post-modernism, cultural relativity and identity politics - attitudes of progressives

[littlebabyjesus]

A friend of mine lived for a time in a women's separatist community in rural Yorkshire. Can't remember what it's called, but they have bought a bunch of adjoining farms and created a man-free environment. She ended up leaving after a few months, and was threatened physically when women there found out that she was heterosexual. I'd never heard of separatist feminists before my friend told me about them, and tbh they sound on the whole like a thoroughly dislikable bunch.

/irrelevant crap anecdote.

 

[danny la rouge]

A friend of mine lived for a time in a women's separatist community in rural Yorkshire. Can't remember what it's called, but they have bought a bunch of adjoining farms and created a man-free environment. She ended up leaving after a few months, and was threatened physically when women there found out that she was heterosexual. I'd never heard of separatist feminists before my friend told me about them, and tbh they sound on the whole like a thoroughly dislikable bunch.

/irrelevant crap anecdote.

Not irrelevant; back on topic, in fact.

 

[Idris2002]

back to the original topic, a mate of mine has posted something on facebook about a feminist convention which is refusing to allow transsexual people in (either born as men or women) and is hosting a speaker who advocates making sex changes etc illegal and treating transsexuality as a mental illness. Some bollocks about not being able to leave their privilege at the door.

i am a feminist, but i honestly do feel ashamed at some of the people who call themselves feminists at times

this makes me so fucking angry. what fucking privilege?

Is that their argument? trans people are "privileged"? How are they "privileged"?

 

[SpineyNorman]

Penises innit

 

[love detective]

trans people are "privileged"? How are they "privileged"?

they have (or had) more than one penis for a start

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Is that their argument? trans people are "privileged"? How are they "privileged"?

I guess, if you're born a woman, how dare you want to be a man. Traitor. And if you're born a man, don't you try and pretend you're not one of them.

 

[frogwoman]

Is that their argument? trans people are "privileged"? How are they "privileged"?

because they were once men (or want to be men) so they can never understand what it's like. bollocks. while i've experienced sexism i can't imagine it's anything comparable to what trans people have to go through on a daily basis.

 

[frogwoman]

A friend of mine lived for a time in a women's separatist community in rural Yorkshire. Can't remember what it's called, but they have bought a bunch of adjoining farms and created a man-free environment. She ended up leaving after a few months, and was threatened physically when women there found out that she was heterosexual. I'd never heard of separatist feminists before my friend told me about them, and tbh they sound on the whole like a thoroughly dislikable bunch.

/irrelevant crap anecdote.

wtf? that's terrible. But why was she living there in the first place?

 

[love detective]

eggsperiment

 

[littlebabyjesus]

wtf? that's terrible. But why was she living there in the first place?

She was staying with a friend - initially the only person who knew she wasn't a lesbian. Ironically, there was enormous pressure to conform to a particular image there, and she was constantly being hit on too. Sounds horrible. And she got out. I think she quite liked the idea of a women-only environment as an idea, but found it oppressive as a reality.

 

[JimW]

alleggory - missed one there danny

The Labour and Coop Party - the clue was in the name!

 

[ViolentPanda]

If the left outside of Labour was viable in electoral terms I wouldn't think that a Labour left was necessary. It's not an a priori belief, it follows from the conditions.

A not-insignificant reason for the non-viability of a non-Labour left lies at the feet of the Labour party itself, or at least the Labour heirarchy of the '80s and later that went along with a programme of demonisation of the non-Labour left in order to win Brownie points from the media and "big business". Remember Kinnock and his anti-Militant conference rant? Remember the silence of the majority of the parliamentary Labour party for ideological reasons when Thatcher shut down a successful Labour-led GLC for her own ideological reasons? Labour did as much to kill the credibility of left politics as anyone else. Why you believe that Labour can place itself as a focus for a credible left is beyond me and, I suspect, anyone with a smattering of recent political history.

I'm not clear why you think that a pro-working class politics precludes any involvement in the Labour party, however critical and distanced from its current policy and practice...

1) It doesn't have the drive to support a pro-working class politics.
2) It doesn't have the necessary mechanisms for a pro-working class politics to shape the party's theory or policy.
3) It doesn't have a parliamentary membership that will tolerate a pro-working class politics.

I don't uncritically equate trade union money with left wing pressure. At all. I said it was a point of potential leverage. Which it is, but the likes of Prentis need a fucking rocket up them. I'm not blase about the chances of success. They are not great, and certainly puting all the eggs in the Labour basket is a very bad idea.But the alternative to trying to work inside and outside Labour to build the conditions for left realignment from a position of greater strength is, what?....sitting on your arse and just taking the piss from time to time?

You presuppose that none of us work outside Labour. You presuppose that we criticise you because you're "doing something". Well, I don't. I criticise you because what you propose cannot work with the current political consensus under which your party functions, and because it's highly unlikely that even a radically-activist membership could force enough change for what you propose to work.

 

[love detective]

The Labour and Coop Party - the clue was in the name!

beggars can't be choosers

 

[ViolentPanda]

Penises.

Personally I blame Rudimentary Peni for the confusion.

 

[articul8]

One thing that I've never figured out - what is the plural of penis? Is it penises or penii or summat?

Tories, innit

 

[frogwoman]

What annoys me as well is people who say calling a man a cunt is oppressive towards women, i can understand it has a different connotation if it's used to a woman but i say "bollocks" all the time when things go wrong, does that mean im being oppressive towards men lol

 

[frogwoman]

"Oh bollocks!"
"Why are you repressing me "

 

[bamalama]

What annoys me as well is people who say calling a man a cunt is oppressive towards women, i can understand it has a different connotation if it's used to a woman but i say "bollocks" all the time when things go wrong, does that mean im being oppressive towards men lol

Aye,nobody's ever been able to explain this to me properly.I've heard it was mainly a usa feminist thing,but i don't know...

 

[frogwoman]

ive been told off for calling people (men) cunts before by women, and im a woman myself. dont understand it.

 

[SpineyNorman]

"Oh bollocks!"
"Why are you repressing me "

I can feel a PD poster coming on!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

ive been told off for calling people (men) cunts before by women, and im a woman myself. dont understand it.

I have to catch myself. I think it's the fault of this place - must remember not to say 'cunt' at work.

If a woman tells you off, just tell her not to be such a prick.

 

[frogwoman]

it does have a different connotation when said to/about a woman tho.

 

[frogwoman]

I can feel a PD poster coming on!

Do it!

 

[littlebabyjesus]

it does have a different connotation when said to/about a woman tho.

ime it's not really used to/about women in the UK, though.

 

[bamalama]

I used to have a woman friend who'd slap me every time i said it in her company!

 

[past caring]

I used to have a woman friend who'd slap me every time i said it in her company!

And how much did she charge for her other services?

 

[bamalama]

And how much did she charge for her other services?

I reckon i should've been charging her...she seemed to enjoy it way too much