Pop and Rock Stars... and underage girls

[8den]

Because looking at an image of an actor in costume is the same as watching how a real person speaks and acts in person

One of those actors claimed to be 18 when cast. She spent more than a few weeks surrounded by Producers, Crew and Co Stars before they discovered she was 14.

Still think this is cut and dry?

 

[comrade spurski]

I think the point that you missed is that some girls don't look and act their age.


Quick quiz and don't google



Which one of these actors arent age appropriate.

In all of those photos one actor is either playing someone much younger or much older than their actual age. Can you spot them without googling?

I have no idea where to begin with this post. I have no idea what point you think you are making but it comes across as a "but they were jail bait".

 

[comrade spurski]

One of those actors claimed to be 18 when cast. She spent more than a few weeks surrounded by Producers, Crew and Co Stars before they discovered she was 14.

Still think this is cut and dry?

Yes it is cut and dry...the producers, crew and co stars were thick as shit...or wilfully ignorant.

 

[N_igma]

One of those actors claimed to be 18 when cast. She spent more than a few weeks surrounded by Producers, Crew and Co Stars before they discovered she was 14.

Still think this is cut and dry?

Dude you're shifting the responsibility onto the child. That's not cool.

 

[8den]

I have no idea where to begin with this post. I have no idea what point you think you are making but it comes across as a "but they were jail bait".

Actually no at least two of those actors were in their late 20s and happily blended in with actors ten or more years younger than them. Two actors are playing characters several years older than they were at the time.

 

[8den]

Dude you're shifting the responsibility onto the child. That's not cool.

I'm really not. I think sleeping with someone underage is reprehensible and wrong and the adult has a duty of care. However I think there is a difference between someone genuinely not knowing that the person they are with is underage, and someone who is actively pursuing and attracted to children.

 

[Thora]

Is it really that hard to avoid fucking under age girls 8den? You make it sound like it could happen to anyone, but most adult men surely aren't in the position of saying "oops she looked 16" because they aren't trying to fuck 16 year olds?

 

[comrade spurski]

Actually no at least two of those actors were in their late 20s and happily blended in with actors ten or more years younger than them. Two actors are playing characters several years older than they were at the time.

Who gives a shit if people look young for their age. This is a simple argument. ..
Is it ok for adults to have sex with under aged children? No it fucking ain't is the only response acceptable.
There are no blurred lines...under aged children are easy to recognise when you speak to them.
I have no idea what point you think you are making but you are coming across as justifying adults having sex with under aged children cos its hard to tell how old some children are...and that, to me, is disturbing

 

[LiamO]

lbj seems to think we can't use the fact shagging young girls is illegal to judge him because you know, it's a blurry area, and anyway the age of consent for guys was higher then so the law is an ass.

Don't think anyone is promoting that line in this case - except the fool 8den (who still chooses to ignore that the young girls were all plied with various narcotics too) .

I think any number of people are saying (rightly IMO) that there is a world of difference between running around trying gto get into the knickers of young teenagers and raping little kids.

The former does not exactly win you moral brownie points but the latter is despicable.

One of my main reasons for starting this thing was the fact that now we have a suitably-iconic, recently departed Artist in the frame, people who would normally be charging around calling everybody who disagrees withthem 'apologists' are suddenly keen on nuance. their postings on this thread will serve as reminders if they ever indulge in that again.

Others have been entirely consistent which, whether you agree or disagree with them, is honest and straight-up. There have been some really good posts on here. My favourite is Patteran's, although he was more talking about Bowie's political rather than sexual exploits.

 

[8den]

Is it really that hard to avoid fucking under age girls 8den? You make it sound like it could happen to anyone, but most adult men surely aren't in the position of saying "oops she looked 16" because they aren't trying to fuck 16 year olds?

Most adult men aren't a 70s rock star and Maddox clearly wasn't a typical 15 year old girl.

I'm going to refer you to Felixthecat's post on the previous page

 

[LiamO]

I know at least one former nightclub owner in a small city - and several bouncers/DJs - who live in daily terror of the early morning knock these days. I'm pretty sure that the reason he has never been lifted is that the cops were complicit at the time.

Once they stopped his fancy sports car at 4am, with a very drunk 13/14 yr old in the passenger seat. He would be in his early 30's at the time and was very blatant about shagging wee girls - especially virgins. They took two actions.

1. They took her home.

2. They approached his daddy and told him up straight to get the creepy fella into line or they would be taking the Licenses away for both their niteclubs.

'Get to 'em before every other cunt does' was something he would say openly and regularly. Some of the Bouncers (including one particualarly dangerous individual) were itching to batter him, but no-one did.

 

[existentialist]

I agree. But purely citing the law forgets that the law at the time didn't agree. The law at the time saw a 19 year old man as not able to consent to homosexual sex.

And that's why I think the law is somewhat incidental to this discussion: those who invoke it as the main point seem to be doing so in order to be able to make categorical statements about the fucked-upness of things. Which rather ignores the nuances of the issue - such as the point you make here.

 

[existentialist]

The iconic 71-year-old Led Zeppelin guitar god was spotted walking hand in hand in London with Scarlett Sabet, a 25-year-old actress.

Creepy fact: Page has a 44-year-old daughter. She's a photographer ... named Scarlet.

Jimmy Page -- Getting His Led Out ... With a 25-Year-Old! (PHOTO)

...OK obvs not under-age but still...

*shrug* I imagine that she was there of her own free will. And money, fame and power are great aphrodisiacs.

 

[8den]

Who gives a shit if people look young for their age. This is a simple argument. ..
Is it ok for adults to have sex with under aged children? No it fucking ain't is the only response acceptable.
There are no blurred lines...under aged children are easy to recognise when you speak to them.
I have no idea what point you think you are making but you are coming across as justifying adults having sex with under aged children cos its hard to tell how old some children are...and that, to me, is disturbing

Are these female posters on this thread disturbing?

FWIW there's several rock stars I 'd have shagged as an underage schoolgirl. As a happily married 37 year old mother of two I'd still shag them. I know the bigger picture is much more than that but on a personal level it wouldn't have bothered me one bit.

I was not aware of any stories about Bowie having sex with 13/14 year old girls in the 70s, despite being one of the 13/14 year old girls who met him at the time.

One of my girlfriends threw herself at him after a gig, trying to get a kiss, and bloodied his nose. So he decided he couldn't come back to Friars Aylesbury again because he had become a bit of a star, and there just wasn't any security.

I have honestly never heard that he was one of the known stars to be having underage sex. I certainly was aware at the time of several stars who known for it, but he was not one of them.

In the 70s a lot of girls I was at school with had older boyfriends. My sister was 14 and her boyfriend was 20.

I'm not condoning it but there's a massive difference between that and being a serial rapist

I know 13 and 14 year olds who did just that. Threw themselves at Bowie. In the early 70s.

And were rejected by him.

Not that that proves anything, but it is as relevant as anything on this thread.

I had sex with an at the time up and coming rock star who went on to become a bit of a superstar 2 weeks after my 16th birthday. Was there ever any question of me being underage? Nope. I was obviously young but how young was clearly never considered by him. Would the same thing have happened if the gig had been a month earlier? If I had anything to do with it damn right it would have. Was I coerced? Hell no. Was I swayed by the fact he fronted a band? Hell yes, of course. Were drugs and alcohol involved? Errr... yes.
I dunno where I'm going with this really. I suppose I was taken advantage of but I don't think I was in anyway damaged by it. I suppose he should have known better but I wasn't behind the door in coming forward myself. I guess there is a very, very blurry line somewhere...

 

[Cid]

Are these female posters on this thread disturbing?

No. The men who slept with them might be.

 

[boohoo]

The legal age of consent is there for a reason.

It was raised to 16 in 1885 as part of the Criminal Law Amendment as protection at the time from children being sold into prostitution. The idea was very much campaigned for by the social purity movement who believed in abstinence from sex for both men and women - until marriage. This amendment also made any homosexual engagement between men illegal.

Different countries have different ages of consent. Who is right?

I do think if a bloke thinks a young woman is under age, he is best to avoid her advances. However I knew a 12 year olds who have convinced an 18 yr olds that she are 16. And a couple of 15 yr olds girls who were working through the 18/19 year olds. And one girl in sixth form who liked older men - she was 17 seeing a 30 year old - she is married to Dr Fox now (same age gap)

It's complex. Young women - especially the school girl look are seen as attractive - the virgin who is up for it.

 

[8den]

No. The men who slept with them might be.

Thats is entirely possible.

Consider our OP btw, he freely admits that when he was underage he had sex with a woman who knew he was underage, and yet had sex with him anyway, is she disturbed? A rapist? A sex criminal? (we'll leave my dig about any woman who has sex with LiamO unsaid, but presumed implied).

 

[Cid]

Thats is entirely possible.

Consider our OP btw, he freely admits that when he was underage he had sex with a woman who knew he was underage, and yet had sex with him anyway, is she disturbed? (we'll leave my dig about any woman who has sex with LiamO unsaid, but presumed implied).

I forget the details... mid teens and woman in 30s wasn't it? At any rate, yes, very probably.

 

[killer b]

the school girl look are seen as attractive - the virgin who is up for it.

by creeps and fucking pervs.

 

[N_igma]

It was raised to 16 in 1885 as part of the Criminal Law Amendment as protection at the time from children being sold into prostitution. The idea was very much campaigned for by the social purity movement who believed in abstinence from sex for both men and women - until marriage. This amendment also made any homosexual engagement between men illegal.

Different countries have different ages of consent. Who is right?

I do think if a bloke thinks a young woman is under age, he is best to avoid her advances. However I knew a 12 year olds who have convinced an 18 yr olds that she are 16. And a couple of 15 yr olds girls who were working through the 18/19 year olds. And one girl in sixth form who liked older men - she was 17 seeing a 30 year old - she is married to Dr Fox now (same age gap)

It's complex. Young women - especially the school girl look are seen as attractive - the virgin who is up for it.

Yes it is a complex issue but the general trend as we have seen in Spain is for the age to go upwards not downwards and this presumably is to remove all possibilities of manipulation.

Again, as others have pointed out. 17 year olds having sex with 14/15 years old is not the same as a greater age difference. 30 year old rock stars should know better. Maybe it was a one off indiscretion and he never done it again who knows but this thread has brought up some interesting points.

There's people out there willing to defend what he done but if it was someone else done the same thing they would be the first to cry 'nonce'. So that may very well point to something about the human psyche and the power of celebrity which is interesting.

 

[existentialist]

Yes it is a complex issue but the general trend as we have seen in Spain is for the age to go upwards not downwards and this presumably is to remove all possibilities of manipulation.

Again, as others have pointed out. 17 year olds having sex with 14/15 years old is not the same as a greater age difference. 30 year old rock stars should know better. Maybe it was a one off indiscretion and he never done it again who knows but this thread has brought up some interesting points.

There's people out there willing to defend what he done but if it was someone else done the same thing they would be the first to cry 'nonce'. So that may very well point to something about the human psyche and the power of celebrity which is interesting.

If you're suggesting that people on this thread are "willing to defend what he done", I think you're getting the wrong end of the stick. There are definitely people on here wishing to offer a more thoughtful interpretation of all aspects of the whole business - just because they aren't simply going "rock star sleeps with underage girl -> PERVERT -> It's all fucked up" doesn't mean they're excusing it.

 

[boohoo]

N_igma I am not defending what he did but I sometimes find this attitude to young women's sexuality patronising.

Some young women under the age of consent have no interest in sex, some do and would like to pursue it with a boy/girl from their peer group, some want a mature man who will quite likely be physically different to the youthful male friends, some might want full intercourse, others erotic fumblings, some want to snog their female friends or a mysterious sophisticated older lady. Some young women will act upon their urges - sometimes it will be an ace moment, sometimes not. Sometimes nothing will happen til they are legally old enough and all of this will exist in fantasy day dreams before that time. Some will be ready for that sexual awakening and others not.

men - don't overprotect the young ladies. Empower us to be able to say no. Empower us to be able to hear no and not see it as a rejection. Teach your young men and young women about consent.

 

[pogofish]

Yes it is a complex issue but the general trend as we have seen in Spain is for the age to go upwards not downwards and this presumably is to remove all possibilities of manipulation.

Again, as others have pointed out. 17 year olds having sex with 14/15 years old is not the same as a greater age difference. 30 year old rock stars should know better. Maybe it was a one off indiscretion and he never done it again who knows but this thread has brought up some interesting points.

There's people out there willing to defend what he done but if it was someone else done the same thing they would be the first to cry 'nonce'. So that may very well point to something about the human psyche and the power of celebrity which is interesting.

I don't know if its been covered already but it seems that California has one of the higher ages of consent in the US - Eighteen.

Their law there also seems to consider the age difference as well - With discretion given to someone within three years age difference, treating them less severely than someone over the three years different. The greatest severity however appears to be reserved for persons over twenty one having sex with under sixteens.

 

[N_igma]

N_igma I am not defending what he did but I sometimes find this attitude to young women's sexuality patronising.

Some young women under the age of consent have no interest in sex, some do and would like to pursue it with a boy/girl from their peer group, some want a mature man who will quite likely be physically different to the youthful male friends, some might want full intercourse, others erotic fumblings, some want to snog their female friends or a mysterious sophisticated older lady. Some young women will act upon their urges - sometimes it will be an ace moment, sometimes not. Sometimes nothing will happen til they are legally old enough and all of this will exist in fantasy day dreams before that time. Some will be ready for that sexual awakening and others not.

men - don't overprotect the young ladies. Empower us to be able to say no. Empower us to be able to hear no and not see it as a rejection. Teach your young men and young women about consent.

Yes I'm fully aware it's a rich tapestry. I mean we can all agree we were all teenagers at one point in our lives yes?

Of course people will have sexual awakenings at an earlier age than others but the point is that people of an adult age should know better. The older you are the more you realise this. Bowie should've realised this himself but he didn't. Also if drink and drugs were involved then it gets even murkier but I'm not fully aware of the details on this particular affair.

 

[comrade spurski]

Are these female posters on this thread disturbing?

Anyone who justifies adults sleeping with under aged children disturbs me cos in my opinion no one should justify adults having sex with under aged children.
Have no idea why you put those quotes in or tried to make a point about them being women...one said she shagged an up and coming pop star when she was 16, one said she knew under aged girls who threw themselves at Bowie (unsuccessfully) and another said they'd have shagged him when they were under aged.
None of them...as far as I can see. ..said it was ok for an adult to have sex with an under aged child so I can see no reason to be disturbed by their contributions

 

[8den]

Anyone who justifies adults sleeping with under aged children disturbs me cos in my opinion no one should justify adults having sex with under aged children.
Have no idea why you put those quotes in or tried to make a point about them being women...one said she shagged an up and coming pop star when she was 16, one said she knew under aged girls who threw themselves at Bowie (unsuccessfully) and another said they'd have shagged him when they were under aged.
None of them...as far as I can see. ..said it was ok for an adult to have sex with an under aged child so I can see no reason to be disturbed by their contributions

As has been pointed out that the age of consent in California is 18 or Spain 13. So depending on where that poster was it could have been illegal or perfectly acceptable (legally acceptable not morally)

Do you really think what Bowie did is as wrong as say Saville?

 

[existentialist]

Teach your young men and young women about consent.

This. If there is one thing that hasn't fundamentally changed since the 1970s, and may even be arguably worse now than it was, it's the consent problem. This time, the issue seems to be driven by the availability of porn on the 'net combined with a fairly hands-off approach to teaching about sexual behaviour in educational settings. But it comes down to the same thing in the end. While we are undoubtedly less tolerant of sexual abuse by peers or others than we were, we're still not doing a very good job of educating them out of it.

 

[8den]

This. If there is one thing that hasn't fundamentally changed since the 1970s, and may even be arguably worse now than it was, it's the consent problem. This time, the issue seems to be driven by the availability of porn on the 'net combined with a fairly hands-off approach to dealing with sexual behaviour in educational settings. But it comes down to the same thing in the end. While we are undoubtedly less tolerant of sexual abuse by peers or others than we were, we're still not doing a very good job of educating them out of it.

Yup....

"No Means Yes, Yes Means Anal" Frat Banned From Yale | Big Think

 

[existentialist]

Yup....

"No Means Yes, Yes Means Anal" Frat Banned From Yale | Big Think

 

[TopCat]

As has been pointed out that the age of consent in California is 18 or Spain 13. So depending on where that poster was it could have been illegal or perfectly acceptable (legally acceptable not morally)

Do you really think what Bowie did is as wrong as say Saville?

Saville is a straw man here. The pro Bowie integument seems to be:

• It's ok for a 30 year old man to have sex with a 13 year old girl
• He made brilliant music so we look for nuance
• When you are high on coke you are not responsible for what you say