguably, the unions are addressing it but want safety for all.

The 5 Tests could be introduced quickly Id expect, even by the 1st June isnt impossible...?

 

[Sweet FA]

How do you feel about the 5 tests from NEU. They seem essential to me.

Me too.

And

Simplistic, laughably so.

There are very serious concerns about putting 30 snotting, touching, crying kids in a room - and we won't be doing it - but there are also huge concerns that very large numbers of children (and often the children at the bottom end of the socioeconomic pile, and often the kids with SEN) have had no education, very poor diet, and little exercise for 2 months, and if they don't go back to school till September 7 months.

do you think that will have no impact on their already compromised life chances?

My wife, who is a junior school teacher and SENCO, is frantic about at least a dozen of the children in her school: they are almost all SEN, almost all on the 'at risk' register, and either live in conditions of significant depravation or sub-optimal parenting. She is desperate to get these children back into school, or anywhere safe where they will be fed, educated, looked after and have their needs attended to - one child with severe autism lives in what her headteacher calls 'a rape den' with a dozen or so randoms and a mother who's a heroin addict and prostitute. The child has almost certainly not had a hot meal since March, and may still be wearing her school uniform. The same one.

Most of these kids have not submitted one piece of work in two months, or had any contact with the school or specialist support services.

If you think this issue is a simple black and white one with right one one side and profit on the other, you are as ignorant, as dogshit thick as some utter cunt in the Mail honking off about lazy teachers.

But

we can do both. We're really saying it's absolutely impossible to talk to and set eyes on our vulnerable children whilst keeping us all safe? I have children in not dissimilar situations to those you outline so I'm not totally ignorant of the challenges. I know your wife will have done the same and it's not perfect but we've done waved hellos from cars; calling family members; walking the dog round the estate etc etc. The children we really can't get to then it's next steps. That Mail headline really brought some divisions up today in the small group of 9 that were in my school which made me feel quite sad.

Anyway lager dog walk.

 

[Mattym]

The 5 Tests could be introduced quickly Id expect, even by the 1st June isnt impossible...?

Most of them could be, yes, but I suppose it's mainly down to number 1) and what the interpretation of 'much lower numbers of C19 cases' means. The government will have a completely different figure to the unions.

 

[ska invita]

That Mail headline really brought some divisions up today in the small group of 9 that were in my school which made me feel quite sad.

can you explain more?

 

[chilango]

I’m honestly wondering if the fear of covid is getting completely disproportionate to the actual risk.

Given the length of time that capital has allowed itself to be shutdown I'm more inclined to suspect we're not as fearful as we should be.

 

[chilango]

My missus a teacher says as soon as the private schools go back, she’ll consider going back.

June 1st then.

 

[chilango]

From what I've seen schools know that 2m social distancing is impossible and are planning on that assumption.

 

[chilango]

June 1st then.

...'cos private schools are shit scared that parents won't pay if they're not open, they're under plenty of pressure to open asap.

 

[andysays]

Given the length of time that capital has allowed itself to be shutdown I'm more inclined to suspect we're not as fearful as we should be.

It's hardly surprising this poster is keen to downplay the dangers and encourage people back to work, given her class position

 

[chilango]

It's hardly surprising this poster is keen to downplay the dangers and encourage people back to work, given her class position

I wouldn't know about that.

But it's something when "common sense" is to hurl people into the midst of a plague.

 

[Athos]

Simplistic, laughably so.

There are very serious concerns about putting 30 snotting, touching, crying kids in a room - and we won't be doing it - but there are also huge concerns that very large numbers of children (and often the children at the bottom end of the socioeconomic pile, and often the kids with SEN) have had no education, very poor diet, and little exercise for 2 months, and if they don't go back to school till September 7 months.

do you think that will have no impact on their already compromised life chances?

My wife, who is a junior school teacher and SENCO, is frantic about at least a dozen of the children in her school: they are almost all SEN, almost all on the 'at risk' register, and either live in conditions of significant depravation or sub-optimal parenting. She is desperate to get these children back into school, or anywhere safe where they will be fed, educated, looked after and have their needs attended to - one child with severe autism lives in what her headteacher calls 'a rape den' with a dozen or so randoms and a mother who's a heroin addict and prostitute. The child has almost certainly not had a hot meal since March, and may still be wearing her school uniform. The same one.

Most of these kids have not submitted one piece of work in two months, or had any contact with the school or specialist support services.

If you think this issue is a simple black and white one with right one one side and profit on the other, you are as ignorant, as dogshit thick as some utter cunt in the Mail honking off about lazy teachers.

Clearly, this Tory government's plan to get kids back to school is so that their parents have no 'excuse' not to go to work; the idea that they're motivated by concern for the most vulnerable would be laughable if it wasn't so grim. And, surely, there's better ways to protect those kids than a general return to school whilst the risks are so high?