Question Time tonight

[Sea Star]

For a party in decline they don't seem to be doing badly

Look at their votes through the decades. They've been declining since the 70s. This time they needed the Lib Dems to give them a majority and with an appalling performance from Labour, and major economic collapse, still couldn't get a majority! My view is that it's only the fact that Labour are so weak that keeps the Tories afloat!

 

[Awesome Wells]

Look at their votes through the decades. They've been declining since the 70s. This time they needed the Lib Dems to give them a majority and with an appalling performance from Labour, and major economic collapse, still couldn't get a majority! My view is that it's only the fact that Labour are so weak that keeps the Tories afloat!

It doesn't appear to be much of a decline; they had the most votes in 2010 - Hung Parliament notwithstanding.

 

[butchersapron]

It doesn't appear to be much of a decline; they had the most votes in 2010 - Hung Parliament notwithstanding.

No? Add 2010 where there vote didn't move from 2005 and you have long term secular decline.

 

[Sea Star]

It doesn't appear to be much of a decline; they had the most votes in 2010 - Hung Parliament notwithstanding.

From http://socialistreview.org.uk/376/ukip-and-crisis-conservatism
"An interesting recent paper written by the Labour MP Jon Trickett for Compass, The Conservative Dilemma, makes clear the extent of the problem. Trickett argues that, "surface tensions [in the Conservative Party] reflect the underlying decay of the Tories traditional social base". He shows there is a clear decline in the Conservative vote from around 55 percent of the electorate in 1931 to 35 percent in 2012. The Tories have not won a majority at a general election for over two decades now. In 1992, the last time the Conservatives managed a majority at a general election, John Major received 14.1 million votes (41.9 percent) - since then the Conservatives have never won more than 10.7 million. Conservative strategist Lord Ashcroft estimates that there are currently 8.2 million core "True Blue" voters - nowhere near enough to win a general election."

and that paper is here
http://www.compassonline.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Conservative_Dilemma.pdf

 

[Quartz]

The Tories have not won a majority at a general election for over two decades now.

In 1997 Labour hadn't had a majority in two decades.

 

[Sea Star]

In 1997 Labour hadn't had a majority in two decades.

But the paper describes a long decline from the 1930s. That wasn't true of Labour

 

[butchersapron]

In 1997 Labour hadn't had a majority in two decades.

But they had a popular vote that had increased markedly in size in every election from 1983 onwards - whereas the tories stayed around the same low 30%. And look beyond the last few elections if you want to look at historical patterns.

 

[brogdale]

But the paper describes a long decline from the 1930s. That wasn't true of Labour

Well...the bigger picture...

 

[Quartz]

But the paper describes a long decline from the 1930s. That wasn't true of Labour

brogdale beat me to it.

 

[JimW]

What we need is a revived Whig party of the left.

 

[Awesome Wells]

If the tory vote is shrinking, why on earth are both other main parties (ie lab and the yellow scum) hell bent on kowtowing to the same values?

 

[brogdale]

What we need is a revived Whig party of the left.

If you live in Vauxhall.....

 

[JimW]

If you live in Vauxhall.....

OK, OK I take it back

 

[brogdale]

If the tory vote is shrinking, why on earth are both other main parties (ie lab and the yellow scum) hell bent on kowtowing to the same values?

because they hold them too?

 

[treelover]

From http://socialistreview.org.uk/376/ukip-and-crisis-conservatism
"An interesting recent paper written by the Labour MP Jon Trickett for Compass, The Conservative Dilemma, makes clear the extent of the problem. Trickett argues that, "surface tensions [in the Conservative Party] reflect the underlying decay of the Tories traditional social base". He shows there is a clear decline in the Conservative vote from around 55 percent of the electorate in 1931 to 35 percent in 2012. The Tories have not won a majority at a general election for over two decades now. In 1992, the last time the Conservatives managed a majority at a general election, John Major received 14.1 million votes (41.9 percent) - since then the Conservatives have never won more than 10.7 million. Conservative strategist Lord Ashcroft estimates that there are currently 8.2 million core "True Blue" voters - nowhere near enough to win a general election."

and that paper is here
http://www.compassonline.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Conservative_Dilemma.pdf

Even 8 million is too many, voters who are prepared say to endorse, maybe even enjoy the savage cuts, increasing harassment of benefit claimants and for many condone the loss of life.

 

[brogdale]

O-Patz...the hard of thinking.

 

[weltweit]

Patterson and Hunt are planks ..

 

[The Pale King]

"the economy is doing well because of the hardworking businesses and entrepreneurs and wealth creators..."

Tristram Hunt MP just now on question time.

Now Caroline Lucas is quoting the CBI in defence of the EU.

I hate this show!

 

[Awesome Wells]

Lucas' comments I can understand.

For Hunt to say that (at which point I gave up and went to bed, only to wake an hour later convinced a giant spider was in my room - fucking politicians) was inexcusable.

Only the 'wealth creators businesses and entrpreneurs count? What about the nurses, shop floor wage slaves and paramedics and the like? Oh that's right, they are just servants - they bring nothing of value to the table.

Scum.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Patterson and Hunt are planks ..

Don't forget that poisonous barrel of treachery, 'baroness' kramer. Fucking reactionary old cow.

 

[Dogsauce]

If the tory vote is shrinking, why on earth are both other main parties (ie lab and the yellow scum) hell bent on kowtowing to the same values?

Because the electorate isn't who they serve. It's a case of convincing the electorate this is good for them rather than acting on the concerns of the general population.


Caught a bit of the end of it last night, Patterson is a proper awful old tory, the sort you thought was dying out and being replaced by shiny marketing people. His comment about 90,000 wind turbines being needed to replace nuclear, and saying 'where would we put them all'? It's less than 1 per square mile across the country, you thick twat (not even allowing for all those they can stick offshore).

 

[hot air baboon]

What we need is a revived Whig party of the left.

...would you let Michael Fabricant in though...?

....ooooh Whig Party....

 

[brogdale]

...would you let Michael Fabricant in though...?

....ooooh Whig Party....

I thought Tesco had promised not sell that Savile outfit this Halloween?

 

[SpookyFrank]

If the tory vote is shrinking, why on earth are both other main parties (ie lab and the yellow scum) hell bent on kowtowing to the same values?

Because they all get their 'ideas' from the same cesspool of lobbyists and think tanks. They're all pro-corporate neoliberal parties, the only thing they really differ on is the precise amount of corporate shafting they think the general public is willing to accept.

 

[Awesome Wells]

Because the electorate isn't who they serve. It's a case of convincing the electorate this is good for them rather than acting on the concerns of the general population.


Caught a bit of the end of it last night, Patterson is a proper awful old tory, the sort you thought was dying out and being replaced by shiny marketing people. His comment about 90,000 wind turbines being needed to replace nuclear, and saying 'where would we put them all'? It's less than 1 per square mile across the country, you thick twat (not even allowing for all those they can stick offshore).

I switched off when he started spewing, quite gleefully (look i'm on message!), that torried old 'labour ruined the economy' cliche.

Again the audience were against labour (rightly or wrongly); how can the opposition of the day have any responsibility for this EU bill we have to pay? This is purely down to the government aand how they handle it and whether they knew about it before everyone else, which they must have done. But again the Liam Byrne 'there's no money' letter was brought up and the usual local business tossers in the audience lapped it up.

THis is the second time now that something has been massively, and IMO unfairly, spun in the programme to blame Labour when it's entirely the fault of government.

 

[stavros]

Apparently, Tristram Hunt was a member of the Footlights at Cambridge, so his entire political career may well just be a satirical piss-take.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Mad Mel alert!!!

 

[weltweit]

Never heard of Brandon Lewis before....

 

[brogdale]

Never heard of Brandon Lewis before....

Great Yarmouth; he better enjoy the limelight whilst he can.

 

[Sirena]

They're not talking about things, though. They've settled into that cosy all-political-chaps-together consensus. Let's bicker a bit and not rock the boat too much.