(Prepare for) A Mighty Upsurge

[SpineyNorman]

the ISN one (its up on the site somewhere) is...amusing. It even admits the motions being passed are crap!

Maltby tho...sorry, but getting a couple of seats on a parish council dont really amount to much. I men,its nice, but...

It's not claiming that it is though is it? It's simply saying that this,

highlight that even in the most unlikely places we can find forums to fight the cuts.

Which is IMO perfectly true and reasonable - it's not gonna end austerity but young Joe has been able to use his position on the council to take the edge of some of the worst effects of the cuts for some people in Maltby. That's worth doing and it's worth pointing out that it can be done.

 

[SpineyNorman]

in SA, where your main insight seems to have come from a bloke on holiday...

Where on earth did you get this from

 

[belboid]

Where on earth did you get this from

"Alec Thraves, who has discussed with many workers while on visits to South Africa" - the other stuff is straight from the newspapers

 

[imposs1904]

the ISN one (its up on the site somewhere) is...amusing. It even admits the motions being passed are crap!

Maltby tho...sorry, but getting a couple of seats on a parish council dont really amount to much. I men,its nice, but...

Did someone mention the Parish Commune?

 

[SpineyNorman]

"Alec Thraves, who has discussed with many workers while on visits to South Africa" - the other stuff is straight from the newspapers

He's been over there - more than once - to help the CWI section over there. He was there during the miners strike, IIRC just before the massacre. And the insights come, indirectly, from comrades in SA. They don't come 'straight from the newspapers' at all - they come from people on the ground actually doing stuff.

You make it sound like some bloke in the SP went there on holiday and that's where the CWIs involvement in SA ends, with any analysis or commentary being a combination of his anecdotes and what the Guardian says. Which is obviously utter bollocks.

 

[dennisr]

"Alec Thraves, who has discussed with many workers while on visits to South Africa" - the other stuff is straight from the newspapers

And you feel there is some meaningful point to be made out of this. Pathetic and desperate.

The leading WASP campaigners include comrades who spent decades fighting apartheid - organising self-defence against murderous incatha thugs as well as state forces. They spent the last decade organising in some of the toughest workplaces - day-labourors in the docks, among the mineworkers etc. They arn't part of some mutual wanking talk-about-internationalism "international" love-in. The sort of fantasy internationalism your tradition represents.

OK, can't be arsed going through to each tedious belboid-led snide comment by snide comment (which will be what you do now) from here on in. Busy with work. I'll pop back every so often to read your latest cynical outpourings.

I think the writing is amateur and tediously breathless - but not as tedious as the non-points and non-arguments you are making out of it. I've watched people like you for decades - just poison.

 

[SpineyNorman]

I think the real criticism to be made here is the lack of any kind of open debate surrounding the question of whether race play is progressive or racist.

 

[cantsin]

Dave Reid, recently returned from a visit to Socialist Alternative (SA) in the US (see www.socialistalternative.org), co-thinkers of the Socialist Party, explained how the minimum wage has become a burning issue in the US.(quote)

I'm guessing that might explain why the Scots/Brits poppped up in speaking roles in this Brooklyn / $15 p/h min wage demo :

was wondering how/why

 

[imposs1904]

Dave Reid, recently returned from a visit to Socialist Alternative (SA) in the US (see www.socialistalternative.org), co-thinkers of the Socialist Party, explained how the minimum wage has become a burning issue in the US.(quote)

I'm guessing that might explain why the Scots/Brits poppped up in speaking roles in this Brooklyn / $15 p/h min wage demo :

was wondering how/why

The Irish woman in the clip is a longstanding member of SA/CWI in Brooklyn.

 

[belboid]

ou make it sound like some bloke in the SP went there on holiday and that's where the CWIs involvement in SA ends, with any analysis or commentary being a combination of his anecdotes and what the Guardian says. Which is obviously utter bollocks.

i apologise profusely for treating your absurdly hyperbolic congress report, which fails entirely to look at the massive setbacks we've had, with the same piss-taking attitude the rest of the left gets.

I can hardly blame dennis for walking away, who would want to defend such rubbish?

And if you think you're going to get a defense of the ISN being a vastly better way forward for the class, then you've clearly never read anything I've ever said about the ISN!

 

[dennisr]

I have to earn a living you tedious cunt

 

[Ax^]

mate, I kissed a girl last night. I've got to work this shit out one way or another.

bone her

HTH

 

[SpineyNorman]

i apologise profusely for treating your absurdly hyperbolic congress report, which fails entirely to look at the massive setbacks we've had, with the same piss-taking attitude the rest of the left gets.

I can hardly blame dennis for walking away, who would want to defend such rubbish?

And if you think you're going to get a defense of the ISN being a vastly better way forward for the class, then you've clearly never read anything I've ever said about the ISN!

I don't mind pisstaking - I'll even join in. And of course it's absurdly hyperbolic and ignores the set backs - they always are, whichever group they come from (with the exception of some of the microsects who take it in the opposite direction, resulting in an even more mental view on things).

What I'm not so keen on is deliberate misrepresentations. You know that's not true about SA as well as I do.

The raw materials of pisstaking are provided in abundance in that report so I don't really understand why you need to make shit up.

 

[belboid]

the raw materials of pisstaking are provided in abundance in that report so I don't really understand why you need to make shit up.

'seems to have come from a bloke on holiday' - hardly the grossest misrepresntation of all time. Implies (to me at least) a rather superficial view, which is all we got, I'm afraid. I do also trust people to actually read the link, which might be a mistake, I'll grant you.

 

[SpineyNorman]

'seems to have come from a bloke on holiday' - hardly the grossest misrepresntation of all time. Implies (to me at least) a rather superficial view, which is all we got, I'm afraid. I do also trust people to actually read the link, which might be a mistake, I'll grant you.

I probably wouldn't have read it if you'd not posted it on here to be honest

 

[frogwoman]

combustible social material ffs.

 

[belboid]

I probably wouldn't have read it if you'd not posted it on here to be honest

fair do's - are they always this wildly optimistic?

 

[SpineyNorman]

fair do's - are they always this wildly optimistic?

I don't know I've never read one before

 

[belboid]

I don't know I've never read one before

blimey, we had to pretty much read and rote learn all of our conference report backs when i was in the SWP, just to make sure we were up to speed on the latest line. Even tho it was nearly always exactly the same line as the year before. And the year before that...

 

[rekil]

In class struggle, oh yes. Any time now, it's really going to happen. It must be about to, I just read about it in Proletarian Democracy. At least, you'd think it was in PD, but actually it's the SP. There conference report back is just the most hilarious, utterly delusional, read you'll have this year. Whether it's the 'mighty upsurge in class struggle' about to happen or the claim that TUSC are about to breakthrough because a second bloke got elected unopposed in Maltby. Pretty much every section has something completely barking in it. Almost definitely no talk of intersectinality tho, as the pics are all of white blokes (and the blessed Hannah).

http://m.socialistparty.org.uk/arti...paring-for-a-mighty-upsurge-in-class-struggle

The calendar on the PD blog is very clear on the date for proper revolution.


And not a decimalised minute before.

 

[belboid]

The calendar on the PD blog is very clear on the date for proper revolution.

February? February??!! Bloody mensheviks

 

[rekil]

February? February??!! Bloody mensheviks

 

[barney_pig]

"Why the hell hasn't there been a revolution!", exclaimed Doncaster delegate Mary Jackson

 

[treelover]

How young people's lives have been destroyed by the cuts
If you were to line up every unemployed young person in Britain, they would stretch from London to Edinburgh. Here some of them explain how benefit cuts, unpaid work experience and vanishing career opportunities are wrecking their lives

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2014/mar/17/young-people-cuts-benefits-unemployment-housing

plenty of angry young people on this discussion, but absolutely no sense of how to change things.

 

[rekil]

"Why the hell hasn't there been a revolution!", exclaimed Doncaster delegate Mary Jackson

"determined fightback" is a good name for a mag.

 

[Nigel Irritable]

All cynical shite aside - although the English SP should get used to having more of that aimed at them now that they are the last left group of any note left - there is actually a fair point to make about the traditional British left approach to reporting events like this. If you string together all of the most "inspiring" or up beat bits of speeches and arguments from a long conference, without including the context of those "highlights" and without including references to difficulties, you end up giving a distorted picture of both the current political outlook and the discussions themselves. There are easy to see reasons why it's tempting to do it that way, but it ultimately doesn't do you any favours.

 

[emanymton]

Cringe inducing as I agree the piece is (and as all such pieces always are, no matter who they come from - bet the ISN's one is amazing!) no such claim - nor anything vaguely resembling it - is actually made is it?

Oh come on mate that bit is ridiculous getting elected unopposed shows nothing and means nothing.

 

[belboid]

All cynical shite aside - although the English SP should get used to having more of that aimed at them now that they are the last left group of any note left - there is actually a fair point to make about the traditional British left approach to reporting events like this. If you string together all of the most "inspiring" or up beat bits of speeches and arguments from a long conference, without including the context of those "highlights" and without including references to difficulties, you end up giving a distorted picture of both the current political outlook and the discussions themselves. There are easy to see reasons why it's tempting to do it that way, but it ultimately doesn't do you any favours.

headlining it with the comment that immediately brought to mind that David Steel quote doesn't help either.

An article like that should always try to pull the positive out of whatever the situation is, and accentuate the opportunities that there are, however few or many, bit it can't just be ra-ra, at best it's a little embarrassing, at worst it just leads to demoralisation and the rapid turnover of members - which was the SWP's stock in trade, 'never been a better time to be a socialist' etc etc

 

[DotCommunist]

of course the converse strategy of telling the truth- 'we're a group with a small but widely distributed network heavily involved in union and affiliated workplace and localist campaigns but with very little electoral success as yet' isn't really selling it or enthusing existing or potential new members.

and its not got enough references to comedians of yesteryear and bombs to be proper PD

 

[The39thStep]

I am off to Portugal mid April for two weeks. If it's any help I could do a bit of reporting for the Socialist Party and set up a sister organisation if I have time .After a few beers I can do 'wildly opyimistic' but to be honest i dont want to be stuck with some boring cunt discussing the ins and outs of third period Trotskyism. Is there a branch in Albufeira?